What's appearing on our streets.......vandalism or art?

[__stu_evans]

<< The streets are our playgrounds for expression. >>

 

Same crap at the railyard. Go down there and play.

[edmo]

<i>And which branch of the Art Police is going to decide on that?</i>

<p>

Personal preference, same as gallery hopping...some is good and most of it sux.

[edmo]

<i>Same crap at the railyard. Go down there and play.</i>

<p>

Ahh, the joys of elitism...

[kent_tolley2]

Edmo 7:31 is beautiful to me.<BR>

Art police? Aren't there enough serious crimes for the "police" to handle? I want the police for Halliburton, Enron, Lincoln Savings and Loan, Merck, etc to stand and be counted. And I want them to do their job. And I want the media to keep me informed of their performance. I am the customer here.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>Look at how public entities (Enron, Halliburton, FDA, Merck, etc.) are ripping off the

public. And getting away with it! </I><P>I agree completely ! And I hate billboards and

all of those stupid

idiots who pay Nike, etc to be walking billboards for them! I also like looking at really well

done

graffitti Even so, the logic behind saying that Enron, etc. rip off people legitimate

vandalism?

 

Wantto do something revolutionary? Invest in those companies and give your profits to to

groups that subvert them. It worked for Fredrich Engels!

[ray .]

It's natural, like moss and grass growing between cracks of cement. Some people think you need to pour poison on the growth and make everything antiseptically clean, but I don't, not always anyway. It's normal for people to want to make their mark in some way, and to be expected where they have little other means to make themselves heard. If its intent is purely vandalism, then that's no doubt another issue, but I don't think that's the normal situation.

[kent_tolley2]

In fact all of Edmo's grafitti is beautiful to me. <BR>What say those here that think grafitti is the scourge of the universe. In the big picture I don't understand the rage against grafitti while there is silence against the Goliath public entities ripping off the public.

[Brad_]

Early 1900s abandoned military base - no harm here.<BR><P>

<center>

<img src= "http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images4/Headlands_Web_9-4-04/

image/damned.jpg">

</center>

[will_legge]

So Kent, you justify vandalism because of the actions of Enron??? I fail to see the connection? Or are you saying some crimes are not worth pursuing? So if someone goes into a museum and slashes a few old masters, the police don't have to bother with it because there are worse crimes they should be dealing with? I thought the police had different sections for dealing with different crimes?

[Brad_]

Kent: Nice catch. China Beach, that's right below the Sea Cliff area, right? Anything else

interesting there?

[edmo]

<i>So if someone goes into a museum and slashes a few old masters, the police don't have to bother with it because there are worse crimes they should be dealing with?</I>

<p>

You gotta be f*cking sh*ting...

[kent_tolley2]

Outstanding Brad. The only shame is that so few people ever get over to the Marin Headlands and climb down into those batteries and see this. This grafitti needs a larger audience which is what you're giving them. Thank you for that.<BR><BR> Ellis said:

<i>Even so, the logic behind saying that Enron, etc. rip off people legitimate vandalism? Wantto do something revolutionary? Invest in those companies and give your profits to to groups that subvert them. It worked for Fredrich Engels!</i><BR><BR>

Logic is not the only valid cognitive function. There is as much validity in the unlogical. Engel's idea is interesting. Also if you can organize a boycott you can also get Goliath's attention. The problem is a lot of people want their Nikes even if a woman in Indonesia and her children work 12 hours a day for low wages to make them. Most people don't know, maybe don't care, maybe don't care to know what's going on. I can't think humans don't care. But it seems we don't want to be bothered with the ugly facts when it means we have to do something. Artful grafitti addresses some of these issues. Yea Banksy!

[edmo]

Kent, thnaks.

<p>

<center><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2844252-lg.jpg"></center>

[Brad_]

Kent, thanks. Re China Beach, any other interesting stuff there?

[edmo]

<p>

<center><img src="http://www.leveckis.net/images/misc/ss03.jpg"></center>

<center><i>criminal activity</i></center>

[kent_tolley2]

Heh Brad. China Beach is below Sea Cliff over by the Legion of Honor. You drive thru Sea Cliff along the street closest to the ocean (forgot it's name) and I think there is stairway access down to the water. Or you can take the walk from old Sutros and the Cliff House. It's about a mile East of where the Sutro baths used to be. I only shot this one when I was there. I think it regularily gets painted out and then morphs into something else.

[brian_diaz]

Categorically condeming graffiti is overly simplistic, but categorically condeming vandalism is not. I enjoy much of these aesthetically and thematically, but I cannot support the defacement of other people's property.

 

The irony is that because of Banksy's infamy, he cannot legitimatly make his art. Jamie Oliver tried to hire him, but he was unsuccessful because the police would just go to the restaurant and arrest him. That is a terrible way to live.

[kent_tolley2]

<i>he cannot legitimatly make his art</i><BR>

I don't think he wants or needs to make his art legitimatly. He's an outlaw. He likes it illegitimate. It doesn't seem to stop him from making his art. If you legitimized it pretty soon you'de see it showing up in Macy's wanting to appear fashionable. They'd commercialize it and assimilate him and kill it that way.

[kent_tolley2]

errata: <i>showing up in Macy's wanting to appear fashionable</i><BR>

should read: showing up in Macy's and on the front of t-shirts and blue jeans worn by those wanting to appear fashionable.

[edmo]

<i>...They'd commercialize it and assimilate him and kill it that way....</i>

<p>

Keith Haring syndrome....then you can wear it with your Nike's and hang out in homogenous shopping centers.

[kent_tolley2]

Meet Banksy<BR><BR>

<center><img src="http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/banksy_splash.jpg"></center><BR><BR>

<center><img src="http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/banksy_city2.jpg"></center><BR><BR>

<center><img src="http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/banksy_love_bomb.jpg"></center><BR><BR>

<center><img src="http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/photos/banksy_old_st_cops2.jpg"></center>

[cfimages]

Australia's richest man, Kerry Packer, owns a TV network, publishing empire and a casino (amongst other things).

 

Someone once sprayed on one of the casino's walls

 

"I couldn't afford to buy the media, so I bought paint"

[claudia__]

i did a lot of photographing of graffiti in east oakland, mostly along the railroad tracks in the nineties, but i don't feel like it is something i own. most of it, well all, actually, was destroyed and so what i have are documents. it really belongs to the artists and they were outlaws and who knows who they are. someday i will donate the pix to someone who will know what to do with them. but i am kind of burned out on the subject right now.

[edmo]

Claudia found your comment about 'owning it' interesting. My take is the exact opposite, the way I see it and I'm only commenting on my pics is there are two different types of shots. Some of them documentary, while the others are extract the work out of context and stand on their own.

<p>

Appropriation in art, nothing new with it and nothing wrong with it, could even refer to it as a process of transformation. When you think about it the graffiti artist transformed an architects design and chances are highly likely that the architect appropriated his details from yet another design. Worst possible scenario would be that the process comes to end.

<p>

<center><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2820793-lg.jpg"></center>

[claudia__]

i tend not to think of graffiti artists in Oakland CA (one of the most violent places in the USA) fitting into your statement " When you think about it the graffiti artist transformed an architects design and chances are highly likely that the architect appropriated his details from yet another design." just doesn't fit the socio-economic facts of that particular place. bigger issues and i don't feel comfortable appropriating their images for my purposes. not judging what others do though.