Would you buy gray market to save $300?

<p>I am in the market for a new D5300 <strong>or</strong> a D7100 - with a 18-140 mm kit lens. Looking at the prices, it seems Adorama sells import models for about $300 lower than the same item from someplace like B&H. For the D5300, that represents about a 50% discount - which is too large to ignore.<br>

Of course I know that grey or not is an old debate, but I would appreciate any comments that you may have. How would <strong>YOU</strong> choose, if you were in my shoes?<br>

Two other questions:<br>

Are there any caveats about purchasing from Adorama (a store whose ads I have seen for years, but never purchased from)?<br>

&<br>

Am I likely to score better deals post Black Friday?<br>

Thanks</p>

<blockquote>

 

<p>Hi Ganz<br>

I wrote the piece below for the Adorama website - it should answer most (if not all) your questions, but if you need to contact me directly, you are most welcome: Helen@adorama.com</p>

<p>Helen Oster<br>

Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador</p>

<h3>What is the Grey Market?</h3>

<p>"Grey Market," also known as "direct import," are products imported directly into the U.S., and not through the manufacturer's authorized agent/distributor.</p>

 

 

<h3>Are "Grey Market" products legally imported?</h3>

<p>Yes, it is perfectly legal to directly import these products and sell them in the U.S.</p>

 

 

<h3>What are the advantages of "Grey Market" goods?</h3>

<p>There is no factory-authorized middleman involved in the import of these products, so the costs are lower. As a result, the customer pays less. In addition, many items that are in short supply or are not imported at all by the manufacturer's authorized distributors, are available in the "Grey Market."</p>

 

 

<h3>Are there any disadvantages of "Grey Market" goods?</h3>

<p>Because there is no factory-authorized middleman, there is no manufacturer's warranty. However, "Grey Market" products purchased from Adorama are warrantied by Adorama Camera and are returned to Adorama Camera for any warranty repair.</p>

 

 

<h3>Are there product differences in "Grey Market" goods?</h3>

<p>There is no difference in the actual products. In most cases, they are manufactured in the same place by the same people and with the same materials. Occasionally, manufacturers will give them a different name. For example, the Olympus USA Digital Stylus Cameras are called Olympus MJU Cameras in Europe.</p>

 

 

<h3>What type of warranty does Adorama offer on "Grey Market" goods?</h3>

<p>On "Grey Market" products purchased from Adorama, we offer the same warranty as the U.S. warrantied products carry, for a period of one year. The only difference is that the product would need to be shipped to Adorama for warranty service.</p>

 

 

<h3>Do I need a warranty certificate for repairs on "Grey Market" goods?</h3>

<p>No, your Adorama invoice is all you need to get warranty service on "Grey Market" products.</p>

 

 

<h3>What happens after the warranty expires?</h3>

<p>Just like products with an expired manufacturers' warranty, you can take the product to any convenient repair shop and pay for the repair.</p>

 

 

<h3>Is there "Grey Market" film?</h3>

<p>Yes, we carry Kodak film in three versions:</p>

<ul >

<li>U.S. - made in the U.S. for domestic distribution</li>

<li>U.S. for export - made in the U.S. for worldwide distribution</li>

<li>Grey Market - imported from other countries</li>

</ul>

<p>Fuji, Ilford and Agfa films are made outside the U.S. In this case, Grey Market means how it came to be imported. The products are the same, but distribution and control determine the difference between U.S. and Grey Market. The main issue with film has always been assurance that it was handled and stored properly during transport to protect its emulsion. For this reason many professionals prefer U.S. film. However, in our experience, we've very rarely encountered any emulsion problems with Grey Market film.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Helen, thanks for the official information from Adorama. I thought they didn't sell gray-market Nikon DSLRs; since when has Adorama been selling gray D5300?</p>

<p>For example, B&H is currently selling the D5300 body for $696.95: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1010022-REG/nikon_1519_d5300_dslr_camera_black.html<br>

There is a gray color option, but that means the color for the D5300 body is gray instead of black, not an alternate import from other than Nikon USA.</p>

<p>Is there a link to Adorama's web site showing a new D5300 at $300 cheaper, i.e. around $400?</p>

<p>The least expensive D5300 is an E+ used, http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20672456.html $499; or a refurb http://www.adorama.com/INKD5300BR.html#used $599</p>

<p>Adorama currently has the same model that you linked to on the B&H site, also at $696.95 with 2% cashback and savings of <a title="Buy together and save" href="http://www.adorama.com/bundles/INKD5300G">up to $1,485.00 with bundle</a> in loads of different colors! http://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Nikon~Digital-SLR-Cameras?sel=Model_Nikon-D5300&sf=Price&term=D5300</p>

