Focus finder not working on old small film

hi,

Recently i bought my first Durst enlarger that i want to use for printing film photos.

Now i found an old film from 1975 that i want to enlarge and inspect with the Paterson Focus finder.

I've put the old film in the film carrier of the enlarger and i used on top of the projection , my Paterson focus finder.

 

But i don't see anything ...

Question

1. Why i don't see anything beside blurry light? I ' have put the focus finder sharp , so i see the horizontal line in it.

2. Do i have to put the 3 collers (yellow, magenta and blue) to a certain value in the color head?

 

thx

What size film is it? Does your enlarger have two condensers? You might be using the wrong condenser for the film size

As to filter settings: If you are printing black & white film, place the filters at 0 cyan 0 magenta 0 yellow. If you are printing color negative film onto color photo paper, set 0 cyan 40 magenta 80 yellow. Printing color is a steep learning curve. As to the grain focuser --- requires lots of practice. Place in center of projected image. Open enlarger lens wide-open. Focus manually the best you can. Now attempt to use the focuser. You are looking for a highly magnified view of the negative. You will see the grain structure of the image. Move the focuser in a circular path about the center of the projected image. Change your distance between your eye and the eyepiece. No one can help you, you must use trial-and-error position changes. If printing color you are going to need lots of help from us. If printing black & white with variable contrast paper, you can use the yellow and magenta filter settings to alter the contrast yield from the paper. In any event you need to tell us what you are trying to do.

There should be a lever on the head of the enlarger that cancels the filters when operated, and replaces them when released. Use that for focussing. If there's no lever, then set all the dials to zero for focussing.

 

The grain magnifier needs to be set in the centre of the projected image. Anywhere else and it'll be difficult to see anything.

 

I assume this is colour film, since you mention a colour head with Cyan (not blue), Yellow and Magenta filters.

 

Some colour film has a very fine 'grain' that doesn't easily show up through a focus-finder at small enlargement sizes. You should be able to see some subject detail however. Unless the negative is of such poor quality that nothing is sharp, then all you'll see are blobs of colour.

 

The focus is very critical, requiring only a tiny motion of the focusing wheel. At some point, if you look carefully, you should be able to see the tiny blobs of dye - called dye-clouds - become visible as a fine texture, and that's when you have best focus.

 

Also, if you have a poor quality, scratched or dirty enlarging lens, then that might obscure the 'grain' and prevent it being seen. With enlarging lenses being sold for so little money these days, it's easy to find a top-quality 6 element one at a good price. It's not worth bothering with cheap 3 or 4 element ones IMO.

 

Componon, Rodagon and El-Nikkor are the names to look for.

 

BTW. Normally, only magenta and yellow filtration is used for colour printing. You should never have to use all three filters.

Edited September 9, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

 

BTW. Normally, only magenta and yellow filtration is used for colour printing. You should never have to use all three filters.

 

FYI - Using all three just adds gray.

Color printing negatives routinely use magenta and yellow filters. The cyan filter is a red blocker, the higher the setting the less red light playing on the easel. The magenta filter is a green blocker; higher settings block more and more green light. The yellow filter is a blue blocker; higher yellow setting reduces the amount of blue light playing on the easel.

 

The color photo paper is a tri-pack, thee emulsions coated on a single support. One sensitive to red light, one sensitive to green light and one sensitive to blue light. A print with good density and color balance results only when all three emulsions are correctly exposed.

 

The printing methodology system is based on the fact that when the negative is composed and projected on the easel, there is an abundance of red, green and blue exposing light (over-exposure all three layers). To property expose the intensities of the red, green, and blue, exposing light primaries must be individually adjusted downward.

 

We start with a filter setting of about 0 cyan – 40 magenta --- 80 yellow.

 

First we gradually stop-down the enlarger lens’s aperture. This act gradually reduces the intensity of all three light primary colors. At some point, in the stopping down process the red layer is satisfied. However the green and blue layers are receiving too much light energy.

 

Secondly, we increase the magenta and yellow filtration. The higher the magenta value the less green light. We upraise the yellow filter value, which reduces blue light energy.

 

We make a test print, aperture in the middle, filters set to -- 0 cyan – 40 magenta --- 80 yellow. Next we reprint making exposure time changes to achieve a print with acceptable density. Now we attack the color balance. We inspect the print categorizing it into six groupings. Too red – too cyan – too green – too magenta – too blue – too yellow – attack only one off color error at a time.

 

Too red – lower equally magenta & yellow: Too cyan – upraise magenta & yellow equally.

 

Too green – lower magenta: Too magenta – upraise magenta.

 

Too blue – lower yellow: Too yellow – upraise yellow.

 

Work in small = 5 --- medium = 10 – large – 20 (filter value changes).

 

Without instrumentation the only available methodology is trial and error.

hi,

Recently i bought my first Durst enlarger that i want to use for printing film photos.

Now i found an old film from 1975 that i want to enlarge and inspect with the Paterson Focus finder.

I've put the old film in the film carrier of the enlarger and i used on top of the projection , my Paterson focus finder.

 

But i don't see anything ...

