What to charge- Work for hire

<p>Hi, very interested in what I should quote a potential customer.<br>

Background: I do photography as a hobby and have done a few paid engagements (team photos), etc. I contacted this local promotion company previously and offered to shoot a pro beach volleyball event for free. I wanted to test the waters. The event covered about 6 days and they were very happy with my work. Said they would love to work with me in future on a paid engagement. They are the main promoter for a national university event championship coming up. I contacted them and the owner listed the multiple events and we left it as I would provide a quote. The events cover 5 days and total around 21 hrs of "event time". (Does not include my travel, arriving early, photoshop post production, prep , rentals, etc.<br>

I would really like to do the job, but I also want to be professional about it and not do it for next to nothing. I also need to consider this is a part time thing for me and I am not a pro who has been doing events like this for years. If you could offer a price range you believe a typical pro photographer would charge that would be great. I would probably stick with the low end of the range. Getting the job and the credit is the primary objective.<br>

Thanks</p>

<p> </p>

You should structure your bid this way:

 

1) Creative Fee

 

2) travel time if the total is over half a day (and bill it at half whatever your day rate will be for creative work) , and either

mileage or travel expenses, including lodging and a meal allowance if you'll be gone over night.)

 

3) digital services fee ( processing and delivery)

 

4) rentals and miscellaneous production charges including rental gear (if incurred)

 

As to what kind of creative fees you should charge, you should ask what their ballpark is. The other factors are pretty

much fixed expenses.

<p>Ellis covered just about everything except for factoring in how the images are to be used and for how long. There is a big difference between Editorial (one time use) and Advertising and Marketing usage. I would nail down the usage before quoting a fee.</p>

<p>First let me say, asking this type of question online you are going to get a multitude of answers. Most internet opinions (including mine) should be taken with a grain of salt. Ellis Vener truly has the experience and the fact he takes the time to answer forum questions is an incredibly huge benefit to this site. Follow whatever advice he shares.</p>

<p>That said let me offer some additional thoughts (yes please be skeptical this is the internet and I am only a photographer) Your title alludes to “Work for Hire” this is a horrible out of place phase aimed to steal copyright. The Work for Hire is really not for a simple artist commission its for scientists, software programers, etc. People working on big long term projects, studies etc.. 6 months / two years or more but not technically lifelong employees. Unless a company is offering you a 401k and health there is NO reason to sign this type of contract.</p>

<p>That brings me to the most important aspect of my opinion. You must have your contract signed! And it needs to have some serious legal verbiage to save your butt. Quite frankly I don’t believe(my opinion) any lawyer(today) can give you a defining answer on what you are asking to do. Licensing student athlete's images for advertising</p>

<p>“the main promoter for a national university event championship”</p>

<p>If you’ve watched the news these past couple of years you should know this is a HUGH topic, one that has not been settled and if they are handing you a contract with <em>work for hire</em> in it you can be assure there is verbiage putting you responsible for any liability. Are you (personally) going to get a signed model release from every signal player Not some blanket release the promoter thinks they have through the university. Again this is a hot topic that has not been settled. Does your contact guarantee that they will pay for all of your future unforeseen legal fees that may come from this assignment? Are you an LLC? Lose your car/ house for a hobby?</p>

<p>“Getting the job and the credit is the primary objective”</p>

<p>Credit or a byline to an image in my humble opinion does not help and is not worth any value negotiating any contract. Honestly in a big event you are most likely going to get put in a less than optimal shooting location where you won’t be able to get cool new angles for your portfolio.</p>

<p>While Ellis is absolutely correct let me add to his “Creative Fee” category a separate licensing category to spell out additional costs for any use in unknown future promotional campaigns. Again the student will be out of school looking for work when their image is being use to promote an elaborate entertainment event selling sugar water and hot dogs for ten dollars.<br /> (Looks like Tony covered this while I was writing my long winded response)</p>

<p>Personally for me who has photographed big events for editorial clients and I love shooting sports anything less than a first class agreement / contract reviewed by my lawyer - the absolute headache this project presents is not worth it! Please don’t think because it’s not Ohio State football you’ll be fine - bull, bull, bull this is a hornet’s nest and you need a serious contract signed and your own attorney to review and spell out every precaution you need to get, i.e. model releases custom written to the attorney’s specifications. Remember what you are proposing to do: Licensing student athlete's images for advertising</p>

<p>----</p>

<p>p.s. a little about me I absolutely hate when people on the internet answer questions “have your attorney review it, what does your lawyer think blah, blah, blah” an attorney charges ridiculous fees I’m simply not going to ask because even a phone conversation costs more than I’ll spend in food for a whole week. I tell you this because I don’t want you to think my advice about getting a lawyer to review your contract is normal your question relates to a serious headache one that I would not take on unless there was a nice boat involved.</p>

<p>p.p.s even after they have signed your contract and you believe everything is golden they hand you another contract at the door telling you that you have to sign it before you can enter the event (when you're getting your credentials) and of course this at the door contract takes away all your previously negotiated agreements/contract. just a heads up</p>

<p>Thank you for all of the great information and points you have raised. I perhaps used the an incorrect phrase "work for hire" . The client did not propose this, I assumed my work would be considered done under this type of engagement, as I would be doing work for them during 5 days. I have since structured the proposal that I own the images and included licensing period and a page of terms and conditions I was able to get related to photography services.<br>

One new question: Since I will be providing images throughout 5 day event for their web sites , before I will submit my invoice, how do you handle a line like this?<br>

"RIGHTS LICENSED ONLY UPON FULL PAYMENT OF TOTAL BILLING AND SUBJECT TO TERMS AND CONDITIONS BELOW"<br>

They "will" be using the images before payment. e.g. they can use the images but will allows a photographer to go after the client if they don't end up paying? <br>

Thanks again</p>