diluting the film/fixer times?

<p>hello!<br />finally got all my chemicals and supplies i still needed for the darkroom....so this will be my first time trying. <br />so im going to ask some rather stupid questions as i'm still unsure of a few things..<br>

i bought ilford rapid fixer and ilfosol 3 developer. i have a kodak stop bath and photoflo (is it bad to mix the two brands?) anyways when i says to dilute the concentrate on the developer/fixer etc whats the difference in the 1+9 and 1+14? you mix this with the film in the tank right? i got the times and temp for the developer for my film but i don't know the fixer times; i looked it up and i heard something about putting a leader in the fixer and waiting until it turns clear and then mult. that time by 2? what does that mean? <br />and with the stop bath you agitate and then let it sit for 1 minute? after that do you wash it out with water or just go straight to the fixer? <br />im using ilford hp5 plus 400 film.<br>

thank you :)</p>

<p>first I did not type the info below the line.<br>

I copied it.<br>

second: if you dlmute developer as reccomented and discard the diluted developer after ONE use.<br>

every film should come out the same.<br>

IF however you use a STOCK SOLUTION ( not a liquid concentrate)<br>

the developer may be the same for 1-2 rolls BUT soon you will either have to lengthen the time or add some fresh developer or "replenticher" It is better to use a liquid concentraste , dilute it as suggested, and use a fresh batch the next time. below is a mini-manual<br>

