Pyrocat with BTZS Tubes - Dilution Question

I asked on APUG but seem to be getting nowhere...

 

I need some assistance and I am hoping someone with real-world experience might chime in. I am trying to use Pyrocat-HD (1:1:100) @

21° in BTZS tubes to develop FP4+. I am having tests done by The View Camera Store and the initial test for dilution is to develop for 4

minutes.

 

The problem is that the step wedge is too thin at 4 minutes using the above parameters. I barely have any density at step 11.

 

* If I am getting an exceptionally thin neg at 4 minutes, does it point to an error on my part or a characteristic of Pyrocat-HD?

 

* What is the best dilution and/or temp to use Pyrocat-HD with FP4+ in BTZS tubes?

 

Thank you,

 

Jim

<p>Just my 2 cents worth as I have used it just not in BTZS tubes. Have you tried extending the development or trying 1+1+50? What size film are you using? It may be expiring/exhausting too quickly at the 1+1+100 dilution if you are using larger than 4x5.</p>

<p>e-mail Fred at the View Camera Store and ask him--he's going to be doing the tests. </p>

<p>My experience with Pyrocat would be that your development time should be closer to 12-15 minutes. I'm not sure where you got the 4 min time from. It's amazing that you got any density at all.</p>

Hi Larry,

 

I'm using 60ml of developer per 4x5 sheet. Fred told me that it seems to be taking a long time for the 1:1:100 dilution to

begin working (of course I have no idea how he knows this).

 

What's puzzling me is that Sandy King uses these params and says that he gets excellent results. I did note, and to your point, that Sandy calls for 75ml per sheet. Would 15ml of working solution make that big of a difference?

 

http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/html/times.html

"e-mail Fred at the View Camera Store and ask him--he's going to be doing the tests."

 

Better than that: I spoke to him on the phone this afternoon. Hence, my post here.

 

"My experience with Pyrocat would be that your development time should be closer to 12-15 minutes. I'm not sure where

you got the 4 min time from. It's amazing that you got any density at all."

 

I got the 4 min time from Fred. He uses this time to determine if the dilution is correct. My times with Pyrocat are much

like yours except when using constant agitation. FWIW, BTZS is or was used successfully by Sandy King.

<p>On http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Pyrocat/pyrocat.html (half way down the page) the times are closer to what I suggested.</p>

<p>Looking back on my notes....I didn't keep any. I only used it briefly and moved on to my own formulations.</p>

<p>It looks like you are going to have to eyeball your own development and just develop longer until it looks right.</p>

<p>Jim, I use a drum. However I also only use 150 ml developer per roll and do no LF.</p>

<p>I did have keeping issues with Pyrocat-HD/MC and wound up using my own formulations to help it last longer. My drum times ball park around 8 mins with close to the same ingredient concentrations.</p>

Peter, my drum times are about the same. I was hoping someone had used this combination with BTZS.

<p>The development times are way too short even if you are using E.I. 50.</p>

<p>Jim, I don't see there being much difference. The tubes are effectively a drum in every aspect except potential to spin the tubes really fast.</p>

<p>Jim - Does Fred use this to see some level of initial emergence of an image as part of a routine before the actual EI testing?</p>

"Does Fred use this to see some level of initial emergence of an image as part of a routine before the actual EI testing?"

 

Precisely so, Craig.

"Jim, I don't see there being much difference. The tubes are effectively a drum in every aspect except potential to spin the

tubes really fast."

 

This is a pre-test that Fred has asked me to do.

 

Sandy, in another forum, suggested a spread of times 5-8-12-16-20 minutes, with a 5 min presoak. Sandy described the 5

min. test neg as going to "give a negative with very low contrast and somewhat less than full film speed". This describes

what I saw at 4 minutes: no density past step 11.

 

I don't know what Fred is looking for other than density. Even after describing my last 4 minute test via email before

mailing it back, he said he still needed to test the density to know if the dilution is correct. I suspect he is trying to get a

rapid development time and this developer, being kind of slow, is not behaving as he would expect from D76 or DD-X.

 

I'll communicate Sandy's suggestions to Fred and move from there.