<p>Helen</p>

<p>I read from different posts on different websites, that in the U.S. the official Nikon service centres will refuse to repair or servivce ( Clean, inspect & Service) any gray market item offered to them, no matter wether the öfficial" warranty period has passed or not. <br>

Question : Is this true ?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Are there any caveats about purchasing from Adorama (a store whose ads I have seen for years, but never purchased from)?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No caveats. They're an excellent store. I can only remember having one problem with something I purchased from them, and they took care of it right away.</p>

 

<p>No, I would not.</p>

<p>Chances are if you look you can find a lightly used USA body for less than the cost of a gray market, which may be a better choice in the long run.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>a lightly used USA body</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Yup, especially if it's from somewhere that has a 6month warranty.</p>

<p>Helen..</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>No, your Adorama invoice is all you need to get warranty service on "Grey Market" products.</p>

<h3>What happens after the warranty expires?</h3>

<p>Just like products with an expired manufacturers' warranty, you can take the product to <strong>any convenient repair shop and pay for the repair.</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>...is that true? It's the same question as C.P.M's above. How do you get stuff fixed?</p>

<p>Question.</p>

<p>If I buy a grey model from somewhere that offers a 6 month warranty, and it needs fixing how does the company get it fixed if it can't get Nikon to touch it and Nikon won't sell the spares to anyone other than an official Nikon repair shop...and they won't touch it anyway 'cos it's grey?</p>

<p>For the D5300? Yeah I would.</p>

<p>Mike</p>

<p>As stated above, Nikon USA will not service a direct import item at all, whether the customer is willing to pay or not.</p>

<p>However, I understand that this company is a Nikon authorized repair center, and WILL service all Nikon units, including direct import:<br /> <a href="http://www.nikoncamerarepair.com/">http://www.nikoncamerarepair.com</a></p>

<p>and that this guy also repairs and services Nikon lenses:</p>

<p>Rick J Riggins<br /> 1939 S. Quebec Wy. #203<br /> Denver, CO 80231<br /> <a href="http://www.discountcamerarepair.com/" target="_blank">WWW.DiscountCameraRepair.com</a><br /> <a href="tel:303-669-0945" target="_blank">303-669-0945</a></p>

<p>The link Helen provides for Authorized Photo Service, they will service grey market cameras and lenses, with one caveat. It has to be a product they service. It can sometimes take a while (read a year or two) for them to be able to service some of the newer products, because they are no longer a Nikon factory repair shop. Therefore they don't get the repair information immediately from the factory when new products are announced. If you are interested in a grey market product, best to call them first and make sure it is one they can service. If so, buying grey market will then only mean having no factory warranty.</p>

<p>Best,<br>

-Tim</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The least expensive D5300 is an E+ used, <a href="http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20672456.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20672456.html</a> $499; or a refurb <a href="http://www.adorama.com/INKD5300BR.html#used" rel="nofollow">http://www.adorama.com/INKD5300BR.html#used</a> $599<br>

Adorama currently has the same model that you linked to on the B&H site, also at $696.95 with 2% cashback and savings of <a title="Buy together and save" href="http://www.adorama.com/bundles/INKD5300G" rel="nofollow">up to $1,485.00 with bundle</a> in loads of different colors! <a href="http://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Nikon%7EDigital-SLR-Cameras?sel=Model_Nikon-D5300&sf=Price&term=D5300" rel="nofollow">(link)</a></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Right, Helen. I don't think Adorama is selling any gray-market Nikon DSLRs. Therefore, the OP's initial post is incorrect and most of this thread is moot.</p>

<p>Helen - thanks for the informative reply. I've used Adorama only once or twice in the past 15 years and was satisfied with the transaction, with no hesitation to use them again.<br>

Ganz -As for the gray market potential purchase....I think only you can answer the question based on your location, willingness to accept risk, and how roughly or tenderly you treat cameras. I've used both gray market as well as used cameras with absolutely no warranties, if the price was right. Again, only you can ascertain if the price is right for you. If you plan to have the camera for a loooong time (in the digital world anything longer than a product cycle), gray may not be best for you.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>willingness to accept risk</p>

<p>gray market cameras as well as used cameras with absolutely no warranties, if the price was right</p>

</blockquote>

<p>For me this would depend on the size of the risk. I would risk buying the D5300 new on eBay with NO warranty (if the price were right and the seller had a very, very high feedback rating and accepts PayPal), but I would insist upon a U.S. warranty if buying the D810, and I would buy that only from a highly reputable dealer.</p>

