Pentacon Six, Want to buy one.

<p>So I need a Medium format camera that I can use for Urban Exploration, I have used a Bronica ETRSi previously but since the body has died I fell back to a TLR camera that cannot do any wide-angle :-( . I am planning to buy a new body for the ETRSi but I'm not eager anymore to use it at (dirty) locations. So I thought a Pentacon Six is a possible replacement. I have seached the net a little and some say it's good others that it's not that good. Of course it all depends on the state of the camera of course and the right method of loading the film. Would this camera be a good choice and if so were can one buy such a beast best?? They are floating on the bay but most have no guarantee and I rather spend a little more to have a good one than to have to send it somewhere for repairs. Anybody have some adresses (most preferable inside Europe)??</p>

<p>Many thanx.</p>

<p>I would avoid it unless you really want to spend the very least amount of money. The Pentacon Six/Kiev-60 SLRs are a pretty bad design and very issues-prone (especially after all these years). They look built like tanks, but the winding and shutter mechanisms are pretty fragile.</p>

<p>A solid Japanese SLR (or TLR like the Mamiya C series) will be a better choice in my humble opinion. A Mamiya RB/RZ67 with a wide angle is not that expensive and very unlikely to fail, so you have the option to sell it later on and get your money back.</p>

<p>I have no experience with 6x6 SLRs but the Pentacon Six and the Kiev60 are completely different designs, although they look somewhat similar. But noone would say that, say, a Leicaflex and a Spotmatic are based on the same design...<br>

Anyhow, I have heard that the Kiev60 are much better designed than the P6 and avoids some of the design issues of the P6.</p>

 

<p>The P6 is a huge and nice beast but basic, lowtech and with its default. The main and most known is frame overlapping... but following correctly method to prevent that (available online on various site) and it's OK.<br>

On the plus side, are the lenses, most of them are top quality!!! The low cost so not too much stress using the camera in quite ruff condition...<br>

A very good adress in europe is: <a href="http://www.baierfoto.de">www.baierfoto.de</a> I'm more than happy with their services and can't imagine use my P6 without their Kiev 60 TTL prism adapted for it.<br>

OK, you can find better MF camera, you'll probably receive plenty of (very good) advices recommanding such or such other (very good) camera but I like my P6 and at my point of view, just the size and weight of the combo (P6+TTL prism+lens, the beautifull 180 is huge but the nice 50 with it's hood a little bit shorter but that hood is WIDE) is a limitation.<br>

Trivia: the russian 2x converter "Arsenal MC Konverter K-6B 2x" is quite nice because the converter optic part can be removed out and the remaining tube is ready to be used for macro!</p>

 

<p>I have the Kiev 6C and the Kiev 60 as well as the Pentacon 6, and my favourite set up the Kiev 6c with a later Russian 80mm lens. The Pentacon 6 is a great camera, if a little bigger than the Kiev, but I like the LH shutter release on the 6C.<br>

Optically the Biometer lens on the Pentacon is if anything fractionally more contrasty than a late Russian 80mm, and both are nicer than the early lenses, however the Biometer, in my experience, is often found with a stuck diaphram & focus, while the Russian lenses appear to often work right out of the box. All three cameras needed some setting up before they worked as I wanted, but you can either sort this out with the repairer recommended in a previous post, or buy from Hartblei or any other supplier that does this before you get the camera.<br>

I sold my Kiev 80 ('blad copy) as I could not eliminate all light leaks, so I cannot recommend that, and my Bronica ETRS stays in the case unless I want to run 220 film for any reason. It is a capable camera, despite the way it eats batteries, but I can't warm to it I'm afraid.<br>

The attached picture is take with another combination that seem to get used a lot - Pentacon 6 body with russian 80mm lens from a Kiev 60.</p>

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<p>Think Norita/Warner66/Ritrek-----I know not always easy to find, but great cameras, and rumored to be Nikkor glass</p>

<p>I have a Pentacon 6 and providing you are careful when loading and advancing film, it performs beautifully. This is mainly because of the CZJ Flektogon, Biometar and Sonnar glass that goes on it. I have no other camera that comes close to it in IQ. In a similar price range (including lens) you might consider a Fujica GW690.</p>

<p>I wanted a Pentacon six for many years, but was disappointed when I finally got one for a number of reasons, the main one being how fragile it is. Mine needed frequent repairs (which I had done by Eddie Smolov, in Brooklyn). I replaced it with an Arax 60(modified Kiev 60) which has proved to be far more reliable, albeit considerably larger [i'm puzzled by an earlier poster's claim that the Kiev is smaller than the Pentacon--not so]. I bought my Arax without an Arsat standard lens and use the 80 mm Zeiss Jena Biometar from the P-6, as well as a 180 mm Sonnar and 50 mm Flektogon. I've added some Ukrainian lenses too (120 mm Vega and 30 mm Arsat) and am quite happy with the system.</p>

