Problem at the 36th exposure with a F3

<p>Hi, I am getting streaks on the 36th exposures with my F3. See below (effect enhanced). I don't recall felling something wrong with the last photos, could it come during rewiding?<br>

Thanks in advance for your comments</p><div></div>

<p>Do you always get it, every 36th exposure? I recall having seen something like this once on a recent roll, but one roll after, nothing like it, so I figured it was more the winding/unwinding that could have caused it. But I could be way wrong on that.</p>

<p>Might it be chemical residue, perhaps fixer? To the left of the arrows it appears as a rounded edge left by evaporating liquid.</p>

<p>Wouter, yes only at the 36th exposure, and not all of them. I suspect winding/unwinding, but I have never noticed something ~mechanically unusual (although I may have missed it). Also I never try to go to a 37th photo.<br>

Howard, the spot on the left is salt or something like that. The streaks are of a different nature, clearly mechanical.</p>

<p>Do you roll your own film cassetts. Maybe its something mechanical in the cartridge that only shows up at the last frame before rewind. Like, if the felt lip of the casette is loose, when you change directions to rewind, it may stick into the film.</p>

<p>No, just regular cartridges.<br>

Maybe there is something wrong at the initiation of the rewinding process?</p>

<p>I've got essentially the same sorts of marks, but in my case no doubt at all that it was residual crud from something in the developing, probably fixer as suggested.</p><div></div>

<p>JMD, in your case the problem affects the image Inside the film. In my case the silver grains do not seem to be more or less processed, the defect appears to occur superficially.</p>

<p>Actually, no. The residue is <em>on the surface</em> of the film, not in the film. It's a white substance, and can be washed off, but not easily. NTIM.</p>

<p>"can be washed off" So your white substance is not on the gelatin side? my problem is on the surface of the gelatin side.</p>

<p>Didier -- that vertical line looks to me like a mark made on the film during developing. I assume you are doing your own developing. If you are loading your reels with the tail end (the 36th exposure) going in first, it could be from the clip in the middle of a stainless steel reel. Either you're cutting the end off two short and clipping onto the image area when you load the reel, or maybe you're clipping onto the tail of the film but as it makes the first wrap around the center of the reel something is hitting the picture area. If you are loading with the last frame to the outside of the reel (which is the way I do it) maybe something else is hitting it. Look for something perpendicular to the edge of the film. Could also come from a clip when you hang the film up to dry. The round mark to the top center of the picture is just a drying mark from water or chemical residue. My gut is that all of this is happening during developing, not in the camera.</p>

<p>Craig I think that you are right, I might be doing something wrong with the reel (Paterson "system 4"). I load the film with the last frame outside. And about the distance between the cut and frame 36 there are two little metallic balls on each side of the outer edge of the reel for some purpose (preventing the film to go backward during processing?). Perhaps I should try to push the end of the film past those balls, if I can.. Still I dont see how some pressure on both sides of the film could end up in something that looks like the result of a continuous strain perpendicular to the edge of the film.<br>

Not the clip, yes the round mark is a drying mark</p><div></div>

<p>Didier, you should not have to <strong>push </strong>the film at all except to start it on the reel when you begin to load (actually, I pull it). You must move the first little bit past the two ball bearings to get it started. After that, you simply oscillate the two sides back and forth to load the film. The last part of the film will move past the ball bearing on its own. When the reel is properly loaded, there should be no film outside ball bearing.</p>

<p>Yes, I have seen some YouTube videos, where the demonstrator loads the reel by touching the film and pushing it on the reel. I think that person is simply asking for troubles and damaged film.</p>

<p>Getting negative sheets with 7 rows of 5, I always rewind after <em>35</em> frames.</p>

<p>Brooks, "You must move the first little bit past the two ball bearings to get it started. After that, you simply oscillate the two sides back and forth to load the film". This is what I am doing, like everybody, But I don't insert the end of the film (i.e. position 36) beyond the insertion point in the reel, a few cm before the ball bearings, about the distance to the 36th frame. Why? up to now I did not see the need...So next time I will try to follow your recommendation: "no film outside ball bearing"<br>

Mendel, why negative sheets with 7 rows of five? </p>

<p>I hope that solves your problem.</p>

<p>As for storing negatives, I use this Print File page:</p>

<p>http://www.adorama.com/FSPF357100.html</p>

<p>which hold seven strips of six frames. It takes an oversized binder like this one:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.adorama.com/FSBBBK.html">http://www.adorama.com/FSBBBK.html</a> or this one:</p>

<p>http://www.adorama.com/FSPFBG.html</p>

<p> </p>

<p>When I load stainless steel reels, the film often sticks out a little. It might not if I cut off the leader, but I usually don't. So, I usually load with the end (exposure 36) toward the center of the reel. If the leader didn't develop right, though it usually does, it wouldn't bother actual exposures.<br>

It has been many years since I used a Yankee II for 35mm film, and I don't remember if I had this problem with that one. (The Yankee II uses the rocking motion, but doesn't have the one way balls.)<br>

I also use 7 strips of 5, and sometimes have one strip left. I might use one negative sheet for the extra strips.<br>

What happens in the Paterson reel when the film hits the center?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>What happens in the Paterson reel when the film hits the center?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>With commercial 36 exposure rolls, which sometimes gives me up to 38 exposures, I have never had it happen. </p>

 

<p>Never hit the center (never felt some kind of sudden obstacle), although sometimes (i.e. not always) moving the last part of the film becomes increasingly hard.</p>

<p>Like Glenn, I always loaded these reels with the last exposure inmost, and the leader at the outside. The only problem with this is that you must be very careful if you cut the film off the reel, as some cameras will give you a good last frame very close to the end, and if you're working in a bag, it can be difficult to avoid damaging the last frame.</p>

<p>How do you do to load the last exposure first?? you must unroll the entire film outside the cartridge, cut it, find back the end, all that without damaging the film (fingerprints, scratches), and just for preserving the last frame when Inside the reel? And in a bag (I have no darkroom)?</p>

<p>Hi Didier,</p>

<p>Like Glenn and Matthew, I, too, load the end of the film spool first. Like you, I use a changing bag.</p>

<p>I pry the end off the cassette, and remove the spool with the film. Then I cut off the tongue. Handling the film <strong>by the edge</strong>, I advance to the end of the roll. The film rolls up by itself. When I reach the end, I cut off the spool. Since I am now at the end of the roll - frame 36 - I feed it onto the Patterson reel. I stick my little finger through the roll of film to guide film. The only part of the film my little finger touches is the leader, sans tongue.</p>

<p>I find I have more problems cutting off the spool with the film on the Patterson reel than if I cut if off before I begin to load the reel. Now if I just had three hands... <grin></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Sounds to me like knitting in the dark... Nevertheless I will try to apply your protocol, at first in full light with a dead film. Thanks for the recipe..</p><div></div>

<p>Didier, negative sheets having 7 rows of 5 are readily available for me, and fit nicely in a typical 3 ring binder. I'm just thinking, if your issue is only on frame 36, if you sacrifice that frame, just rewind after 35 exposures, avoid temptation, you're problem is gone? Obviously you're slightly shortchanged, but...</p>

<p>Mendel, yes, I could at least avoid putting the photo of the century at position 36, but that would be for me a source of frustration and anxiety, most likely to lead to insomnia. I will rather work on the reel handling with the excellent advice posted above.<br>

Regarding the 7 rows/5, I understand your point, however I find bizarre this format in an environment used to work in base-6 counting (see scanner film holders, namely).</p>