M9 full specs leaked

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by hultstrom|1, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. Leica probably inadvertently put up their next M-system information folder at: http://m9.leica-camera.com/res/dnl/en/m9_brochure_english_RZ_low.1.pdf
    It was quickly removed again, but the info got out. In short:
    23.9mm x 35.8mm
    18.5 megapixel
    16bit DNG RAW files
    ISO 80-2500
    shutter speed 32s-1/4000s
    flash sync 1/180s
    Find more at rangefinderforum.com: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78976
    The PDF is still circulating, get yours now.
    /M
     
  2. The most important spec is the price.
     
  3. Nah, if you have to ask you are not the demographic. =)
     
  4. At this point, they're playing us like a fiddle. A few days from announcement, "leak" is not really the case.
     
  5. I'm glad to see the M7/MP still featured. For patients like me there can be no future if the past is forgotten. But it would have been really great to see the M7 get a new shutter to 1/4000.
    My favorite page of the brochure was the "Accessories" photo. It's a shame that the female models' feet were cut off, 6/6.
    I want to prod the forum, Leica promised more on the video, is this it? M9 and X1? If this brochure is accurate, 9/9/09 can be missed without missing to much.
    I guess the only digital that I could afford is the Leicasonic w/o the dot.
    Go Leica! The M9 as shown here is totally kick ass. I hope to see this forum fill with great photos soon.
    Feeling retro in a slum...
     
  6. bms

    bms

    No more IR filter - yeah. I am guessing that my M8 will NOT become an instant classic and command high prices but rather go for less, and as such I wonder how much I would have go fork over for the "upgrade" :(
    But it certainly reads well. I'll want to see high ISO samples though before I mortgage my house.....
     
  7. Lots of interesting detail, including Leica 90mm 2.8 no longer included in their list of lenses.
     
  8. Too late, I just upgraded (digitally) to D700.....will just have to continue Leica photography with the M2 and IIIF.
     
  9. LCD monitor specs:
    Leica M9 ... 220,000 dots
    Panasonic G1 ... 460,000 dots
    Canon EOS 7D ... 920,000 dots
     
  10. Leica M photography is about capturing decisive moments, not about chimpiing the LCD monitor.
    If you want to shoot, chimp and reshoot, perhaps you'd prefer the S2. :)
     
  11. Leica....... 920,000 pictures in museums
    Canon..... 220,000 pictures in museums (maybe)
    Panasonic.....?
     
  12. Well, after all this excitement of the coming of M9, I wonder why other brands are not coming forward to challenge Leica. It will be interesting for the sake of (price) competition if the late brand Contax, for instance, rises once again. Zeiss has already a bunch of good ZM lenses out there.
     
  13. Interesting that the M8/8.2 is not included (presumab;y discontinued). I wonder if this means that the M9 will be not much more expensive? - after all, the only difference in manufacturing cost ought to be the increased cost of the FF sensor.
     
  14. yehh... you'll need every one of those dots on the LCD to check Noctilux pics that you tried to focus with the .58 magnification viewfinder:)
     
  15. 'Leica [film]....... 920,000 pictures in museums'

    Leica [digital].....?
     
  16. I wonder if this means that the M9 will be not much more expensive?​
    The M9 will be 500 Euros more expensive than the M8.2 - including VAT.
     
  17. I guess we can expect M8/M8.2 resale prices to go into freefall.
     
  18. Well, I've seen the PDF and feel like the kid who peeked at his presents before Christmas. Happily I was wrong about one thing: the M9 is not an elephant but appears to be quite compact. It is apparently does not need UV/IR cut filters. Also, apparently coding is not crucial. I like the M9 and I'll get one. Somehow.
    One thing about the brochure that disturbed me. There is no mention of the M8 / M8.2. We won't have the M8 to kick around anymore?
     
  19. I guess my concern is that the large files will be too time consuming on my computer. The M8.2 files work well in my Adobe PS Elements program on my three year old computer, but I wonder if 18mp will be too much for acceptable processing speed. (I know this is an imprecise question, but perhaps some reasonable comment could be made.)
     
  20. does it really matter about the lcd resolution? i had hoped that the M9 would omit the useless screen at the back.
     
