ray . Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Brad, nobody said it, but that's the feeling I got from the comments here; am I wrong? Maybe people are on vacation; do you know? Talentless or not- still doesn't excuse mean, abusive, hateful comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ray - Would you consider calling Brad a "moron" and saying his show of street photography was terrible and off-topic here is "abusive"? Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think the comment was that he was on her "moron's list," right? But OK, abusive enough. But the feud between Maria and Brad wasn't the central issue affecting people who seem to have left, was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ray, I don't know, but I don't think it's acting out on not being able to be rude to people people at will. That rarely happened on S&D, until the event a couple weeks ago, and, from an out of the blue insult here and there from a semi-regular on S&D that no one pays attention to anyway. I think some (like myself) feel it's just time to move on. The environment has changed, time for something else. And as you say, others will fill in. Images are still being shared, it's just more private. The event that Eric referenced certainly had some effect. Just the idea that someone could come here and slander without any consequences, and without an apology is disturbing. Interestingly, a month ago, someone (who was subsequently permanently banned) was slandering Eric on the wedding forum. While everyone and his brother was supporting Eric, for some selfish reason, AK applauded the slander (speaks volumes, doesn't it) and said he **deserved it**. Unbelievable... There was a core group that was into photos and photo-excellence more than anything else here. That's what was neat, it's now gone - what's the point? Just get tired of all the nonsense... www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Yeah, I forgot about Maria. Her behavior is pretty bizarre from time to time. You disagree with her on something innocuous, and you're on here s**t list forever and subject to childish insults (my show of photos being **pathetic** for example). Who needs that? www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 A guy with great photos gets banned for saying stuff nobody in their right mind should make excuses for- when the rules were layed out for everybody to read beforehand. Then people who were his buddies or enjoyed seeing his work here get pissed and leave. This is what it appears happened to me, and I still don't get the logic. As for you and Maria, I've gotten into it with some people too- probably difficult to avoid. It never made me feel like leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ray, I don't think anyone got pissed and left over Ed's leaving. And I'm certainly not letting Maria's childishness run my life. What you're seeing though is a confluence of many things. Same thing happened on photocritique a few years ago - just time to move on and do something different. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doris_chan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 "Talentless. Yep, sorry. Sorry Al if you're reading this; that's just my opinion. Didn't intended to make it sound like an insult." I'm not sure why everybody gets hung up on the (admittedly bizarre) behavior of one strange old guy with probably little else going on his life. Sure, he's not a great photographer, but then neither is Eric. Sorry Eric if you're reading this; that's just my opinion. Didn't intend to make it sound like an insult........ The real problem is the eccentricity of the moderating here. It's less about the fact that good photographers like Ed are banished but the fact that certain people (including the strange old guy) are free to lash out at whoever they like without fear of any consequences. A bit of consistency would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Hmm, I think the thing is is that whether Al instigates some mischief intentionally or not, he's smart enough to know not to step over the line; though I do think he called somebody "scum" once, didn't he? Heh. But it was before the No Tolerance policy got announced, so he's safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 <i>The real problem is the eccentricity of the moderating here</i><p> Until there are full-time paid moderators, it's going to be that way. There are different people moderating, and since it isn't a regular job, a lot of other things (often things that pay) get in the way of any one person doing all the moderating.<p> FWIW, I was away the day that everything got crazy here. I missed it all. I would have deleted the original post as soon as I saw it, as it had nothing to do with this forum, so the rest wouldn't even have happened.<p> Unfortunately, that post caused a huge change in this forum. Prior to that, most of the moderation tasks here were cleaning up html and removing bad image posts. It took posting an irrelevant thread to change things, and not in a positive way.<p> I've always felt that when any group spends more time talking about itself than doing what it did previously it has lost its relevance. Either things move on or what has happened is the primary topic. I'd rather see things move on, whether or not a lot of regulars (myself included) use other outlets for their photography. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 cool Pete, glad to hear all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doris_chan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 "Until there are full-time paid moderators, it's going to be that way. There are different people moderating, and since it isn't a regular job, a lot of other things (often things that pay) get in the way of any one person doing all the moderating." I appreciate what you're saying, but, just as moderators hold ordinary contributors to a code of conduct, shouldn't moderators themselves behave according to a reasonable and understandable code. There was a thread here not so long ago where people making entirely reasonable and rational contributions were suspended/banned for the simple act of disagreeing with a moderator who was taking part in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 "There was a thread here not so long ago where people making entirely reasonable and rational contributions were suspended/banned for the simple act of disagreeing with a moderator who was taking part in the discussion." That sucked. Cire was born and Borris died... Doris, "I'm not sure why everybody gets hung up on the (admittedly bizarre) behavior of one strange old guy with probably little else going on his life. Sure, he's not a great photographer, but then neither is Eric. Sorry Eric if you're reading this; that's just my opinion. Didn't intend to make it sound like an insult........" No offence taken man.I didn't claim nor act like one. I'm confident where my strengths and weaknesses are. I truly regret my earlier statement. I'm pissed and disapointed and wish i could have bit my lip. That's all. I feel like we've been robbed and the cops know who did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 <i>I feel like we've been robbed and the cops know who did it.