arthur_gottschalk Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 We've had a very bad experience at B&H. My girlfriend bought a used Mamiya 6 from them several months ago, a camera they rated a "9". A short time later she discovered that parts of the camera had been painted black to improve the camera's cosmetics and disguise the camera's true condition. She brought the camera back and pointed this out, and they offered to spruce it up again. Then the camera's winding mechanism broke, due to the excessive use that was disguised, and Mamiya USA can't repair it. We brought it back to B&H again, asking for some kind of restitution. Sorry, no dice. I think that's bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene m Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Buying new stuff at B&H is great. They are incredibly fast with mail orders. Apparently their used equipment policy could use some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygzr Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 That's a shame. Like Gene, I've always found B&H to be pretty easy to deal with. They're not the friendliest bunch in the world, but on the rare occasion they've made a mistake, they always took care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db1 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Please define "several months ago". Did she buy the camera in the last 6 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_woodard Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Used equipment from B&H I believe comes with a brief warranty, 6 months,90 days, whatever, if the camera malfunctions or breaks after the periodof the warranty, B&H will not fix the camera, its sad but simple. B&H have been straight forward and honest with me for the past 10 years ofdoing mail-order buisness with them, I generally stay away from used cameras, and lens. Good Luck, I'm somewhat surprized Mamiya bailed onparts for the Mamiya 6, is it that old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markrinella Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Sorry that the Mamiya 6 failed - seems that a camera rated 9 should last longer than a few months. I would be curious if anyone knows whether it is possible to evaluate the winding mechanism of a Mamiya 6 to see if the part is likely to fail anytime soon or if its just one of those things that fails without warning? I also noticed that B&H sells Mack warranties for its used equipment and they seem reasonably priced. Has anyone used this service and if so, how was it? Maybe Mack has parts for the Mamiya 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimvanson Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Is it a case of no parts or is it a case of MAC not wanting to touch a grey market camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 If you're in NYC, take it to Nippon Camera Service (or is it "Nippon Camera Repair"?--something like that) near the Flatiron building. They have an excellent reputation, and I'm fairly sure they work on Mamiya. I'd trust them over the Mack warantee any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ_britt1 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 It is no help at this time,but everything I have read about the Mamiya 6 is that they have constant film advance problems. I had a early 645 and it kept breaking film transport gears (bought it new). Thats why I took a big loss and sold it cheap and went to Hassey 25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_stockdale2 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 The lack of availability of parts for the Mamiya 6 winding mechanism is well known. It is paradoxical that my 1967 Rollei can be repaired, but my mamiya 6 (maybe 10 years old, not really sure) can't. My solution is a spare body, not a really satisfactory solution, but the camera is such a joy to use. If anyone has any ideas, please let us know. Can the offending part be manufactured or repaired in some way? Does anyone know what the part is made of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff_lesergent Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 It seems to me that the weak winding mechanism is a known problem with Mamiya 6 cameras, so it probably did not fail due to "excessive use". In any event, I would be surprised if any store would offer restitution on a used camera several months after purchase, especially since it sounds like it failed after the warranty period was up. Put yourself in their shoes - how would they know how the camera was used (or abused) after it left the store? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoresteen Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I would bet that SK Grimes could make the part if they had a sample. Contact them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 "A short time later she discovered that parts of the camera had been painted black to improve the camera's cosmetics and disguise the camera's true condition." Should she not have noticed this when she bought it? I like B&H but their s/h is rather overpriced and it always pays to be vigilant. If it was out of warranty then I agree with their stand, if not, then they should provide an alternative or whatever their policy decrees. I don't really think you can expect them to point out every quirk and fleck of dust in the camera before you buy it. Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Folks also detail their cameras before sulling them to KEH or B&H; to try to get a better offer. Sometimes the microtouchups work; sometimes it drop the value; if poorly done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 Yes, the warranty had expired, which would normally hold the seller blameless. In this case, however, the camera had been misrepresented as a "9", with a cheap paint job that disguised its true condition. This was pointed out to B&H well before the camera failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 I also own a Mamiya 6, bought new and still working perfectly. It's my favorite camera. . I think it's a real shame that Mamiya won't remanufacture the necessary parts, as it has such an enthusiastic following. Better yet, they should reintroduce it as there is nothing else like it in the marketplace. Yes, I also have an M7 II, which I bought primarily for the 43mm lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Arthur, too