  21. Peter; we got our 35 Megapixel scan back when the fastest CPU on the planet was a 166Mhz Pentium.
    Our base machines about a year later were a 200Mhz Pentium Pro with 512 megs of ram; the ram along cost about what a M9 cost today; probably more with inflation. The same 1996 motherboards are in use today; and now sport 333Mhz Pentium II's; dual CPU server CPU's. One rotate the 105 Meg scans 90 degrees in9 secinds with one cpu; in 7 seconds with two cpus.

    Fast Forward to today; an Office depot computer I bought last January set me back the sames as what my used Noctilux cost me in 1978; 350 bucks. The box has 3 gigs of ram; card reader, 320 gigs HDA, lan card, even dialup modem I wanted too; plus DVD burner. All I added was Nero; since I prefer it to the canned HP stuff.
    Both the 1996 and 2009 boxes handle a 105 meg file with ease; the modern box does a raw conversion quicker; about 10 to 15 times quicker.

    The box I am on at home today is a 1 Ghz pentium III with 1 gig of ram; it rotates a 105 meg file off my scan back in about 2.3 seconds; with 16 firefox windows open; and doing a download of the M9 PDF. I use this box all the time with my Epson RD-1 and its raw files. This box from circa say 2002 with upgrades will play all DVD's; with some avi and mov's the CPU is way up there; if the codec is abit fancy.

    For a mass batch conversion even the older 333Mhz box works well; it just takes longer. The older dream machines here are just used less; or for a scanning slaves; or retouching.

    A raw conversion uses cpu; plus the fancier retouching tools.

    Its funny to look back at prices; my used Noct cost me 350 bucks; maybe what a used Vega would fetch in 1978. Ram for PC's was once about 1000 bucks for 16 megs in the early Pentium era; my Pentium 90 dream machine built for Photoshop had 16 megs of ram; that cost 600 bucks; the 17" CRT cost 600 bucks; Photoshop 3 cost 600 bucks then. One worked Computer Shopper and built a custom wazzoo computer that cost 3 grand; Photoshop 3 cost 1/5 the computer's cost; ie 600 bucks. With my prior computer; photoshop cost 1/10 the cost of the computer!

    Today full bore Photoshop costs about 2 to 3 times what a base computer cost. Considering inflation Photoshop costs less than in the past.
    Here I use the raw conversions with my Epson RD-1 with my 15mm VC lens; to back out the vignetting; or with any lens to fix a poor shot ie exposure; or a radical color balance issue.
    The SCREEN on my RD-1 is not used much; mostly to cull out duds on rare occasions, or to change a rare setting. Most all the time with my RD-1/s I have the screen rotated away; ie so you dont see screen at all.
     
  22. Tom i am with you, no screen on the back but a well sealed camera against water and dust, choice for higher magnification viewfinders, a dédicated way to connect a remote screen (or video glasses) and a pure black and white version.
    Anyway, i think i will to buy this one, my first digital M
     
  23. The specs show the M9 is a little larger than the MP and M7. Anyone know if Leica solved the M8 full frame challenges (space) with new chip technology, by making the M9 a little bigger and deeper or both?
     
  24. Anyone know if Leica solved the M8 full frame challenges (space) with new chip technology, by making the M9 a little bigger and deeper or both?​
    The M9 is identical in size to the M8 (139 x 80 x 37) and weighs 6 grams less than the M8.
     
  25. Yehh... a M nein with out an LCD couLd take 4000 piccies on a 32 GB card... with out re@Lizing you left your lens cap on...just Like the g00d oLe d@Ys...
     
  26. Thanks Ralph. I should have checked the M8 specs. Very interested to see how they made this work. Looks like a terrific package.
     
  27. M7, MP, M9, S2... preTTy formidAble lineUp... Yehh :)
     
  28. M7, MP, M9, S2... preTTy formidAble lineUp... Yehh :)
    And an X1 in the pocket for those high quality P&S moments - at least I assume they will be high quality with a 1.5 crop sensor and a fixed 24mm f2. Elmarit.
     
