Excessive Grain and Black Streaks

I’m getting back into film after a couple decades hiatus and just shot a roll of HP5 400. I’m seeing excessive grain in some of the images. There is also some fine black vertical streaks in these images, no idea what caused it but the streaks appear in a bunch of the images from that roll. It was unexpired film and was kept refrigerated. I did discover today that my Nikon FE's meter is not exposing correctly, about 2 stops of overexposure and my "slower" shutter speeds are no accurate which leaves them all in doubt. However I’ve looked at some Ilford and T-max tests of 3 stops under and 4 stops over exposure and not seeing anything like this. I doubt I’m that far off as I ignored the meter and used Sunny f16. My local lab is using Kodak D76, not sure what scanner they are using. Probably the end of the line for old FE. Will try another roll on my FM2 and perhaps a different lab.

 

Nikon FE B&W

 

Any ideas on this? Thanks much..

Edited June 24, 2020 by M_Morgan

The vertical lines look like emulsion scratches, which could be caused by the specific cartridge light trap or the camera. I would try another new roll of film (it could be color if that's cheaper) and get that developed somewhere else. As for grain, it really depends a lot on the lab and how they process film. Years ago I was on a trip and wanted to see some results before I got home to my darkroom. The lab I happened to use gave me very visible grain in 3x5 prints from fresh ASA 32 Panatomic-X film, something I wouldn't have thought possible. I think they were using a Kodak Versamat or other machine that was optimized for faster films, but I never went back to find out.

 

An unexpectedly warm developer temperature or a hot wash could exaggerate grain. Every lab has a bad day eventually, and this might have been theirs.

The black streaks run along the length of the film, so they could be caused by a tiny leak in the shutter curtain that admits light as the film is advanced. Scratches would be more distinct, I believe. But I may be wrong, so I suggest checking the film gate, shutter curtain (or blades), and pressure plate for anything that might scratch the film as it's advanced. Small particles in the felt lips of a film cartridge can also scratch the film.

 

The excessive grain may be caused by film development or negative scanning. Kodak D76 has long been considered the industry standard for b&w film development, but it dates to the 1920s and is inferior to newer developers, in my opinion. If you're seriously going to shoot b&w film, I suggest developing it yourself. You don't need a darkroom, enlarger, or trays to develop film. I have found that Kodak T-Max developer works well with Kodak and Ilford films. It yields fine grain and full emulsion speed. It also keeps well in a partially filled bottle when refrigerated.

 

You didn't say if your posted images were scanned from darkroom prints or the negatives. Scanning conventional b&w films can exaggerate the grain if the scanner has a hard light source, as Nikon film scanners do. The old Minolta film scanner was much better in this respect, but few of them survive because they weren't built as well as the Nikon scanners. Some flatbed scanners have a softer light source, but they're usually not sharp enough for 35mm. If your posted images were scanned from darkroom prints made with a condenser enlarger, that could also account for the grain. Diffusion enlargers aren't as grainy.

Yes . . . What you describe as "vertical" strips are actually horizontal lines. In the image posted, the one on the right looks like they could be scanning artifacts. If you are not making wet prints, examine the negative under a strong loupe or dig out the enlarger to project it and see if the lines are there.

 

The grain doesn't look excessive in the images. HP5 isn't particularly "gainless" and you don't say what developer you used.

 

Scratches ARE a possibility. As noted, if it's one roll it's the canister. If it's every roll, it's the camera.

 

Light leaks cause white strips on prints. Not black.

The vertical black line look very much like similar lines I had on some negative scans. I tracked them down to the scanner. If you examine the negatives with a magnifying glass or loupe, do you see the lines? If you do not, suspect the scanner.

 

As for the grain, it is not bad for over exposed HP5 and D76 stock, especially if the temperature was raised and the time diminished, as some commercial labs do.

so they could be caused by a tiny leak in the shutter curtain that admits light as the film is advanced.

Except the Nikon FE has a vertically-running metal shutter, which would seem to eliminate that idea.

 

The streaks look more like scanner 'calibration' lines from dust or marks on the calibration area of a glass platen scanner.

 

Ask the lab what scanner they're using. If it's one where the film is scanned in lengthwise strips (Epson V series for example), then that could be the issue.

 

The grain could also be a scanning artefact, or due to under-exposure, which tends to exaggerate grain. Do the negs look 'thick' or 'thin'?

 

I think the lines are too blurred and ill-defined to be scratches. Scratches before development tend to develop darker on the negative, and so would show as lighter lines in the positive. Post-processing scratches on the back of the film would be more diffuse, but would also 'print' lighter. So a dirty scanner glass seems the most likely explanation.

 

On second viewing, maybe the lines are a bit too wavy to be scanner-related, which would be dead straight. And that leaves drying marks as an alternative. Can you see any surface lines on the film?

Edited June 25, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

Thanks guys, lots of good info here. I'm going to have an experienced Nikon tech look over my FE. However i suspect the issues with the images are mostly from the development end of things. I'm also going to shoot a roll on my FM2 which I know is functioning perfectly and will send it to a different lab. I guess one of the things I'm learning is when you develop film and then scan and print it on a printer you've left film photography and are now doing digital which can introduce artifacts. A nuance I guess many of us accept given the real estate and complexity needed for a full-up darkroom.

I guess one of the things I'm learning is when you develop film and then scan and print it on a printer you've left film photography and are now doing digital which can introduce artifacts.

Exactly!

If you're only going to end up with a digital image, then why not cut out the middle-man and shoot digital to start with?

 

Any grain exaggeration is caused by an interaction (moire or interference effect) between the irregular film grain and the regular scanner pixel spacing. It's not a purely digital artefact.

Edited June 27, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

Light leaks cause white strips on prints. Not black.

 

Right you are. I was thinking too negatively.