Police guitarist Andy Summers in AP & London

[Brad_]

Michael asked:<I>...why on earth would you still come to this coffee shop?</i><P>

 

Since you posed a direct question to me (otherwise I wouldn't spend the time on

this)...<P>

 

That's easy. Since this is a coffee shop, and reduced to a barber shop hangout as one

recently mused, then when subjects come up that I'm qualified to talk about, I do so.

Usually about digital capture, digital post processing, engineering, photography in

general, photographers, light, helping others in ps (like yourself), bookmaking, digital

prints, street photography, equipment for SP, comments about photos, etc. Even about

plastics, where it doesn't take a genius, or even someone with an engineering degree with

coursework in materials science (both which I have) to speak about in general terms.

Dennis always looking for an opportunity ridiculed my views on that and resorted to

juvenile name-calling when I took a position - was it his superior credentials in strength of

materials?<P>

 

Ray's recent post about film and digi users trying the other medium, is another good

example. Why on earth did Dennis feel the need to use that as a forum for condemning my

photography as well as the others that are searching/experimenting who are now on S&D,

and then resulting to personal insults - which was really sad. He feels the need to call me

stupid, a joke, dumb, a poor photographer, having reading comprehension issues,

needing to start over in photography, etc. Those kind of insults (calling someone stupid)

are the lowest of low - and is always a defense of last resort when one runs out of

substantive contributions. <P>

 

In contrast to the above, the amount of bad information that's spread by those that have

no familiarity at all with a subject is mind boggling. A great recent example, was the

recent proclamation that music in the industry is largely recorded on analog tape.<P>

 

So in summary Michael, I weigh-in on subjects where I have direct and relevant

experience. I usually stand clear of debates about chrome vs black, the best leica lenses

and lens caps, collecting, and other leica stuff I have no experience with. I take no position

on film vs digital capture other than whatever gets you the results you're seeking is great.

Probably half my friends/acquaintances use film.<P>

 

Dennis seems to be in this mode where he feels there's a large group of people against

him. You should have seen him go after Henry Chavez like a Pit Bull last year after he

described his profession as "peace officer," a common term, written in law, that goes back

to the 1700's in England - and not post 9/11 Orwellian/Ashcroftian euphemistic

doublespeak for being about peace.<P>

 

As someone said, he's melting down - that's the part that's "sad."

[dennis_couvillion]

Brad:

 

Are you an only child? You must be, because you come across like you are really special.

 

Yea... I'm a really bad dude picking on poor innocent people who never yanked anybody's chain here on the forum. What a laugh...

 

You, particularly, try to depict yourself as a poor picked-upon innocent. In fact, you are perhaps the number one antagonizer... there are many here who are in agreement with that, whether you choose to accept that or not. You always neglect to mention that I have been the brunt of more than my fair share of insults and abuse too. I'm not complaining... but at least tell the whole story. Show some integrity. Quit whining if you've met someone who can give it back to you better than you've been dishing out... and start telling the truth.

 

There are many people whose opinions and integrity I've learned to respect. You are not one of them... Why don't you stay out of my way and I'll stay out of yours? Nobody wants to see this anymore...

 

And by the way, as Michael tried to point out to you, this is no more than a "tickle fight"... you are a lightweight.

 

Dennis

[douglas k.]

Dennis-- I'm still waiting for a real critique.

[Brad_]

<I>Quit whining if you've met someone who can give it back to you better than you've

been dishing out</I><P>

 

You are the undisputed Champ when it comes to dishing back personal insults. No

arguments there.

[dennis_couvillion]

Why? I gave you one and you proceeded to do EXACTLY what you complained that other people did when you critiqued their photographs. You whined about it... and I knew you would do that. ;>)

 

If you still have issues with people not appreciating your critiques then talk to someone else about it.

[dennis_couvillion]

Brad:

 

Bottom line is that you underestimated me when you started going after me. Now grow up and be a man...

[Brad_]

More insults from the Champ...

[akochanowski]

Your point about a coffee shop is a good one,so I'll try to answer your question.

 

I am a bit fed up with some people in the back of the shop behaving like they were brought up in a double-wide trailer. This quote particularly really irritated me, as it was directed to someone who is patently neither mean nor critical, maybe just droll every once in a while:

 

"I know how you are going through a very emotional artistic crisis right now and true artists like yourself should be cut some slack for their artistic temperament. You are, as you've so generously shared with all of us, at that "point in (your) journey" where you are "questioning (your) motivation". And it is very brave of you, but it must be painful, to publicly share with everyone the "largely internal...dialogue" you are going through right now, which is "very personal." <Sigh> You are such an artiste, Peter... I admire you so much!

 

We've all watched you evolve as an artist from your silly little butt shots to the master of the Photoshopped glow. And now that you're work is again evolving into the more "abstract", as you've also shared with us, I wonder how much more evolution will be see. You are indeed brilliant, Peter. "

 

This type of gratuitous cruelty seems to be commonplace these days from Dennis, started it seems because a few people openly said the quality of photography on this particular forum has gone down. I'll say it again: this used to be a friendly place where there were intelligent people. It is now markedly less friendly and markedly less intelligent. You can agree or not, but I place much of the blame on the narcissistic cult of Al, who may be a nice guy, as Ray says, but whose photos are IN MY OPINION mediocre at best. For some reason to say so seems to set Dennis off.