  29. That should be an f2.8 Elmarit of course.
     
  30. bms

    bms

    Re: X-1, Leica probably looked at the Pen and figured most people who use the D-LUX 4 wide angle may go for it.... how much more difficult would it have been to make lenses interchangeable? I do not think it would be a true competitor for the M9, not having a view- or rangefinder at all. Probably will have a $400 accessory viewfinder ;/
     
  31. My reaction to Kelly's comment:
    The rapid improvement in technology in digital cameras and the ridiculous cost/depreciation, is why I only have one DSLR which I bought used (D300, $1000), and four film cameras, all of which are appreciating.
    The M9 looks to be what we wanted 2 years ago. A full frame digital M7. Now we have it. I think Leica have been very careful to size the sensor so that there is no correction to their lens geometry. This is reall good news for those who buy have Leica lenses and expect investment protection.
    The ISO range of 80-2500 is also exactly where 99% of Leica M users are used working, so all that exposure IP thats in our heads is not upset. You could put down your M7 and pick up an M9 and not change much that you do, so the transition will be so easy.
     
  32. It's all right,but...what about image quality? The samples in that PDF are,IMHO, at best...ok. Lacks contrast and definition. Iknow there a thing about "the Leica way of shooting"and all that stuff,but when it comes to the IQ alone... I truly have doubts...
    What are your thoughts?
     
  33. It's all right,but...what about image quality? The samples in that PDF are,IMHO, at best...ok. Lacks contrast and definition. Iknow there a thing about "the Leica way of shooting"and all that stuff,but when it comes to the IQ alone... I truly have doubts...
    What are your thoughts?
     
  34. Kelly, what a beautiful essay reviewing the progress of computers, particularly as they relate to camera capacities. Thank you, and I am encouraged to consider the large files of the M9. But I am so pleased with the simple and beautiful effects of the M8.2 in JPEG Fine at 9 x 14, that I would hesitate to change. But it is great to hear from someone so knowledgeable and articulate.
     
  35. I looked at "The Brochure" and assume it is the real thing. And I looked at the section showing the M cameras: M7, MP, M9. But where is M8.2? Is it gone from production? If so, bad behavior by Leica, since I love it and have no desire for an M9. I will buy another M8.2 instead. Help!
     
  36. I will buy another M8.2 instead. Help!​
    No problems, you can buy the M8.2 right now from B&H.
     
  37. Will swap my M8 for the M9 as soon as I can. But fear Guido is correct- there will be no market for used M8s at all.... Hope Leica offers some kind of trade-in program
    By the way, the brochure reminds me of an old advert for peri-peri chicken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNaiahM-lwI&feature=related. Enjoy!
     
  38. "there will be no market for used M8s at all...."
    Sure there will- for those who want a digital M at half the price of an M9.
     
  39. Yo digiheads!
    Once you get it into P-shop, what difference does it make about the chromatic aberration of the lens or the speed of the auto-focus? Not picking on Leica, a well-respected and earned-name back when optics and art mattered in photography, but the 2012 version of 'digital cameras' will be a by-pixel, aspect-ratio, ISO-selectable, color-saturation-hue-selectable 'framing box' whose function is to capture whatever is exposed to the silicon so the gear-heads can keep my Benefactor Steve Jobs in business. Now anyone in ATL will be able to go out and shoot 'Half-dome at Yosemite' in their backyard (at least on the North side of town; from anywhere else w/realtime sat downlink, regardless of weather or illumination. Or morning at K2, whatever.)
    As a hobby with an 'I was there' gratification 'photography' will continue to run its course. I feel the ' I was there' factor is going to matter more to GrandMa and GrandDad than NationalGeo. (again, props to NationalGeo phototogs, the absolute best in the business, who continually re-define the 'standards' for excellence for the Art as it is today.)
    We're going to have to factor in the 4th dimension; from capturing the 'moment' to capturing the 'moments'. Photography will pass to daguerreotype as an art form, and as style has replaced substance everywhere I can see, 2-dimensional art will be replaced by 3.5 dimensional art (time).
    Canon/Nikon (I don't know about about Leica - anyone with more into please reply; I heard about a Leica (maybe) that would shoot continuous frames around an event in order to capture the event itself (whales breaking wind, 8-year olds breaking wind at home plate, you know the drill). If true, a brave, forward-thinking move.
    Sorry, this was NOT an appropriate place for this question. I am NOT dinging Leica. I just don't now all the 'hidden forums' for non-vendor-specific bitching......
    br
     
  40. "there will be no market for used M8s at all...."/Sure there will- for those who want a digital M at half the price of an M9.--- kinda smacks of hanging M8/8.2 owners out to dry...
     