<p>Why? Think of it as being self-insured--but only up to a point, combined with the fact that I have had no failures of new Nikon equipment--from any source. That is, in the unlikely event that the D5300 were to fail right away, I could absorb the loss, although it would hurt. I would not be willing to accept a loss the size of the purchase price of a D810. That would hurt far too much for my slender budget.</p>

<p>There is no "right" answer to your question. It depends on the size of the risk you are willing to take. Right now (I just checked) there is a "<strong>D5300 body only, new, Buy It Now</strong>" (my search string) option on eBay from a dealer whom I have never heard of--for just under $500. Would I buy it if I needed a D5300 right now? I personally would, if the dealer accepts PayPal and has a high feedback rating. I would not dare do that with a more expensive camera, but $500 is not such a great risk for many people.</p>

<p>So, if I wanted a D5300 to knock around with or as a gift to someone else, I would probably take the chance. Others might not.</p>

<p>It is not just dealer reliability that is the key on smaller purchases. It is brand reliability. A new but modest Nikon straight from the factory is an acceptable risk for me. It is possible to be over-insured, and warranties (like all insurance) cost money. For a new Nikon DSLR body under $500, I would try to pick it up new on eBay using PayPal from a high-volume dealer with very high feedback. The choice gets tougher if there are lenses involved in the deal.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>The OP may post incorrect information but if the price of the D5300 gray market is $300 instead of $600 then I would risk buying a D5300 gray market. However, I don't think the saving is that much.</p>

<p>Shun Cheung: "...Therefore, the OP's initial post is incorrect and most of this thread is moot."</p>

<p>Turkey, er, OP here - yes, I goofed. I had meant to write <strong>Abe's of Maine</strong>, but inadvertently wrote Adorama. Sorry Helen, but thanks for your response.<br>

Abe's of Maine currently sells the gray D5300 + 18-140 mm for $683 (after the cash back discount), while B&H sells the US import for about $979 - ergo, $300 difference.<br>

In helping me decide whether to pull the trigger, does anyone know whether I can get a gray camera serviced <strong>outside the US within the warranty period</strong>? For instance, could I take the camera to Switzerland or Germany and ask for it to be repaired by Nikon?<br>

Also, are there any caveats known to anybody, about <strong>Abe's of Maine</strong>?</p>

<p>As I have pointed out a number of times, I have been using Nikon SLRs since 1977, the year they introduced AI. In these days I get some DSLRs from Nikon USA for testing. Over 30+ years, a recent D810 is the first one that is defective out of the box. I have an F100 that developed depth-of-field preview button problems after like 2, 3 years, and my F4's electronics died after like 10 years.</p>

<p>However, some other people who use their cameras heavily and professionally find their Nikon DSLRs need regular maintenance.</p>

<p>If you are in the latter category, I would definitely buy something that Nikon USA (or whatever your local importer) will service. However, for my type of usage, I am very confident with Nikon's quality. If Nikon USA offered a no warranty option and discounted the products by 20%, I would go for that option immediately. My experience is that well below 5% of my Nikon products require maintenance. If the discount is 20%, the math is very simple. I don't care about repair at all. If I have to throw a bad item into trash and pay for another one, I can still come out ahead, easily, in the longer run.</p>

<p>The thing is that I am very confident about Adorama, as well as B&H, Amazon, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a gray-market item from Adorama, and I have done so from B&H. Both of my 300mm/f2.8 AF-S and 300mm/f4 AF-S are gray market. The savings for gray was more like 10% back then, and I have owned both lenses for well over a decade and neither gray-market lens has any issue.</p>

<p>But I always know that Adorama doesn't sell gray-market Nikon DSLRs. When the seller is some other store, my confidence level is very different.</p>

<p>I totally agree with Shun that if you are a heavy user you should get a USA warrantee. Having said that.</p>

<p>Nikon's service center is a shadow of what it once was and their customer service phone support is appalling in my opinion. Their prices border on the absurd. This argues for risking the gray market as Nikon is not really adding much value to the purchase. Compared to Canon's warrantee options, Nikon is way behind.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Just like products with an expired manufacturers' warranty, you can take the product to any convenient repair shop and pay for the repair.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>This presupposes two things. The first is that the repair facility you choose can get the parts. This is far from certain and even less so as the product gets older. When an old war-horse D2X of mine failed Nikon wanted over $500.00 to repair it and I could not find a single US repair facility that would work on it for any price. They simply could not get the parts.<br>