 

For the record, because I'm thoroughly sick of this topic, I never much liked Grant's photos either-- all style, little substance. But if it is too difficult to be able to assign SOME degree of photographic merit to some forum posters (like Ray, Beau, Edmo, to name a few) and not be able to be critical of others, then what is the point of having a forum where the posting of photos is encouraged?

[dennis_couvillion]

"You can agree or not, but I place much of the blame on the narcissistic cult of Al, who may be a nice guy, as Ray says, but whose photos are IN MY OPINION mediocre at best. For some reason to say so seems to set Dennis off."

 

Allow me to correct you, Andy... if you're going to talk about me at least get it straight. Aside from (maybe) an occasional favorable word of encouragement on posting his photos I have only praised ONE of Al's photos.... his young daughter and the dog. A while back Al commented to me in an e-mail that he was only a "competent" photographer. Al's stuff is newspaper stuff... it has interesting historical value. And Al is a nice guy. But I've never been one to sing the praises of his photography and I certainly wouldn't get angry at anyone who called Al's photography mediocre. Even Al might agree with that assessment.

 

What actually did set me off, though, was the cruelty directed at Al. For a while there was a jackal-like mentality of ganging up on people like Al by certain members. Yea... that offended me greatly. Some people like myself defended Al so we were attacked too. However, I bite back...

 

I have watched a group of guys, some of whom used to be decent, grow full of themselves with what I can only describe as some delusional fantasy that they are cutting edge photographers. (Like Proximo said to Maximus in the movie, "Gladiator", "You're good Spaniard... but you're not that good.") I watched the arrogance, pomposity, condescension and the ridicule dumped upon the people here until finally the REAL SHOOTERS declared they were going elsewhere so their precious pictures would not have to stand next to our dreadful dregs.

 

Problem is they never left. The like to come SLUMMING here to annoy the locals. "Hey... let's mess with'em on the Leica Forum by starting another 'WHAT'S RANGEFINDER STYLE?' thread?" Or, "How about we just keep messing with Al? ...or Dennis?"

 

Sorry, some of us don't play that game. If this place is so god-awful then why don't the people who hate it, and the people here, just stay away? ...unless, of course, their only reason for coming is to yank a few chains. Well, yank away... but don't whine when someone yanks back.

[akochanowski]

Dennis, do you come up with this stuff when you're lining your room with tin foil, or later, when bagging and freezing your feces?

[douglas k.]

Dennis, you obviously have lousy reading comprehension. I have written that people dismiss my critiques by claiming "your photos suck so you are not qualified to critique mine," and later, after I pulled my photos, that "you have no right to criticize my work because you have no posted photos." That's not what I am claiming about you. You practically begged me to post photos, you were dying to critique them, and now they're here, and you offer only opinion without justification or explanation. There is a big difference between a critique and a mere opinion.

 

Note, Dennis, that I am neither disputing nor dismissing your opinion. I am just asking for a critique, which is what you have promised me. I won't dispute that, either, if it ever arrives.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to critique my photos. After so many people have ragged me for having no posted photos, doesn't someone have something, anything, intelligent to write about them?

[dennis_couvillion]

Douglas, this is what you wrote:

 

"Dennis, you exemplify the reasons why I stopped spending time writing critiques on this forum: because the posters, who had often asked for critiques, would respond with excuses, rebuttals, and (most often) silence."

 

You responded to my critique with rebuttals in defense of your pics. This is what you complained that other people did.

 

 

Andy: Not a big fan of the truth are you? Just out of curiosity why are you still here? Slumming?

[Brad_]

Dennis has been doing this for more than a year - way before any Al things came up. He

has a long memory and enjoys punishing people (like the plastic and the digi/film Ray

threads) out of the blue to assert his control. Getting even and all that - rather than

letting things rest. And Andy is right about the cruelty - should have seen him go after

Henry the peace (police) officer - talk about cruelty.

[Allen Herbert]

Hey, this is more interesting than talking a about the merits of various lens caps.

 

Anyway, the girls have a SPECIAL certificate for who they judge the winner.

 

So, post your self photo, and the best looking bloke wins...<div></div>

[douglas k.]

"You responded to my critique with rebuttals in defense of your pics."

 

Dennis, please show me where I have defended my pics. Really, please cut and paste the specific comments. (You need to take a reading comprehension class.)

[dennis_couvillion]

Here, Douglas:

 

"By the way, Dennis, I particularly like this statement: "The photo of the musician is nice but I find that most stage shots look about the same." If you tried, really tried, you could not come up with better evidence of your utter lack of ability to offer a worthwhile critique of the photo. Show me the photo that looks just like this one."

 

Quit whining...

[douglas k.]

I'm not defending the photo, Dennis...I'm asking you to demonstrate how all stage photos look the same. So show me another that looks like that one. Or just show me TWO stage photos, any stage photos, that "look the same." Can you do that? Can you back up a claim, even once?

 

Your MO: attribute statements to people that they've not made. Make for yourself wild claims/promises on which you cannot deliver. You seem like the kind of sad old man who stands out on his front steps, waving his fist and yelling at the neighbor kids. So sad.

 

I'm still waiting for that critique that you were so eager to deliver...A real critique, not a simple opinion expressed as if you're discussing ice cream flavor preferences. Maybe, before making such promises in the future, you should actually read a book on art criticism. Learn something.

[EricM]

Doug, your energy is too valuable to waste here....