help me purchase a new PC

<p>Time to purchase a new computer. It's been a while since I last went shopping and I'm bewildered by the options. My main goals are, first, to get something that will run Windows 7 Pro (and I'll need XP mode, too), and second, to get something that will run Lightroom 3 faster. Ideally, I'd get a laptop, as I've been using a laptop as my primary computer for some years and I'm used to it. But I'm on a very tight budget and if I can save a significant amount of money and get everything I want and need, then I'm willing to learn how to sit still. I might add that I'm mildly partial to Dell, because I live in Texas, and because the only PCs I've ever owned are Dells so I am less confused by their product line than by the product lines of other companies. </p>

<p>I'm looking at the Dell Studio XPS laptops. The Studio XPS 16 looks good; there was a thread about it last month here that I read.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00VpNA">http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00VpNA</a></p>

<p>Looks like I could get a Studio XPS 16 configured as I want (Win 7 Pro + XP Mode, 4 GB RAM) for somewhere around $1300. But I'm wondering—would a desktop be cheaper and better? </p>

<p>What's more important—processor or RAM? Assuming I will have at least 4 GB of RAM, do I need an i7 processor? Or would it be better to get a less flashy processor and instead have 6 GB of RAM? Note that, while I'm working in Lightroom, I don't usually have many other apps open—perhaps my browser (Chrome), perhaps Google Picasa, seldom anything else.</p>

<p>Do all laptops these days come only with glossy displays? I would prefer to have a non-glossy display and if the only way to get one is to buy a desktop system, that would matter.</p>

<p>Am I even asking the right questions?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance,</p>

<p>Will</p>

I believe desktops are less expensive, more reliable, and easier to maintain (more bang for the buck). Settle for an i5 processor and get more RAM (6GB or 8GB is good). This kind of setup will easily handle RAW files from a full frame camera. Don't forget extra harddrives to use as on site and off site backups.

<p>Yes, a desktop will give you much more bang for your buck than a laptop would. For example, you could get a XPS 8100 with i7-860, 8GB of RAM, 1TB HD, a 21.5" monitor etc. for about the same price as the Studio XPS 16. </p>

<p>In other words, you could get a desktop with the <em>same</em> processing power as the laptop for a lot less money.</p>

<p>ah Bill beat me to it while I was over on dell's website. :)</p>

<p>Thanks, gents. I just looked at the Studio XPS 8100 and it does look good. A followup question.</p>

<p>I don't understand the options regarding video cards. There seem to be at least three choices:</p>

<ul>

<li>NVIDIA D11M0-30 NV G310 (512MB)</li>

<li>nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB GDDR3<br /></li>

<li>ATI Radeon HD 5450 1GB DDR3<br /></li>

</ul>

<p>Do I care which of these I get?</p>

<p>Personally I would get the nVidia GeForce card but make sure any card you get is compatible with PS. Basically the more mem the better.</p>

<p>Thanks for the response, Robert.</p>

<p>How do I check to make sure that the card is compatible with my software? I don't use Photoshop itself. Almost all of my work is done in Lightroom. I do occasionally use PSE and some other programs.</p>

 

<p>I doubt there is a video card sold today, including all the cheap on-board ones, that do not work with Photoshop. Claims of "compatibility" are unnecessary.<br>

GPU (graphic processing unit) supported functions in CS4 are minimal. You do not need to drop a ton of money on video cards unless you are rendering 3D models or doing intensive video editing work with software that can use the GPU.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>a 298 buck computer from Walmart has 2 gigs ram; win7; DVD burner; usb ports and card reader on the front; mouse and keyboard; and a 500 gig HDA.</p>

 

<p>Rob,<br>

would you say that the amount of RAM, speed of the processor and quality of the motherboard are more important than a fast graphic card? I was under the impression that the speed of the graphic card was in some way relevant to how smooth Photoshop would run. Thanks!</p>

<p>Photoshop has 2 graphical modes. The more advanced one (OpenGL) looks better on good graphics cards (I'd say ATI 4350 and up, Nvidia 8400GS and higher). Zooms and moves have a slick, smooth look, but it doesn't change any editing operation. Any graphics card will run the less advanced mode, and again all editing features work the same in both modes.</p>

<p>RAM in 64 bit mode is your friend.</p>

<p>Oh and if those are the only graphics card options and you don't need the system for any 3D stuff, you may be able to get credit for deleting it and pick up one of the cards above for $40-$45.</p>