  41. you upgrading Tom? ;)
     
  42. The samples in that PDF are,IMHO, at best...ok. Lacks contrast and definition

    The PDF (just as with all online brochures) has web sized images, not meant for printing. Otherwise it'd be in hundreds of megabytes in size, or bigger. As for contrast, that's all very subjective - to me it looks good. I am now for the first time considering buying some Leica M equipment.
    Once you get it into P-shop, what difference does it make about the chromatic aberration of the lens or the speed of the auto-focus? Not picking on Leica, a well-respected and earned-name back when optics and art mattered in photography,

    Optics matter a great deal in photography today. Although you can to a degree correct CA in post-processing, the result of such algorithms is never the same as with a CA-free lens in the first place.
     
  43. simply wonderful... :) from a Nikon D700 user! I'm selling my camera and lens!!!! :)
     
  44. I will Ray, eventually- Im just miffed I paid 4400euro for an m8 a year ago, when, "due to the retrofocus nature of Leica lenses" they "couldn't build a full frame m-series". And I doubt they'll offer a sensor upgrade either- that'd make the VF useless.
     
  45. Guys, guys, guys . . . technology does not always aim at making our lives easier or better but also shrinking our pockets. M8 and M8.2 are both perfectly capable cameras. If Winongrand had an M8 he would leave behind him a few million shots, but he would still be Winongrand.
    Grab your cameras and get out shooting . . . invest in your photographic vision. It is much more rewarding than changing your gear every year or so.
    my 2c
     
  46. ah Tom, I didn't know you bought a new one.. anyway Nondas is right, your M8 is still a very capable camera (and IMO the smaller sensor has depth of field advantages)... anyway an upgraded version coming along would be the case with any digital. There will be M10 too, 5D Mark III the Blackberry version..
     
  47. I am already sick of it. Leica comes out with a new camera with more pixels than an average shooter can ever use, and the rioting 'firstest-with-the-bestest' crowd are out in force, drooling and raving and trading the camera they bought yesterday when it was the hot item.
     
  48. why 18mp? most of the leica shooter are used to aprox. 10mp with film? 12 mp with an iso capability of the d700 would've been great. lets see how good the camera will be, the LCD resolution is kinda embarassing for a camera that comes with a prize tag of a new small car...
    i just hope leica's getting back on the feet and continue to produce good products as they've still got to catch up with technological advancements
     
  49. Bernard:
    Once you get it into P-shop, what difference does it make about the chromatic aberration of the lens...
    Only the difference between 10 minutes and 10 hours with your butt in a chair and your wrist in an RSI brace. If you like clicking mice better than clicking shutters, knock yourself out.
    Now anyone in ATL will be able to go out and shoot 'Half-dome at Yosemite' in their backyard (at least on the North side of town; from anywhere else w/realtime sat downlink, regardless of weather or illumination. Or morning at K2, whatever.)
    The point of which would be, .... what?
    Canon/Nikon (I don't know about about Leica - anyone with more into please reply; I heard about a Leica (maybe) that would shoot continuous frames around an event in order to capture the event itself....
    Why wait for Leica; just go get one of these .
     
  50. Ray, for me it's not about anything other than the crop factor for the 4 leica lenses I already own- the m8 IS a very
    capable camera, I've shot with mine nearly every day since I got it -But the whole lens coding thing is frankly ridiculous.
     