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Wolfes - B&W Film Processing Hints<br /><br />photo:<br /><br />BLACK AND WHITE FILM PROCESSING HINTS<br /><br />These hints are assembled from questions we are most often asked and problems<br />we most often encounter. Solutions are from the experiences of Wolfe's<br />personnel and helpful customers. Due to variations of personal taste and<br />limited information sources, not all suggestions will work for everyone.<br /><br />BASIC PROCESSING STEPS<br /><br />Production of black and white photographs is divided into film processing and<br />print processing. Film is exposed to light (using your camera). The processed<br />film becomes a negative which is used to produce a positive image on<br />photographic paper (photo print) using a contact frame or an enlarger.<br /><br />Film processing is usually divided into:<br /><br />DEVELOPER--a chemical that reacts with the exposed silver on the film turning<br />it black, which creates the negative image.<br /><br />STOP--does just that-stops the action of the developer. This step reduces<br />carry-over contamination of the fix/hypo (next step).<br /><br />FIXER--also called hypo, clears off the undeveloped silver (shadow areas) of<br />the film, and makes the film permanently insensitive to light.<br /><br />HYPO NEUTRALIZER--a chemical solution that speeds up the release of fixer from<br />the film during washing to shorten wash time. Many permit 5 minutes or less<br />wash. It is used between the fixer and wash steps.<br /><br />WASH--this plain water rinse dilutes and removes the fixer solution from the<br />film. The length of time and amount of water used in this step can be reduced<br />by using a hypo neutralizer bath before starting the washing.<br /><br />PHOTO-FLO--a wetting agent that reduces surface tension, allowing water to flow<br />off without leaving drops that dry to form spots on the film emulsion. These<br />dried spots from regular water without photo-flo will not wash off and usually<br />cannot be removed with film cleaner.<br /><br />FILM PROCESSING TECHNIQUE<br /><br />DEVELOPER HINTS--most experts recommend 5 seconds agitation every 30 seconds<br />throughout the development time for film processed at normal ratings. All<br />agitation should be at a moderate rate--if you shake the tank too violently,<br />streaking can result.<br /><br />PREVENTING AIR BUBBLES--pouring solutions into a daylight development tank can<br />trap air on the film. Always tap your tank on a solid surface to dislodge air<br />bubbles (also called air bells) when you've poured in a solution to start the<br />processing. If the bubbles are allowed to remain they will appear as small<br />clear or lighter circles on the negative after processing is complete. If<br />you're having trouble with bubbles try these ideas. Before you start to process<br />the film, try a short presoak (1 to 2 minutes) in water or water with a few<br />drops of photo-flo added. If film is excessively dry, bubbles stick tighter and<br />presoaking will usually allow them to float off as the developer is poured in.<br />Avoid using freshly mixed developer, especially if your mixing faucet has an<br />aerator. Don't shake up developer before using it. Air added to developer by<br />the aerator or by shaking can cling to the film, causing spots.<br /><br />STOP BATH-ACETIC ACID or PLAIN WATER?--as in most processes there are two (at<br />least) schools of thought. One of these is that to minimize fixer contamination<br />from developer carried over the film, an acid stop is most effective (1/2 oz.<br />of 28% acid per quart of water). Photographers striving for the ultimate in<br />fine grain usually use plain water. Time for either method is 30 seconds to a<br />minute.<br /><br />FIXER--rapid fixer is preferred since it reduces fixing time and is harder<br />fixing. Fixing time is 2-5 minutes in rapid fix compared to 5-10 minutes<br />required in regular fixer. Extra hardening in the fixer is desirable for finer<br />grain and a more durable emulsion surface. If the fixer is old (over 30 days)<br />twice the clearing time is the minimum recommended time. Clearing time is the<br />time the film takes to lose its creamy gray or pink color in the clear areas.<br />Cream colored areas in dry film indicates insufficient fixing or exhausted<br />fixer. If this happens to you, refix (in fresh fixer) and rewash to clear the<br />film.<br /><br />WASH--for archival permanence (film that will not begin to fade in a few years<br />or less), at least 30 minutes<br />is recommended in a good film wash. For a fine grain, a shorter time such as<br />about 10 minutes is better, as the grain (clumps of silver that form the film<br />image) tend to swell while wet. Use of a hypo neutralizer can reduce wash time<br />to below 3 minutes. Orbit Bath and Hustler are both easy to use liquid<br />neutralizers.<br /><br />DRYING--many people use distilled water in their photo-flo due to the dirt in<br />Topeka's water. This is especially advisable in summer. A squeegee will also<br />take off extra crud on film, but be careful to keep the squeegee clean. Dirt<br />caught on the squeegee can scratch the film. Once dirt has dried on the film<br />emulsion, it often will not come off. Do not fast dry film with a room heater<br />or hair dryer. This can cause significant grain increase. A room heater or hair<br />dryer at several feet away, or just a fan, will speed up drying if needed. It<br />is best to cut and file film immediately after it is dry. If it is rolled up<br />and stored, often the curl is hard to get back out.<br /><br /> SPECIAL PROCESSING HINTS<br /><br />1. Less frequent agitation will produce lower contrast in your negatives.<br />Because of less chemical activity there will also be some increase in<br />processing time. The HC110R chart following this section shows times and<br />agitation for good push processing results.<br /><br />2. The higher 72 degrees to 75 degrees processing temperatures give shorter<br />processing time with no increase in grain. Use all steps at whatever<br />temperature you start with.<br /><br />3. Pull processing: Sometimes it is desirable to reduce film speed in<br />development. When it is done intentionally, it is usually to give an expanded<br />tonality to the film. When it is done accidentally, the film is pulled to save<br />incorrectly exposed film. Reducing developing time by 20% gives approximately<br />one stop speed reduction, or 1/2 of the ISO rating (example: ISO 400 becomes<br />ISO 200). Because the tones extend excessively with excess overexposure and<br />extreme under processing, more reduction is not recommended, however 2 to 3<br />stops of overexposure will normally be printable with about 30% reduction from<br />normal processing time. Do not reduce time on T-Max or other flat grain film. A<br />10% time reduction can cause serious contrast has and over 1 stop speed loss.<br /><br />4. Paper backed roll film, such as 120, seems to process slower than their 35mm<br />counterparts. For best results, try about 10% time than for the 35mm version of<br />the film.<br /><br /> CORRECT EXPOSURE UNDER LOW LIGHT<br /><br />1. Averaging reflected meters as used in most 35mm cameras generally read one<br />stop too low on football arid basketball. In unfamiliar locations it is best to<br />push one stop further than the meter reading (for example, if your meter is set<br />for ISO 1600, process for ISO 3000).<br /><br />2. For theatrical performance, when a spot light is being used, process for<br />half the film speed the meter is set at (example, with meter set for ISO 1600,<br />process for ISO 800). This does not apply to stages with even or full stage<br />illumination, where your meter should be correct.<br /><br />3. When pushing other than 400 speed film exposed indoors, process for one stop<br />higher than meter rating (example: Plus-X shot indoor at ISO 250 should be<br />processed at ISO 500). This does not apply to flash and daylight. Most 400<br />speed films have increased red sensitivity for tungsten exposure. Most slower<br />films do not, so they need extra exposure under light bulb illumination only.<br /><br /> KODAK T-MAX FILMS AND DEVELOPER<br /><br />T-MAX AND SIMILAR NEW FILMS<br />A new category of black and white films have been appearing in the 90's. Called<br />T-grain, flat grain, tabular grain or similar labeling, it so far is in most<br />color films but only Kodak T-Max series and Ilford Delta series black and white<br />films, It is finer grain than it's standard grain counterparts and being<br />thinner emulsion is considered to have higher resolution.<br /><br />Some unique traits of these films: (1) normal processing requires longer time<br />than standard film. (2) fixing requires about twice as long as previous films.<br />(3) It easily pushes one stop with only a slight additional time increase from<br />normal. (4) Response to various developers is not the same as traditional<br />films. For example. Kodak HC-110R, recommended for extreme push with Kodak<br />Tri-X and Ilford HP-5 does not push T-Max film nearly as well. Response to D-76<br />and the special T Max developer is excellent however. (5) In printing, it may<br />he hard to tell the emulsion from the backing. The emulsion has a sheen rather<br />than being dull, and the back is matte coated for retouching, so both have a<br />semi dull appearance. If in doubt look at the numbers on the film edge and get<br />them right side up.<br /><br />IT'S NOT 3200! Kodak places a "P' before the film speed on several films they<br />make to show that the rating is not the normal rating, but a rating the film<br />can be ''pushed'' up to and still maintain excellent quality. The true rating<br />for P-3200 is ISO 800-1000.<br /><br /> KODAK T-MAX DEVELOPER<br /><br />An easy to use liquid developer providing excellent results with popular black<br />& white films, especially compatible with T-Max films. Excellent results with 1<br />and 2 stop push, moderate quality for 3 stop push. We do not recommend more<br />than 3 stop push or 21 minutes processing due to what appears to be a chemical<br />absorption causing a fog that noticeably reduces negative quality.<br /><br />For use, Kodak recommends 1:4 dilution. Our tests have been run at 1:4 or, when<br />using small stainless tanks (8 ounce or 16 ounce) 1« ounces developer with 61/2<br />ounces water to achieve an even figure for easier measurement.<br /><br />In order to reduce the cost of chemistry, Kodak does suggest the following:<br />''For non-critical use, developer life can be extended by adding one minute to<br />the time for each process run (maximum of three). For example: RoIl 1 in 8 oz.<br />of developer 7 min. Roll 2 in the same solution 8 min. Roll 3 in the same<br />solution 9 min. After three rolls, the developer should be discarded.''<br /><br />We would add (1) if you are push processing, you will exhaust the developer<br />faster, so greater time increase would be required. (2) Kodak does not clearly<br />state keeping ability of used developer. They do give the time for keeping of a<br />mixed working solution in a half full bottle at 2 months, so we would expect<br />that mixed, used solution in a full bottle could he used possibly as much as a<br />month later. If the pictures are important, 2 weeks or less based on the<br />chemical still being about the same color as when poured in the bottle (if it<br />gets darker, use becomes more questionable).<br>