<p>I love my Pentacon 6TL, but I am not sure that I would want to <em>have</em> to depend on it. The main problem is the tricky loading and film advance. The plus side is that the lenses are first rate. Some of the "zebra" models (with stripes) like the optically superb Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 especially can have aperture problems (actually fairly easily fixed, but prone to return), but most like the Biotars 80mm, 120mm, and Flektogon 50mm work without problems in my experience. I also have a Mir 45mm, but it is optically no where near the Flektogon 50mm in optical quality. </p>

<p>I also have heard that the Kiev 60 is mechanically better, but have no personal experience of it.</p>

<p>The Norita looks to be a virtual clone of the Pentacon/Kievs, but I don't know it either.</p>

<p>None of these cameras could ever possibly be considered "stealth" cameras. They stand out like a sore elephant.</p>

<p>OK, I looked at the Arax website and I must say, it's tempting. 350$ for a brand new Medium Format camera looks like a good deal, anyone has experiences with them?? I mean, I have to shell out 200$ at least to find a ETRSi body and that is second hand, these beasts are brand new and supposedly checked well before being sold. I'm just curious.</p>

<p>If you end up buying from Arax, and normally use a waist-level finder, as I do, I'd suggest trying to get one of the Kiev Rolleiflex-copy WLFs rather than the Hasslblad-copy one. Much better IMO [but then I use a Rollei TLR for most of my work, so it's what I'm more used to].</p>

<p>Forget the Pentacon, get a replacement ERT body or have your present one fixed.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>OK, I looked at the Arax website and I must say, it's tempting. 350$ for a brand new Medium Format camera looks like a good deal</p>

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<p>Uh, I'd rather get a used Mamiya with modern glass instead "new" Russian gear for that amount of money. I mean, I bought my Киев-6С for €45 (including 80mm lens) from the German eBay -- it's fun to have and I shot a couple of rolls with it, but for serious medium format photography I use my (very affordable) RZ67 (Mk.1). Or I use my selection of K-60 lenses on my EOS 5D with the tilt adapter.</p>

<p>Get an Arax and start looking around the bay for a decent set of lenses. You'll want at least the 50mm flektogon, either a 80mm Arsat or the biometar and the Sonnar 180.<br>

After these if you can try to get the 30 mm fisheye and if you want to carry it all in one bag get a subscription to a good chiropractor ;-)<br>

The Kiev/Arax has a more robust film transport mechanism than the pentacon 6, but even than the key is to not let the film advance lever snap back but bring it back, and wind it in one single stroke. <br>

I have not worked with Arax directly but I have not heard any dissonant sounds about them so I think that they are trust worthy</p>

 

<p>"<em>I fell back to a TLR camera that cannot do any wide-angle :-(" </em>- Mamiya TLR with replaceable lenses has a wide lens as well as telephotos up to 250mm.</p>

<p>The Mamiya TLR's are pretty expensive here in Belgium and almost impossible to find, let alone the lenses. If I have to order in the US it would be more expensive and I have the risk of customs (granted, with the ARAX too) but I will still have an old rig that might go bad with no warranty. The ARAX company gives you a brand new camera with 1 year warranty, if there is a weak point in the camera it will certainly show inside a year. I am thinking strongly about getting an ARAX 60 (I don't care about the 88), they look fine machines and I have read a lot of good comments about them on the web. People who really used (or are still using) the ARAX 60 may always contact me for their experiences with that particular camera. Mind you that I'm not using camera's for professional use, I shoot maybe 150 rolls a year max.</p>

<p>You can buy Bronica ETRS bodies on eBay in the UK for aroud £50 (approx 58 Euros / $80). You'd be far better buying a couple of spare ETRS bodies from the UK. The ETRS is far better and far more reliable than a Pentacon or Arax. If you're buying from the UK there will be no tax or import duty when shipping to Belgium. There is an ETRS body on eBay now for a buy now price of £49.99. Stick to what you know. Bronicas are good, reliable cameras and they're ridiculously cheap for what they are.</p>

<p>No bulb on the ETRS, and I definitely need that (and I don't like to work with that T setting on the lens).</p>

<p>Uncle Goose,<br>

Since you mention that you live in Belgium, it would be a good ideal to look into the Pentacon 6 as you had your heart set on it. Send it either to BaierFoto or directly or Pentacon Dresden for a CLA. Dresden will install for you a MLU and a newer Rolei screen to "update" your Pentacon 6. Look at this site to answer whatever you might have on your mind.Most of the Pentacon 6 could be bought cheaply at the flea markets there.<br>

http://www.pentaconsix.com/<br>

There is a wealth of information on that site to help you decide which lenses to buy (Zeiss Biometar, Flektogon, & Sonnar)<br>

Their is a section in which the author writes about having Pentacon Dresden overhaul his Pentacon 6 into a hybrid Exakta 66.</p>

<p>Evan</p>

<p> </p>

<p>hey uncle goose<br>

I'm also from Belgium If it's not too far or too difficult I can help you out or give advice. contact me trough my personal profile.</p>