  51. Lol has anyone even considered that the M9 might not be coming out? I mean it's all just tall tales until we see in 2 days (today is the 7th). The leica site says "witness the unveiling of the next generation of leica cameras" which could mean a whole slew of things. The most obvious one being that they might finally launch the almost forgotten S-series Leicas, almost a year after they were first shown at photokina. The M9 might not be even in proto type form yet!
    In truth nobody has concrete evidence yet. Why not just wait 48 hours and we'll all see the facts. If I'm wrong and leica does reveal an M9, well I'll still think they make great cameras, but in turn have a sloppy goal plan. I mean they told everybody the S-series would be out during the summer!
    An M9 would be awesome, even if the specs were a bit behind. Hey it's Leica, we all love paying extra to get less XD
     
  52. Darn it. Leica really brings out the worst in me. Dark sides of my personality I didn't even know existed. I recall how, as a Nikon D300 owner, I laughed about the stupid crowd who dumped their D300's last year the moment the D700 came out, for no obvious benefit except some better low-light ISO specs. And now I'm sitting here, salivating over the M9 brochure and the devious "premium/hand-crafted" blurb of the teaser video, while at the same time I would never consider giving up my existing gear for something as mundane as a 25MP Sony A900, a D3x or a 5DMkII...
    I just wish for 9/9/09 to be here, along with a horrendous, absolutely breath-taking price tag, allowing me to get over it and go back shooting...
    And yes, the M9 not coming out would be another, welcome possibility.
     
  53. 'll still think they make great cameras, but in turn have a sloppy goal plan. I mean they told everybody the S-series would be out during the summer!​
    Summer hasn't ended.
     
  54. Some interesting analysis of the brochure etc. at http://www.theonlinephotographer.com
     
  55. Thank you Ralph. It's nice to see someone say something nice about Leica for a change.
    I am glad that my worst fears were not justified: The M9 is not bloated. It is as compact as the M8. There will be no longer a need for UV/IR filters, if I am reading the catalogue correctly. Also, reading between the lines, coding will not be necessary except for flash (which will use the codes to automatically adjust to the focal length). I do not think the M9 will be as quiet or discrete as a film Leica RF. And Leica is continuing with those (MP, M7).
     
  56. IMHO the full frame feature was the main reason for the creation of this camera. The M8 small sensor somehow perverted the Leica tradition as it didn't allow Leica film cameras owners to get the full potential of their lenses. We don't have to bring this motive to light between the lines of this brochure because it's clearly stated at page 35-7.
    I would be very upset with Leica if I was an owner of a recently upgraded M8. However, I guess this step was predictable as no investments (Leitz financial constraints is other possibility) were made by Leitz in lenses for small sensors.
    I don't want to offend any M8 owner but I dare to call this camera the Neanderthal in Leica cameras evolutionary tree.
    Anyway, the best of luck for Leitz and its cameras present and future owners!
     
  57. "I don't want to offend any M8 owner but I dare to call this camera the Neanderthal in Leica cameras evolutionary tree."
    And no offense taken. If it weren't for past M8 purchases there would be no M9 today. And after the M9 is out and about my M8 will continue to take fine pictures. Well, at least as fine as my shaky skills will allow. :)
     
  58. Paulo, Leica has to continue to support the M8/M8.2 with upgrades. I'd be upset if they didn't. A FF M camera is inevitable, but a bummer for me. If I sold every camera lens combo I own, I might be able to buy an M9 and no lenses.
    There is a thread somewhere on the web comparing the size of the M9 to FF dSLRs, incredible!
     
  59. Lol has anyone even considered that the M9 might not be coming out? I mean it's all just tall tales until we see in 2 days (today is the 7th). The leica site says "witness the unveiling of the next generation of leica cameras" which could mean a whole slew of things. The most obvious one being that they might finally launch the almost forgotten S-series Leicas, almost a year after they were first shown at photokina. The M9 might not be even in proto type form yet!

    OMG r u r3ding any stuffz on da interwebz LOL?!?

    M9=Tall tails ROFLMAO LOL OMG!!!
     
  60. All for folks with a lot more $$ than I have. Personally I'll just continue to shoot Delta 100 in my G2 or have fun with my Nikon D60. Either will give me an 8x10 indistinguishable from a .... how much is that M9 going to sell for?
     
  61. Just saw a bunch of images of people in San Francisco taken by a Leica group. I use the much larger D700 but it is too obvious for hanging around my neck and shooting images of street people. The Leica images were outstanding (photojournalist speaking).
     
