Strange splotches in my developed color negatives... help?

Hi all,

 

I recently began shooting film in a couple of rangefinders and as part of that effort I've also decided to try my hand at developing film at home.

 

I've shot a couple of test rolls over the past few weeks but every time I go to develop them I'm getting these weird splotches in my color negatives (scanned w/ an epson v300 flatbed scanner).

 

A bit of background on my process... I'm using Unicolor's C41 developer kit with a Paterson tank system.

To keep things at the proper temp, I'm using a heated water bath where I put all the containers of chemistry.

I use a timer app on my tablet with a series of timers for each step of the process.

Any help / insights on what I might be doing wrong is greatlly appreciated.

 

TIA!

Ray

That looks to me like dried hard water residue. The proof would be on the negatives-if you can see spots that look like dried water drops(i.e. like what you might see on a car windshield) that's your problem.

 

Are you using a rinse agent at the proper dilution? If not, start using one(btw, having the rinse agent too concentrated can cause issues also-I've found Photoflo at 1:200 to be too much). If you are using a rinse agent at a proper dilution, consider switching to distilled/deionized water for your final rinse.

Those are water spots from meninerals dissolved in the water used to mix the chemicals.

Mix the chemicals with filtered water (Pur or similar) or distilled water.

Follow the directions in the C-41 kit, your last step should be the Stabilizer, no rinse afterwards.

That looks to me like dried hard water residue. The proof would be on the negatives-if you can see spots that look like dried water drops(i.e. like what you might see on a car windshield) that's your problem.

 

Are you using a rinse agent at the proper dilution? If not, start using one(btw, having the rinse agent too concentrated can cause issues also-I've found Photoflo at 1:200 to be too much). If you are using a rinse agent at a proper dilution, consider switching to distilled/deionized water for your final rinse.

Yes, I'm almost too anal in the way I'm following their directions LOL.

 

I've also just heard from Unicolor and they also say it's probably hard water.

 

That said, our tap water is hard water so I'll by another kit and try using distilled water next time.

 

Those are water spots from meninerals dissolved in the water used to mix the chemicals.

Mix the chemicals with filtered water (Pur or similar) or distilled water.

Follow the directions in the C-41 kit, your last step should be the Stabilizer, no rinse afterwards.

Definitely am ending the process with the Stabilizer (agitated for 15 sec's, then let sit for 30 sec's. No, I'm not rinsing it afterwards.

 

Thank you both! Hopefully switching to distilled water with the next kit works better. I just hope I don't have to use it for the 3 min wash step as that could end up being a lot water to buy.

You'll have to use decontaminated water all the way through the process - especially for the last washing stage, which is the water that will dry on the film.

 

Continuous washing isn't necessary. A change of water 6 times over 3 to 5 minutes is just as effective.

 

Depending on the degree and type of hardness in your tap water; simple boiling may get rid of the hardness sufficiently, or use of a commercial water softener like "Calgon", or both. It doesn't hurt to add a water filter to your supply tap either.

 

I don't know how much a 2 gallon flagon of drinking water costs, but that may be a cheaper option than distilled water. The water used for processing doesn't have to be distilled, just free of lime and particles. Bottled spring water probably fits the bill. Not sparkling water obviously.

Edited April 19, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

I don't know how hard it is to find, but deionized water should do. You might find that in the store near the distilled water bottles.

 

For chemistry labs, it is usual to have a a faucet, made of plastic and not metal, the dispenses deionized water.

Soft water replaces all the metal ions with sodium using ion exchange resin.

 

Deionized uses similar resins to replace metal ions with hydronium ions, and anions with hydroxide ions, usually in separate containers.

You might find a place that will fill up your five gallon plastic bottle for a low price.

 

But if the stabilizer is mixed with distilled water, and that is the last bath, that should keep water spots away.

Thanks Rodeo Joe & Glen H. I'll try using distilled water with the stabilizer. I'm planning to buy another batch of development chems anyway so I'll just do it with the next batch and use some calgon in the Wash Water since buying a gallon of distilled water for each time I develop a roll will frankly get old really quick IMHO.

Thanks Rodeo Joe & Glen H.

 

I plan on buying another batch of photo chems as I'm now on my 8th roll (2 of the rolls were expired and didn't contain usable images) and the chemicals are said to be useful from 8-12 rolls of film depending on if it's 24 or 36 exposures.

FWIW, I only use DI for the final steps that touch the film and use tap for everything else.

 

At work, I'm one of those guys who has the faucet that Glen H mentions. In fact, I have a second one that comes right out the back end of resin bed tanks and will fill a 1 gallon bottle or 4L flask in a few seconds.

 

I can't be TOO generous with our DI water as we're pinching pennies everywhere, but at the same time the stuff costs us pennies a gallon. I think we pay Culligan around $125 to change the resin beds, and I seem to recall our regular service man saying that they were good for about 1000 gallons in this area.