</i><p> oh jeez please get real Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 and do let it go already.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 how about i follow your example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I am as regular as clockwork. And I aint old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 All right, thankfully I missed the fireworks. I saw Brian's no tolerance, i agreed bagging on people is wrong. I saw Edmo's "farewell". I don't like banning generally, from what I've seen of the moderator he is, probably due to pressures I'm not privy to, quite arbitrary and reactive in his exercise of authority to my taste as this has all happened before. There are quite a few contributers here that were important to the mileau of this forum, that for whatever reason, are no longer here, which to me has diminished this place, period. That includes most of the various combatants and others who left before or were leaving. The only place I know to share work where there can be some interplay amongst us photogs is here. The Leica forum, is alright, but since Lemos got tossed and we gravitated to here, the photography there with some exceptions is generally much weaker and I'm being polite. Flickr looks a nice place to explore for putting up photos, but its not the same interaction. So what to do? Keep posting and see what evolves? Or if not stimulating, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy freeland Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Yup, Barry - I think you have it there. The banning felt arbitrary and reactive, especially in context with where threads had gone before. Jeff, what you wrote was helpful in understanding some of the missing pieces. I'd like to hope that Brian understands the effect his reaction had on the forum and many of its contributors.<p>And, Barry, I agree that the forum feels diminished without many of its former contributors, but also that the opportunities for interplay it provides are useful and not obviously available elsewhere. So, I intend to keep participating, and hope others do too, but am aware that the experience will be lessened - hopefully only for a while. If we end up with images like those I see on the Leica forum ... well, I ain't shelling out for a Leica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_. Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 i have kept my mouth shut all this time... it is the worship machine, which comes from all of us, that killed two of the three (al, ed and maria), so far. and it is this same worship machine that we operate that will kill more of us. what the phuck do i mean, you ask? i remember the time ed came to forum (jee, that was not too long ago). he was humble, quiet in general, posted his pictures and did not say much. when people praised his picture(s), he kindly said "thank you". he would give generous comments to other posters. then people started to like him (not just his work) and it got to a point that every picture he posted was the god sent gift. in turn, he became more verbal, and he acted as a master soon after that and he recognized very few but only those in close circle. and then no one could say a word about his stuff any more. i remember in one thread someone pointed out that he posted nothing but those dark and blurry stuff. it wasn't pretty. maria went through the similar. from a humble to a master-headed poster. her later stuff, to me, were nothing more than some street grabs with little separation on dof (which we all do - no criticism nor praise). her latest photo-competition was putting a lot of people off, if i remember correctly. many regulars did not participate... al, well, you know all the stories... so my thought is that, if we want this forum to provide what each of us want, maybe the first thing is to question our behavior, i mean, US, each of the participant, not to run the machine that will eventually kill a few operators. maybe we, not the moderators, should keep the balance of appreciating things that are more than we are familiar with or desire to be. maybe WE need to be honest with what we like and what we don't. i hate to be in an elite group or a good old boy network. i don't know about you though... now, i let it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenna_g Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I see the infamous deleted thread and aftermath is still a hot topic here. Obviously people have an opinion one way or another. I've been a regular here since March. I've seen very few heated arguments on this forum in that time, and even less that could be described as ugly. Much more common on the Leica Forum. Like Jeremy I found the banning arbitrary and reactive. Yes the thread was ugly, but it took an especially wicked turn after one person showed up. Personally I don't think anyone should have been banned, but if a suspension was necessary, the punishment should have been handed out equally to all the offending parties. The way it was handled just gave me (and probably many others) the impression that one man was indeed above the law. I doubt we will ever get a full explanation. So I guess this forum will continue to evolve. Most of us will miss the contributions of edmo and the many others who have decided to leave. Many of the missing photographers happened to be among the best in this forum, so obviously a lot has changed. Whether it was a core group or a clique didn't matter much to me. Their photos were consistently good which I think raised the bar for everyone else in this forum. I imagine in time a new "core group" will emerge and they will be lavished the same praise. We may all be equal as people, but that doesn't mean we have the same photographic ability. I certainly wish I had edmo's talent! For those of us who remain I guess we will continue posting to see what sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilis Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I came late to the thread, but I want to agree with M, her post is I think describing a big part of truth. As an outsider, what I can say is that praise and worship and formation of closed groups kills the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fate_faith_change_chains Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 So much for the question 'photographers and commercialisation' , maybe it should be 'photographers and their little tiny problems'. Tiny is as tiny do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
________1 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'm not quite good enough to abandon this place just yet. I came back to photography, decided to try street, and discovered photo.net all in the same week. Quite attached to this place, really. Think I've made some small measure of progress in the last two years and largely credit my participation on pnet for that. So, I'm in a bit of slump just now but I do plan on posting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 <i>I certainly wish I had edmo's talent! </i><p>Not happy with your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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