  62. The colours of the photos in the pdf are very strange. I hope that's not what the final production model will deliver.
     
  63. [[Only the difference between 10 minutes and 10 hours with your butt in a chair and your wrist in an RSI brace. If you like clicking mice better than clicking shutters, knock yourself out.]]
    You're. Doing. It. Wrong.
     
  64. I'm not doing it wrong - I'm buying lenses that avoid the problem in the first place. Anyone who's using Photoshop for more than zero seconds to correct for chromatic aberration is doing it wrong.
     
  65. Leica M photography is about capturing decisive moments​
    and there was me thinking I did that.
    Anyway, I´m not going to upgrade to a M9. Wanna have, sure but way too expensive, just wait and see. Might be the right time to get a hardly ever used M8 though.
     
  66. "Leica M photography is about capturing decisive moments"
    In my opinion, this is the purpose of any form of photography, with any camera brand ever made - capturing decisive moments! Nothing at all to do with Leica M photography specifically.
     
  67. There is a thread somewhere on the web comparing the size of the M9 to FF dSLRs, incredible!​
    See the second image of a camera grouping in this article:
    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/the-worlds-most-compact-fullframe-digital-system-camera.html
     
  68. "Am I the only one who thinks that it is somewhat ironic that the brochure for one of the most expensive cameras on the planet is used to glorify Che Guevara and Cuban sports (one of the last pockets of communism on the planet)?"​
    There has always been this dichotomy - going back to Robert Capa with the Republicans (socialists) in the Spanish Civil War (Yeah, well, Contax, but still a pricey small German camera). Susan Meiselas hanging out with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. H-CB in Moscow. David Alan Harvey in Cuba. René Burri in Cuba.
    The whole Photo League, busy using Rolleis and Leicas, was shut down as an "un-American activity" http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAPphoto.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_League
    Heck, when Soviet spymaster Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky wanted a "Soviet" 35mm camera - he didn't copy the nice proletarian Ansco or Argus http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-172.html, he copied the Leica, and named it for himself ("FED")
    Capitalists make better cameras - socialists make better subject matter. 8^)
    [edit] Ahh- c'mon Mods - it's a valid subject for discussion in the history of Leica - so long as it doesn't get nasty. jeez!
     
  69. Interesting thread...much like reading a PC vs Mac thread. So, the M8 is now worth half of the original MSRP two years after introduction, not unlike the depreciation of high end bodies of Nikon and Canon.
    No one argues that Leica glass is not superb. However, building fine glass and doing the necessary research to produce advanced processing electronics and package it, is probably beyond Leica's core capability. I would think Panasonic had quite a hand in this product and because items like the display and sensor are absolutely outsourced, the final product is not immune from Moore's Law. A substantial amount of the purchase price of the M9 is going to be obviously based on the logo on the outside, not the guts inside. And glass aside, does the compact size with a less than adequate display make it a great value? It certainly won't be the long term collectable that classic Leica film bodies became.
     
  70. "So, the M8 is now worth half of the original MSRP two years after introduction..."​
    Well, three years - but what's a 50% error among friends?
    "I would think Panasonic had quite a hand in this product...."​
    You would think wrong. In the internet era it is not all that hard to find out the real facts. Kodak sensor, Fujitsu processor, Jenoptik help on the overall electronic design (now being brought in-house because - surprise, surprise, - Leica has hired talent who does know how to do this. And is smart enough to, you know, learn new stuff - just as Canon and Nikon learned how to do it.)
     
  71. I continue to use my Leica film cameras (an M2 and an M7) because of the way they handle. The quality of the lenses (35mm and 50mm Summicrons) is of secondary importance.
    The absence of autofocus and motor wind is a HUGE plus as far as I'm concerned. I've been using my M2 since 1970 and except for the absence of auto-exposure it still is a superb instrument.
    Shooting with a Leica is fast, but the camera paradoxically forces you to slow down and think before you shoot.
     