bad you didn't research the Mamiya 6 before you let her buy it, or you would have discovered beneath the cloud of perfume sprayed by current owners of that camera, the stench of the norotious unreliability of the film transport as well as Mamiya's cessation of parts support. That said, I agree with Robin, it should have been apparent immediately to you or to her that the camera had been repainted. B&H has a 14-day no-questions-asked return policy, followed by a 90-day warranty (60 days longer than most dealers and even 30 days longer than KEH as a matter of fact). Now "several months later" (obviously more than three) you want to bash B&H on the internet for not refunding your money? Sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_duffy1 Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 B&H is known for inflated ratings on used equipment. I've looked at stuff rated 8 1/2 that I wouldn't rate a 4. There are lots of better places to buy used equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted June 17, 2004 Author Share Posted June 17, 2004 I think that selling a used camera that had been doctored to appear in much better condition than it actually was -- and giving that camera a much higher rating than it diserved-- should be grounds for some kind of restitution. How about a partial store credit? Or a discount on a replacement? How would you feel if you paid for a "vintage" Diane Arbus photo, only to find that it was printed yesterday? When you deal with a well-known store like B&H, I don't think it's too much to ask of them to stand behind their products and take responsibility for their mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry_benjamin Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 I totally agree with Gene M , jun 16, 2004; 09:20 p.m. Their new equip.service/sales is superb.......however the used equipment dept. is below par in comparison. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwrtertbsratbs5 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Everyone seems to over-rate equipment. I see lots of cameras on eBay that are desribed as "mint" that show clear signs of wear. I've also seen lenses described as mint, even though the seller acknowledges fungus growing on the lens elements! All the same, I'm sorry to hear about your fim transport failure. Lack of spare parts is a problem for any obsoleted camera (obsoleted by the manufacturer, that is). My Contax IIIa can only be serviced by scavenging other bodies. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_drew4 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I have had good luck buying used gear (maybe a dozen transactions)at B&H - all mail order. I have had "9" rated gear look'n'feel new and come in its original box. I have also had excellent service from B&H via the telephone and internet. It's too bad that the camera failed, seriously. However, B&H may have honored their warranty,at least in their minds, by offering to "spruce it up". Had the mechanical failure occurred earlier, I believe that B&H would have stepped up and taken responsibility. The bigger pity is that Mamiya USA bailed out on fixing it, even if it is billable. Mamiya is accepting no responsibility at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfirstshooter Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 062004 1616 B&H made the following response to my request to them for a comment. BTW, there may have been a Jim involved in this mish Goss, but it wasn't this Jim. I've never been in B&H's store. B&H RESPONSE TO UPSET CUSTOMER Customer: My girlfriend bought a used Mamiya 6 from them several months ago. B&H: Nine months ago to be exact. Customer: a camera they rated a "9" B&H: Could have been overrated (but customer saw this in the store and decided to buy it). Customer: She brought the camera back and pointed this and they offered to spruce it up again. B&H: After the warranty period and we advised her to send it off to Mamiya. Customer: Then the camera's winding mechanism broke, due to the excessive use that was disguised, and Mamiya USA can't repair it. B&H: Mamiya has discontinued this camera for the past 4 to 5 years it definitely was used before by a previous owner (This is the used department at B&H). P.S. Mamiya stopped repairing these cameras, as all company's do on older cameras. Customer: We brought it back to B&H again, asking for some kind of restitution. Sorry, no dice. I think that's bad business." B&H: Brought it back on Thursday (nine months later) 6/17/04 and requested money back, not some type of restitution, customer blew up in the store and threw a phone on the table (B&H property). Only wanted back her money. I think customer is trying to take advantage of B&H. Our name is well known as a customer service oriented and are willing to bend the rules especially in the used department but this customer didn't want to hear anything except complete refund. Should anyone reading this response feel they would like to discuss this matter or Jim himself who was in the store and didn't say a word at the time feel free to call me at 800-963-2525 Israel Used Dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 To reiterate a few points: The customer bought the camera because it was rated a 9 and "appeared" to be in excellent condition, The customer did not see the wear that was disguised by the paintwork at the time of purchase. If she had seen it she absolutely would not have purchased the camera. The fact is, the camera was misrepresented. No one is accusing B&H of painting the camera to disguise it's true condition. That was probably done by the previous owner. Nevertheless, B&H had a responsibility to stand by the rating they gave it. The fault also lies with Mamiya for not keeping parts available for such a popular and useful camera. They sold quite a few of them in the United States, and all of them are slowly turning to junk. I have three Rollei TLRs, each more than 40 years old, all all of them are easily repaired today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur_gottschalk Posted August 24, 2004 Author Share Posted August 24, 2004 Thanks to the intervention of B&H's David Brommer, the company ultimately agreed to have the camera repaired. All's well that ends well, and thank you David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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