<p>Desktops are cheaper and faster for the same amount of money. I have the XPS and have had some problems with it (daughter). Bought HP laptops and no problems. Best Buy has a lap made exclusively for them by HP, that comes with 2 years warranty and is plenty fast and small enough to take any where. My son who is taking graphic design uses it and has no speed problems. Uses CS4 all programs.</p>

<p>Get at least 512 dedicated graphic card, when you start customizing the cost goes up, quite a few computers will have almost all that you need except the XP and Windows 7 ability. Is the XP for certain programs that are not compatible with Windows 7?</p>

<p>If you could stretch to the cost of a laptop, then I would propose getting a Dell desktop and spend the difference on a good 20-22" monitor such as the Dell Ultrasharp which seems well-respected.</p>

<p>I have just bought a Dell Studio 15 with 3 MB RAM and upgraded bits for photo stuff - 512 video card, Windows 7 pro (it is relatievly cheap to upgrade from the standard). I intend this for general photo management (viewing, grading, keywords, deleting) but use the desktop for full-on processing. If your old laptop is servicable then you could still use it in the same way.<br>

The other advantage of a desktop is that it is so much easier to add more RAM, change the card, and add internal drives - things that can be tricky with a laptop once it has been built.</p>

<p>For doing calenders in printing here; a dumb 2.5Ghz computer from about 2002 is used; it has 2 gigs of ram; just windows 2000. The PCI video card is one just from an older dream machine from the 1990's; it has 4 megs of ram and cost me 500+ bucks eons ago. The calendars are many layers; full of text; typical image size is 50 to 300 megs. The card works just fine for Photoshop 5.5; 7 CS and CS2 that are on this box. It is a poor card for *games*; one has artifacts on the details of planes with flight simulator; and action figures in utlmate tourament look lame. Once I had a gamer 256 megs card in this box; but when if I boot up into a DOS session for some older software; the newer wazoo card did not have drivers for this dumber mode.</p>

<p>In selling computers tacking on a gamers card to a lay photoshop buyer is a good move to gain spifs and commissions. Sales chaps often make more money on the gamer card upgrade than the computer!</p>

<p>Many folks want an all in one box; ie they do games; watch movies dvd's; watch youtube videos. Here is where the calendar box fails. * BUT* I purposely keep a "just good enough" card because it reduces goofing off of employees on a machine with a defined purpose; ie calendars.</p>

<p>With complete base computers being available at the 300 buck range today; it is often better not to create some all in one box; but have two machines. </p>

<p>BTW, XP mode is a feature of Windows 7. It is not something special that Dell is giving you.</p>

<p>Manuel B. writes,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Get at least 512 dedicated graphic card, when you start customizing the cost goes up, quite a few computers will have almost all that you need except the XP and Windows 7 ability. Is the XP for certain programs that are not compatible with Windows 7?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sort of. When I'm not doing photography, I am the owner of a very small software company. A lot of my clients and licensees are still using Windows XP (although more and more are moving to Win 7). It will be useful for me to be able to test in XP occasionally. Now, I suppose, if my current laptop running XP SP3 doesn't die, I could use it. </p>

<p>Kelly F. writes,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>With complete base computers being available at the 300 buck range today; it is often better not to create some all in one box; but have two machines.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I've long believed that. And one of the things I'm trying to do this year is figure out how to get a new Win 7 machine AND also a new Mac OS machine. My problem is that the $300 off-the-shelf machines just don't seem to have enough horsepower.</p>

<p>Teresa A. writes,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>BTW, XP mode is a feature of Windows 7. It is not something special that Dell is giving you.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I know it's not something special Dell is giving me. But <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/compare/default.aspx">according to Microsoft</a>, XP Mode is a feature of Windows 7 Professional and NOT found in Windows 7 Home (Basic OR Premium). That's one of the reasons why I think I need Win 7 Pro. The other is that I would like to use Remote Desktop Host, which also appears to be a feature of Pro and not of Home.</p>

<p>Thanks everybody.</p>

<p>Will<br>

<br /></p>

<p>Here is a link to Adobes list of tested graphics cards for PS4 I couldn't find any info on Lightroom 3 and Open GL, but as a rule of thumb the more memory you have on your video card the less of a load on your CPU. You also want to get as much computer as you can afford now because future demands can quickly make your computer obsolete. Like an old car where the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the vehicle. If I was buying now I would get a quad core with 16 gigs of ram. Monitors are a different story because you want to get something that can be calibrated. I have a cheap 22" that will never be able to be calibrated and a Dell ultrasharp that is easily calibrated and accurate. <a href="http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405711.html">http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405711.html</a></p>