  72. You would think wrong. In the internet era it is not all that hard to find out the real facts. Kodak sensor, Fujitsu processor, Jenoptik help on the overall electronic design (now being brought in-house because - surprise, surprise, - Leica has hired talent who does know how to do this. And is smart enough to, you know, learn new stuff - just as Canon and Nikon learned how to do it.)
    Basically, what I said..outsourced processors and sensors... Leica brought in outside help to workon the project. It was about two years ago that actual quantity deliveries of the M8 began, with product issues that had to be sorted out. The M8 product announcement was just over 2.5 years ago. And having worked in consumer electronics manufacturing with outside design and engineering consultants, I can assure you that their presence does not guarantee a smooth meshing of internal and external talents (egos). I would be extremely surprised if the M9 will be any different in terms of software issues when it is finally released.
     
  73. I'm looking forward to this release. I stopped shooting Leica/film 5-ish years ago. This release might get me back into Leica M-series. I wish I had held on to that Summicron 35/2 ASPH though since I bought it new for $980, I see prices have gone up a bit... :)
     
  74. I'm sorry Charles - but you just do not know what you are talking about - Leica sold 10,000 M8s in the first year of shipments (Oct. 2006 - Oct. 2007). I've owned BOTH my M8s longer than 2.5 years. 2.5 years ago I had already owned my first for 6 months.
    Leica announced the M8 in Sept. 2006. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091412leicam8previewed.asp Today is Sept. 2009.
    It works: Sept. 2008 was one year ago, Sept. 2007 was two years ago, Sept. 2006 was - yep, three (3) years ago.
    You did not say "Outside firms...." you specifically said "Panasonic has quite a hand in this product..." It is right up there in black and white. Unless Panasonic recently bought Kodak and Fujitsu, your statement was incorrect.
     
  75. Ok Andy, have your way. You're obviously a 'fanboy'. The fact is the M8 was announced the first week of September 2006 but was late shipping in that quarter so for all practical purposes quantities were not shipping till the early part of 2007. 10,000 units is not a large quantity by Nikon or Canon standards. The product was bug ridden enough that Leica later announced the M8.2 and free upgrades to keep customers.
     
  76. First week of Sept. = Later that quarter = the next year?
    Ahh, now I see. Enron accounting methods.
    A "fanboy" of facts, certainly.
     
  77. Several observations:
    1. Ton and David, yes, almost all cameras can be used to capture decisive moments, but not all photography is decisive moment photography. The term has a special meaning in the context of the history of photography, and I would assume you're both aware of the term's origin and meaning. (If not, there's always google.) The Leica M series has been optimized for that genre of photography. Other cameras are optimized for other purposes. Still other camera systems are designed to be universal, in that they can do all things reasonably well without necessarily being the best at any one task. I think the brochure makes the design philosophy and positioning of the M9 quite clear.
    2. The unusual thing about the photos in the brochure is not the irony of using an expensive camera to shoot in a communist country, but the fact that Leica chose a particularly challenging subject: dark skin, highly reflective from perspiration, in bright sunlight. I have an M8, but with subject matter like that, I'd probably reach for a film M and load it with a low-contrast portrait film. I wonder whether the M9 is superior to the M8 in its ability to record a greater subject brightness range.
    3. Andy, I've learned never to argue with people who introduce the word "fanboy" into a thread. It's just not fair of you to fight insults with facts!
     
  78. One more thought: Looking through the brochure quickly, I didn't notice any mention of silver chrome lenses, and the the option of a silver chrome body has apparently been replaced with gun-metal grey. I wonder whether all lenses will now be black or if there will be gun-metal grey lenses in the future. Not the most important issue, surely, but it did pique my curiosity.
     
  79. The lens data table in the brochure still lists the 50/35 cron weights for both silver and black. I think Leica runs of silver lenses if they feel a market opportunity - they have come and gone over the years. In the Hermes era, almost everything except 28s was available in silver, but once the camera guys got back in charge, most of the silver lenses were dropped.
     
  80. The Leica M series has been optimized for that genre of photography.​
    Jonathan would you care to explain that? In what way optimized?
    The real reason is that the Leica M provides an all in focus image through it´s viewfinder, just like any rangefinder does. Some people prefer that because it helps them in composing their photo. The only place where decisive (or any other) moment photography is generated is between your ears. Some people are more talented in that than others indepent from what cameratype is used. It never ceases to amaze me how longlived that myth is.
     
