gaius1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I disagree, Jay. What I mean by tonality for portraits can easily be seen by comparing the response curves - particularly the "shoulder". Compare FP4+ to say PanF+ and you will see immediately what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Guy, do you mean that FP4+ shoulders before PanF+? How does highlight compression translate to better tonality? You wrote that you couldn't recommend Delta films for portraits because " midtones are too compressed", but a look at the characteristic curve of Delta 100 shows a straight line response from shadows through highlights, while Delta 400 shoulders off a bit, more like FP4+. Where do you see midtone compression in these curves? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaius1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 OK, two things. Firstly the spectral sensitivity - Delta 100 is much "flatter" than FP4+, which has differing sensitivities at the red and blue end of the spectrum. Secondly, the "curve" of the characteristic curve is what give you your tonal separation. Delta 100 is as you say, linear, FP4+ gives me a wide range of tones in the skin, smooth transitions between them, and the toe and shoulder help preserve shadows and highlights. Delta 100 is undoubtedly a superior film for, say, architecture - but it is not as good as FP4+ for producing flattering portraits. Tonality may be subjective (like all aesthetics) but the underlying reasons for a film giving the tonality it does are pure science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaius1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 PS If you wanted to argue that Delta 100 didn't compress midtones rather that FP4+ expands them, I would say that's a reasonable interpretation :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Guy, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't understand what you mean when you say the differences in the spectral sensitivities of FP4+ and Delta 100 make Delta 100 "flatter". The extremely slight differences in these film's spectral sensitivities isn't significant enough for Ilford to recommend any differences in filter factors, and I don't believe these differences can be claimed to affect tonality in any meaningful way. I would be very interested in any support you could provide for your argument on this point. Regarding characteristic curves you write: "FP4+ gives me a wide range of tones in the skin, smooth transitions between them, and the toe and shoulder help preserve shadows and highlights." As the curves clearly illustrate, there are no differences in the curves for FP4+ and Delta 100 in the toes through the straight line portions of the curves, where skin tones fall. If we superimpose one curve on the other, they are identical in the toe regions through the straight line portions, and diverge only at the shoulder, where FP4+ shoulders off, and Delta 100 continues it's straight line. It should be said that the majority of FP4+'s shoulder occurs at densities above normal printing paper's exposure scale, and its effect is not very significant, but if we need to rely on a film's shoulder to control highlights, we're not in control of our process. I prefer to print my highlights with good separation, and not to muddy them with compression. FP4+ is an excellent film, but I don't subscribe to the differences you claim for it compared to films with a more linear curve, like Delta 100, and there is nothing in their curves to support your assertions, unless you simply prefer compressed highlights. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi guys, nice conversations about who has the best! Have you ever tried the ROLLEI IR 820/400 with ISO 200, just as a regular normal B&W film. It is promised, that this film will be 50% (!) better, than all the competitor's on the market! Give it a try! 35mm or 120, NO PROBLEM AT ALL, with the appropriate ROLLEI RHS or D76 developers! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi Wolf. 50% better in what regard? 50% sharper? 50% less grain? 50% more delicious? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi Jay, yes 50% better (solution, grain, tonality) than all other ISO 200 films from A - Z! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willscarlett Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Is Rollei IR the infrared film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaius1 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Sharper AND less grain? Wow. How's its contrast and exposure latitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willscarlett Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Wolf, where will the ROLLEI SCANFILM CN 400 PRO be available from in the USA - B&H, Freestyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 The only ISO 200 films I know about are Foma 200, and Forte 200, are there others? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi John-Paul! The brand new ROLLEI SCANFILM CN 400 PRO, should be available as 35mm and roll film 120 in the USA, around end of this year! Check with FREESTYLE L.A. and B&H! It's a SUPER film! On one side, he can be used as an regular C41 color film, but you can also make with regular B&W photo paper,perfectly your B&W prints from it. Because of the fact, that the film has no masking, he can be used also perfectly for scanning! I had a chance, to test one of the 120 prototype films at the Photokina, and I was really keen about the quality! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hello to ALL, Yes, the ROLLEI INFRARED 820/400 film, can also be used perfectly with ISO 200, as a regular B&W film. 160 Lp/mm super-sharp, fine grain, excellent tonality! In addition, the film can also be used as an substitute for the former AGFA SCALA, developed at dr5 in the USA! ALL I can say, try the film out by yourself, but do not process him in any other soup, than ROLLEI RHS or D76, as recommeded! Download the apppropriate development chart from www.rollei.com. It's not an secret anymore, that this film is also flown as an aerial film, by most of the NATO reconnaissance! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 So when will the price become more reasonable? Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi Larry! Look at TIFFANY's in N.Y., GOOD STUFF can not be cheap. Be a gourmet, and don't eat junk f(ilms)ood! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Sorry Wolf that Just won't cut it... Fine Arts are fine... Cement and plaster sell to those who live.... I think the Price is just on name alone selling second hand film I can get. Have you ever shot some Kodak 5222 it is a movie film.... I shoot the short ends..... roll my own.. alot of people still roll not Rollei their own.... I do like the fact you are keeping a brand name alive but.. Please ... soften the sales pitch. Does Phillip know you are an Ad Man? I bet he does.... Want a Corn Dog? Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf_rainer_schmalfuss Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi Larry! Sorry, you're wrong, I am not an Ad Man! I know the ROLLEI products well, based on conviction and own experiences! What is wrong with this, to let other interested people participating. The yellow KODAK stand at the Photokina was very large this year, as usually, known from every Photokina. But this year, there was a lot of smoke, but absolutely no fire! A big waste of money! Cheer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 OK Nuff said.. I still like you Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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