 

The only thing I really have to be stingy about is the ultra pure(18MΩ/cm) as the resins don't have anything close to the life of our "big" DI systems and are also quite expensive. We have a go/no go light on the "house" system that goes out when conductivity goes above 1MΩ/cm. There's very little need for ultra pure water(you know if you need it-mostly if you're doing electrochemistry, HPLC, or CE), so there's no reason for us to have huge generation capacity. Our regular DI system is a continuous loop about 2 miles long through the building all plumbed in Tygon. The ultrapure systems use a mixture of HDPE and PTFE.

I wonder if using a Zero water pitcher is sufficient to remove the harmful contaminants?

What's a Zero water pitcher Ray? Never heard of it. Is that a fridge water "purifier"?

 

Ahh! Just looked 'em up on Google. Overpriced activated charcoal fridge filter jugs. No good for reducing hardness, and for that price you can get an inline softening filter.

I sometimes get similar spots if I don't filter my water.

Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

works just fine for eliminating them.

What's a Zero water pitcher Ray? Never heard of it. Is that a fridge water "purifier"?

 

Ahh! Just looked 'em up on Google. Overpriced activated charcoal fridge filter jugs. No good for reducing hardness, and for that price you can get an inline softening filter.

Their claim is they reduce soluble particles to zero. They even include a meter so you will know it's working.

 

http:/www.drkarenslee.com/zero-water-filter-review/

 

I will check with my chemist friend whom I commute with on the train as well since I'd rather keep things as simple as possible.

I sometimes get similar spots if I don't filter my water.

Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

works just fine for eliminating them.

Thanks. What filter system are you using?

click the tar get line in post 12, its a link to their listing of the Pur Clasic faucet filter.

click the tar get line in post 12, its a link to their listing of the Pur Clasic faucet filter.

LOL, I thought it was some errant advertising. Thanks!

Dr Karen sounds like she has a doctorate in fussiness. Wonder where she bought it?

 

Forget those food-faddist products aimed at "clean eaters" and other marginal eating disorder types. You just want something mainstream to remove the hardness without any hype.

Softened water is not the same as distilled or deionized water. Softening simply replaces calcium and magnesium with equivalent amounts of sodium. Bottled drinking water has natural or added minerals. In both cases, you will get streaks and spots on the film.

 

The active ingredient in Calgon is a polyphosphate chemical, which attaches to calcium and magnesium so that it doesn't react with soap or detergents to produce an insoluble residue. Borax is another complexing agent with similar effects. With powdered softeners you are adding more chemicals, not actually removing hardness.

 

It's also important to remove excess water (or stabilizer) from the film before hanging to dry. Even distilled water will distort the film if allowed to dry unevenly. I prefer to use a rubber squeegee, which is easy to keep clean. Sponges can collect debris in the ports, including dried chemicals, which scratch or contaminate the film. In a pinch, I've run the film strip between two fingers.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Ed_Ingold

I prefer to use a rubber squeegee, which is easy to keep clean. Sponges can collect debris in the ports, including dried chemicals, which scratch or contaminate the film. In a pinch, I've run the film strip between two fingers.

 

I went for a long time without a dedicated drying tool.

 

A couple of months ago, I was placing a big order with Freestyle and thought I'd toss in a squeegee with it. I bought their house branded one.

 

In any case, I've found that whatever I do it usually still scratches the ever loving crap out of my film. I've cleaned and washed it and have examined it under a loupe-I can't find any obvious problems. Looking at negatives where I've had issues, often the scratches only start part of the way down the film making me think it picks up grit from the film.

 

BTW, my set-up is a bit low tech since I have to break down my film "darkroom"(the only dark part is the changing bag) when I'm finished. It's a long story and not worth getting into, but printing darkroom is physically separate(I need to shift over to developing film in my printing room, but right now it's impractical). In any case, I say all that to mention how I physically dry roll films. Basically, I hang a coat hanger from the shower curtain rod, clip one end of the film into that, and then use a binder clip on the other end to weight it down.

 

I gave up on it and went back to using the finger squeegee on sheet film.

Film will dry flatter if you use a weighted clip. Clips with teeth are less likely to slip and dump your film on the dirty floor.

Rubber sqeegee - Nooooooo!

Thanks all. Gonna try distilled water for the next roll I develop so I'll see if it get's rid of the problems. I'll also be using new developer and this time round will use distilled instead of filtered water for mixing up the developer/blix/stabilizer solutions.

 

I hope this resolves it albeit using a gallon of distilled water per roll is gonna be a pita. I guess I'll be buying them 4-5 gallons at a time then if it's what works.

Film will dry flatter if you use a weighted clip. Clips with teeth are less likely to slip and dump your film on the dirty floor.

Like you, I also discovered that I can just use regular office supply binder clips. Not having an issue with curved film that putting them under a big heavy stack of paper for an hour or 2 doesn't resolve.

 

Rubber sqeegee - Nooooooo!

Are you joking or is there really something you don't like about using rubber squeegee's?

Squeegees are fine for glass windows.

I do not use them on film nor can I recommend their use, too great a risk of damage.

A good friend who worked at a commercial film developer in the San Jose, CA area said he just used his fingers. Someone else recommended using a real soft leather chamois to do it rather than a film squeegee.

 

Well I hadn't been having issues with scratching the film using my fingers but I'm still getting strange water/development marks so I'm gonna have to do something different.