  81. Jonathan - people photography with my Zorki-4 or Fed-2 or my now ex Leica III, or reportage wedding photography with a chunky Canon 5D with big lens and flash are both most definitely decisive moment photography. I agree that the Leica M's are more suitable in terms of size for the purpose, but the big ol DSLR is the tool of choice for weddings right now as the Leica M digital just cannot cut it in low light. I really look forward to the day we have a Leica M digital which can compete with a 5DII at high ISO's, or even the 5D - very eager to see how this M9 does, then maybe I will have to get one! This is my opinion, and there is no right or wrong as its down to personal opinion and preference.....and yes of course I know the origin of that statement, I have a sizeable collection of books by that great Frenchman.
     
  82. As a user of M Leicas for over 40 years I find the emphasis on "street photography" rather amusing. It would seem that many restrict these cameras to that particular genre when, in fact, one can take any type of picture with a Leica M. I have portraits taken with my M4 and 90mm Tele Elmarit and wildflowers tken with my M2, Visoflex, Bellows and 65mm Elmar. Negative film in the M4, slide film in the M2. Both cameras are used for scenics and candid shots. The M9 simply offers those of us with an existing M system a full frame digital alternative. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the reason we have this equipment is to produce a print, slide or file to share our vision with others.
    It's gratifying to see Leica continuing to update and expand the M system with the M9 and new lenses. The presentation tomorrow should be interesting but I hope there are more facts than PR. It would also be refreshing to see some photos from the "first" rather then the "third" world.
    Andy - your facts are always welcome.
     
  83. 200 ISO film and f1.4 lenses never seemed to limit the available light photographers of the past, perhaps because they enjoyed isolating their (often human) subject from everything else in low light. Wedding photography might require great depth of field and admittedly higher ISO digital response, but I think that the issue of the limted useable ISO range of the Leica M digital is a bit overstated. Most users will probably never want anything above 640 or 1250 ISO, and probably a lot less. A look at most photos in the photo.Net galleries shows that.
     
  84. [[Anyone who's using Photoshop for more than zero seconds to correct for chromatic aberration is doing it wrong.]]
    Wow Bob, you could not have missed the point of my post more if you really tried.
     
  85. I can't afford an M9 but would have one if I could. All of you getting one...enjoy it! The X-1 looks interesting though. :)
     
  86. Some Leica shops in London already taking orders for the M9 and promising delivery within a month.
     
  87. PopFlash has posted its US retails on its home page: X1=$1,995. M9=$6,995.
     
  88. OK, anybody interested in a very clean M8, 21 Asph, and 28mm 3rd version Elmarit? That would get me close enough to 7 grand. :)
     
  89. Ray, you need to sell the body, not the lenses! ;-))
     
  90. I'm ready to sell my body for the M9.
    Just kidding of course :)
     
  91. Thanks Brad. You're up early!
    Well, it is all in the open.
    I was going to get a 58mm UV/IR cut filter for my Nokton 50/1.1. Maybe I'll just get it an M9.
    I wonder what the "vintage black and white" mode is like.
     
  92. Most users will probably never want anything above 640 or 1250 ISO, and probably a lot less. A look at most photos in the photo.Net galleries shows that.
    That is only because most people don't have cameras that perform well at high ISO (i.e. 3200). Once people are provided with such cameras (e.g. the Nikon D700) the use of high ISO dramatically increases (unless they're doing tripod based photography of still subjects or studio work exclusively). I think I average around ISO 1250 nowadays (with nature photos shot at 200-400, most people photos around ISO 800-3200), although I have very fast glass. Going back to a camera that will not give spectacular quality at 1600 or 3200 would be a significant step backwards unless the quality of the optics offers sufficient compensation (i.e. better quality images at f/1.4 and f/2).
    Before I got the D3, I thought the same as you. That camera totally changed photography.
     
  93. I have to admit that I am spoiled by the light weight of Leica Ms. The Nikons are great, but so heavy.
     

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