alkaline fixer and stain

[skygzr]

Hi All -

 

It's frequently repeated that you should use an alkaline fixer after staining

developers, because an acid fixer destroys the stain. I was curious if anyone

has ever done an A/B test...shoot two similar rolls, process them at the same

time, and fix them differently.

 

I tried pyro a few years ago (but didn't inhale), and was not sure I saw the

benefit. Beutler's seems just as sharp and I didn't have to wear rubber gloves.

I couldn't convince my self that my highlights were a whole lot different,

either. However, I'm perfectly willing to admit that the effects may have been

beyond my ability to appreciate, and that a second look is warranted.

 

So I thought I'd try again, this time with the 510 formula, and maybe Hypercat,

too. I'll get some TF4 when I order the chemicals.

 

I saw some discussion to the effect that 60% ammonium thiosulfate is the main

(maybe only) ingredient in Thio-Sul, a fertilizer. It's apparently a good deal

cheaper than the stuff from the chemistry stores. I'll see if any of the local

farm supply places have it.

 

http://www.tkinet.com/aboutus/aboutus_products_ag_thio-sul.html

[jay_de_fehr]

Hi Kevin.

 

If you're interested in making good negatives simply and reliably, with a minimum of complication, I recommend 510-Pyro (single solution) over Hypercat(two-solution).

 

Thanks for the Thio-Sul tip; I'll look for it. I use Ron Mowerey's Superfix with all my developers, and love it. Good luck.

 

Jay

[ronald_moravec1]

Tried PMK and while nice, really could not see benefits. The I had a few unexplained failures with PF kit. By PMK

 

Water rinse and alkaline fix maintained the original stain and no restaining was required or beneficial.

[doremus_scudder1]

Kevin,

I've done the before and after test. I use PMK, but had trouble with the TF-4 fix (mottling and streaking...). At any rate, I switched to Ilford Hypam at the 1:9 dilution, which is just slightly acidic.

Negatives done in an entirely alkaline process showed good stain. There was no appreciable difference between negs processed this way with or without the 2-minute afterbath in the spent developer that Gordon Hutchens recommends.

 

However, the negs processed conventionally, i.e. acid stop and Ilford Hypam, Have visibly less stain before and after the 2-minute afterbath in the alkaline developer. The difference, however is much less noticeable after a 30-minute wash. I imagine the neutral pH of the wash water serves to build some stain.

 

As far as printing goes, I can tell no difference between the negatives processed conventionally with or without the afterbath except for a little added time due to increased base fog. I surmise that most of the stain added during the afterbath is overall stain and not image stain. Overall stain can reduce contrast in the shadows a bit, but does help to mask grain a bit more. Due to the above, I no longer use the afterbath much. If there are delicate highlights that may benefit from a bit more overall stain, then I will use it, but if there is critical shadow on the edge of underexposure, I do.

 

I should mention that the negatives processed conventionally done without the afterbath do show adequate staining, just not as much as those with the afterbath.

 

BTW, when I switched to PMK, I noticed a marked difference in the rendering of delicate high values (clouds, etc.) as well as a bit of grain masking. That is why I have stuck with it, despite the gloves.

 

Hope this helps

[larrydressler]

D-76 is so cheap and last a long time why use those Pyro things if they are just so Probmatlic?... because like you said you tryed them years ago... It also makes a great explosive when mixed with hydrocarbon fuel 60% ammonium thiosulfate that is.....

 

Larry

[jay_de_fehr]

Larry,

 

510-Pyro is much cheaper than D-76, lasts much longer, is far more versatile, and produces sharper negs with better film speed and gradation. 510-Pyro represents a new generation of staining developer, with benefits unavailable from earlier generations, including ease of use.

 

Jay