<p>John C,</p>

<p>Thanks for that info about graphics cards. Looks like I'll be okay whatever I get.</p>

<p>But I hear what you're saying about getting more memory on the card, and I hear what you're saying also about buying as much computer as I can afford now, to future-proof it as much as possible. (Well, to retard its inevitable slide into obsolescence.) That's the dilemma. I'd like to spend as little as possible now, but on the other hand, I don't want to be doing this again in 12 months.</p>

<p>I must say that I'm surprised there aren't web sites out there that rate computers and compare them as clearly and helpfully as (say) dpreview.com rates and compares cameras. </p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>"I must say that I'm surprised there aren't web sites out there that rate computers and compare them as clearly and helpfully as (say) dpreview.com rates and compares cameras."</p>

<p>Consumer Reports does (on line fee, or free issues at the library). They don't accept advertising and are thus completely unbiased.</p>

<p>cnet.com does reviews. not sure if totally unbias but has their picks and consumer picks also</p>

<p>Perspective from an IT guy:<br>

Keep in mind that XP mode (which someone mentioned is part of Win7) requires a feature of the CPU and motherboard called Hardware Virtualization Support. If you computer does not have this then Win7 will not let you run XP mode. If it does you often have to activate it in your computers BIOS setup (that screen you hit F2 or Del when you turn it on to get to). My office computer has this but my home computer (where the photo editing happens) does not. To get around that you can download a free tool called Sun VirtualBox that will allow you to run another OS inside it like an application without the hardware virtualization support the XP mode emulator does.<br>

With Virtual Box you need to install Windows XP into it, but it's really not as complicated as that might sound. You'll just need the CD and CD key you probably already have to do the installation.<br>

About Video Cards, I just use the integrated video that comes on the motherboard for photo editing (14 MP RAW files usually) and it seems to do fine. As someone mentioned the high end cards are mostly for gaming, 3d rendering, and video playback. They can also consume lots of power, generate extra heat, and make more noise from fans that move that heat around. You can also always add one later so if you get the base computer without one and you are not satisfied with video performance then it's easy enough to pop one in later. It will also be cheaper the longer you wait. When I put together a HTPC (home theater PC) I had to add a video card to support BluRay HD playback. That card was a $30 one and it can now play 1080p video with nary a stutter. So for moat cases a high end video card is not necessary.<br>

Just make sure you get Windows 7 Pro 64 bit or you will be limited to under 4 GB of usable RAM. the 64 bit version will use up to 192 GB which is likely more than most motherboards will support.<br>

Don't let pushy sales people sell you stuff you don't need. Remember if you are not sure you can almost always add it later.<br>

I'd recommend a quad core CPU, maybe a mid-range one, 6 GB RAM, and a fast-ish hard drive and it will be a quantum leap from any computer of the XP generation.<br>

Good luck!</p>

<p>I forgot to mention that a desktop will be better than a laptop unless you really need the portability. If you decide you want a different monitor, it's pretty inexpensive to get a different one. With a laptop you'd have to get a new computer. Desktops are also much easier and cheaper to upgrade down the road in terms of CPU, RAM, video card, card readers, etc.</p>

<p><a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5607">Um, no: </a><br>

"Effective immediately, Windows XP Mode no longer requires hardware virtualization technology, Microsoft officials said today."<br>

It will run slower, but probably fast enough for a little testing.</p>

<p>Matt, thanks for the info. I'm leaning pretty hard in the direction of getting a desktop machine now. </p>

<p>Questions, if I may.</p>

<p>1) You recommended a "quad core". I am confused by all the processor options. Is the Dell Core i5 (or i3 or i7) a "quad core" processor?</p>

<p>2) You mentioned the importance of getting Win 7 Pro 64 bit in order to be able to use more than 4 GB of RAM. Is there a Home Premium 64 bit? And can it use more than 4 GB of RAM? I'm trying to figure out if I really need Win 7 Pro or not. Perhaps it's the 64 bit part that matters more to me, especially if I keep my current laptop (so I have XP when I need it).</p>