Question

1. Why i don't see anything beside blurry light? I ' have put the focus finder sharp , so i see the horizontal line in it.

2. Do i have to put the 3 collers (yellow, magenta and blue) to a certain value in the color head?

 

thx

 

I do not have you model, but most focus aids work the same.

 

1) Put the Focus Finder in the middle of the projected image on the easel.

 

2) Open the lens wide. You want the most light you can get.

 

3) You will NOT see an image. You are trying to see the GRAIN of the film not the image on the film.

 

4) Focus the image on the easel by inspection to get close to focus. All you will see through the Focus Finder is a big blur until you get close to perfect focus.

 

5) Now look through the Focus Finder and carefully adjust the focus in small increments until you see the GRAIN. Until you can see the grain, all you will see is "blurry light". Continue to focus until the grain is as sharp as you can get it. Any blur on the print at this point is due to the image being blurred on the film.

 

6) Try to put the Focus Finder on the center portion of the image where there is some detail. If you put it where there is just white light slowing, there are no film gains, so there is nothing to focus on. All you will see is blurred light. Move the Focus Finder around a bit to find film grains.

 

The only effect the filter have is to cut down the amount of light hitting the easel. If the image looks dark, zero the filters for focusing. When the image is in focus, dial the filter in for the contrast you desire and make your print.

 

It takes some practice; play with it a bit.

thank you people for your advice here. I will go through all recommendations and let you know if it helped.

Unless the negative is of such poor quality that nothing is sharp, then all you'll see are blobs of colour.

 

I think the negative dates from 1975 and is certainly taken with poor camera. I suspect that there is simply no detail in it. Tomorrow i will go and look for a more detailed film.

I think the negative dates from 1975 and is certainly taken with poor camera. I suspect that there is simply no detail in it. Tomorrow i will go and look for a more detailed film.

 

When I first learned about such focusing devices from my grandfather, who taught me how to use them,

he also showed me, and I now have, a piece of special film to use. It is green with black lines, I

believe mechanically and not photographically applied. In the case where the actual negative

isn't easy to focus with, this can be used instead. One then puts the negative back in, careful

not to change focus or otherwise move things.

 

But most often, I don't use it.

(snip)

 

BTW. Normally, only magenta and yellow filtration is used for colour printing. You should never have to use all three filters.

 

Both color and B&W papers are now very fast. It isn't hard to get very short exposure times on smaller prints.

 

I have used equal C, M, and Y filters, as neutral density, in black and white printing.

 

I suspect that may also happen for small color prints, too.

Both color and B&W papers are now very fast. It isn't hard to get very short exposure times on smaller prints.

 

I have used equal C, M, and Y filters, as neutral density, in black and white printing.

 

I suspect that may also happen for small color prints, too.

My Meopta colour enlarger also has a neutral density filter of about two stops for just such a situation.

"I have used equal C, M, and Y filters, as neutral density, in black and white printing."

 

- That still doesn't alter the fact that only two of the three filters are ever needed for colour correction. Exposure time is a different matter entirely.

 

Also, there's no guarantee that the cyan filter is the exact complementary colour to the combined Y+M filters, and so may not give an exact grey cancellation. Theoretically it should be, but manufacturing tolerances and fading can't be ruled out in practise.

Edited September 11, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

As to Cyan + Magenta + Yellow as neutral density

 

Table of density to f-stops

5 C + 5 M + 5 Y = 1/6 f-stop

10 C + 10 M + 10 Y = 1/3 f-stop

15 C + 15 M + 15 Y = 1/2 f-stop

20 C + 20 M + 20 Y = 2/3 f-stop

30 C + 30 M + 30 Y - 1 f-stop

60 C + 60 M + 60 Y = 2 f-stop

90C + 90 M + 90 Y = 3 f-stop

 

The values are log base 10

10^0.3 = 2 (a 2x reduction or 1 f-stop)

Log base 10 notation is used however the characteristic which is 10 is omitted and the exponent which is 0.3 is used as the values of the filters. This log base 10 notation was established in the late 1800 by the Photo Scientist Hurter and Driffield the founders of the language of densitometry (measurement of the blacking of film & paper by exposure and development).

Edited September 14, 2018 by alan_marcus|2

This seems to have gotten pretty far from the original issue. So . . . A few questions:

 

Can you see an image when you hold the negative up to a bright light?

Can you see an image on the easel before you try the focus aid?

Is this a color or a B&W film?

Are there edge markings on the film? If so, can you tell us what is there?

 

If the answer to the first question is no, you may simply have a piece of grossly overexposed film.

If the answer to the second question is no, you may have overexposed film but it could also be that your lens is stopped down or that your enlarger system isn't bright enough to pierce the negative with enough light.

The answer to this question will go a long way toward figuring out what you should be looking for in the focus aid.

The edge markings will allow us to figure what the film stock is. Some older films may have exceptionally fine grain (Pan-X?) that you may have trouble depending on the quality of your focus aid.

 

I will also point out that you need to look at mid-tones with some films. The shadow areas may not have enough grain to see and the highlights may have too much.