The second assumption is that the additional money for Nikon USA warrantee might not be a bargain. For example. The $2400.00 70-200 F/2.8 vrII comes with a five year warrantee. Does Adorama match this or is gray market only one year?</p>

<p>Extended warrantees are a possibility but they can be problematic. They can eat up your savings and one of the major ones suffers real customer dissatisfaction. </p>

<p>FWIW, for fairly expensive items I think I would be inclined to go with a USA product. If I could buy gray market AND a Square-Trade extended/replacement warrantee then I might consider gray market. </p>

 

<p>Adorama I've hand nothing but good dealings with.<br>

Gray market - - in the US - - simply NO, if repairs are needed Nikon USA will not touch it.</p>

<p>JMHO</p>

<p>The thing that worries me is that Nikon only have to whisper 'Impact Damage' and you can kiss any warrantee goodbye and there's damn-all you can do about it.</p>

<p>Comments...?</p>

<p>Back in 2005, we went to Madagascar for 3 weeks. Madagascar was a French colony so that a lot of the international flights going there are from Paris, which we had not visited so that we used the opportunity to tour Paris for 3 days.</p>

<p>While in Madagascar, I noticed that my 17-55mm/2.8 AF-S lens wouldn't AF with the lower AF points on my D2X. A couple of fellow travelers also had the D2X and my lens had the same problem on their cameras as well. After I got home, I sent the 17-55mm lens to Nikon for (warranty) repair. Nikon's reply was indeed "impact damage" but in that case, they only charged me $135 or so, which I think is unusually low for Nikon.</p>

<p>For a while I was thinking that Nikon USA repair was giving me BS as my lens never had any impact, and then I remembered that I had it on the D2X, all inside a holster-style, padded camera bag hanging on my shoulder. I was inside a cheap restaurant (no carpet) in Paris for lunch and all of a sudden the strap came off its hook and the camera bag fell straight down from my waist level and hit the concrete floor. The drop was about one meter inside a padded bag. Initially I inspected everything inside the restaurant and it all seemed ok.</p>

<p>I started checking my Paris images on a large monitor. Sure enough, everything from that morning was fine, but every image after lunch captured by the 17-55 was unsharp on the right side. That short drop indeed had impact damage, which apparently slightly bent the lens mount, and Nikon repair was right on the money.</p>

<p>As I said before, my Nikon equipment doesn't need repair very often, over 37 years. A couple of items have had warranty repair and I have dropped a few lenses. There has been only one time that Nikon repair gave me "impact damage" as a reason. It is only human nature to blame someone else, e.g. Nikon; it too took me a while to realize that they were actually right.</p>

<p>I have posted this story before, with an "after impact" image of a Paris fountain where the right side of the background is clearly unsharp while the left is very sharp. I also remember that the late Robert Hooper also posted an image of that same fountain, but his composition is far more creative than mine: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00W2mY</p>

<p>I now only go to restaurants that have carpet on the floor. :-)</p>

<p>P.S. this thread is about gray-market DSLRs, which Nikon USA will not fix. Therefore, out discussion about Nikon USA repair is really off topic.</p>

<p>Where is Henry Posner of B&H when we need him?</p>

<p>I was astonished yesterday to find the D5200 for sale at B&H for less than $500--and the image quality of the D5200 and D5300 is virtually identical.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Also, are there any caveats known to anybody, about <strong>Abe's of Maine</strong>?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I tried to buy from them once, and never again. They will try very hard to sell you on expensive accessories. BTW, they are not in Maine, they're in Brooklyn. Maine just sounds nicer, as does "Abe's". Marketing. I'd generally stick with B&H, Adorama, or Amazon for new items and KEH for used.</p>

<p>OP here ... greed got the better of me and I ordered the camera & lens from Abe's. The next day there was a message that I needed to call them. Thought that was normal, since I was in Japan when I placed the order and thought that might have triggered some suspicion at their end. No such issue - they told me that as a gray import the camera menus and documentation was in Chinese only! I knew straightaway that this was rubbish - since Nikon allows you to choose the language of the camera menu. So I simply canceled the order.<br>

Later, I read Shun Cheung's message and noted his very discreet comment about "confidence levels" and decided to do a simple Google check of Abe's. Came across <a href="http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/abes-of-maine.html">this </a>and a whole horde of similar bait and switch stories!</p>

<p>@Landrum</p>

<p>The D5200 is $496.95 at Adorama, too - with 4% cashback reward payable after 40 days!</p>