==============end of mini-manmual=======</p>

<p>1. I don't think mixing different brands of chemicals is a problem. They are just slightly different.<br>

2. 1:9 means one part solution A to 9 parts water. That's different from 1:14. That would be one part solution A to 14 parts water.<br>

3. You pre-mix these solutions in separate containers. I suggest you get the chemicals within 1 degree F of each other before processing. Use a large tub of water to put the containers in with mixed solutions. That helps a bit for consistency.<br>

4. Fix film in Rapid Fix for 1-2 minutes. Fix film in regular fixer 5-10 minutes. There should be little instruction sheets included with your chemicals. You should read these. There is a difference between fixing film and paper, whick takes longer.<br>

5. Sure, use Stop Bath for more consistent results. You can agitate a bit more with Stop bath if you want. I think the standard time for Stop Bath for Film is 30 sec.<br>

6. The test procedure is the time it takes for a film to clear to clear film. I wouldn't worry about this. Just keep your fixer fairly fresh. Use Edwal Hypo testing solution to test your fixer. If the drop of Edwal turns white, then throw out the fixer.<br>

7. After the Stop bath, (save it) you can rinse with water if you like. No harm and it helps the fixer last a bit longer but you don't have to.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>so im going to ask some rather stupid questions</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>i have a kodak stop bath and photoflow (is it bad to mix the two brands?)</p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>NO</strong></p>

<blockquote>

<p>anyways when i says to dilute the concentrate on the developer/fixer etc whats the difference in the 1+9 and 1+14? you mix this with the film in the tank right?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You mix the developer or fixer in another container then pour it into the processing tank with the film in it if using a daylight tank, in a darkroom mix the developer in the tank then with the lights off add the film.<br />The dilution you use for the developer depends on the minimum amount of developer you must use for the amount of film you are processing and the volume of the tank.<br /><a href="http://www.henrys.ca/HenrysResources/ILFOSOL-3.pdf">http://www.henrys.ca/HenrysResources/ILFOSOL-3.pdf</a><br />follow the mixing instructions in this technical publication.<br />Rapid Fixer (concentrate) dilution: 1:4 is for films; 1:9 for paper.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>i got the times and temp for the developer for my film but i don't know the fixer times; i looked it up and i heard something about putting a leader in the fixer and waiting until it turns clear and then mult. that time by 2? what does that mean?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>When you cut the end off a film leader it will be gray or black, as fixer works on the undeveloped silver salts it neutralizes them leaving the blank film base. Proper fixing time is twice the time it takes the film to clear. If the film becomes clear in 1 1/2 minutes then fix for 3 minutes, if it takes the film 2 minutes to clear then fix for 4 minutes. General rule of thumb for films is 3 to 5 minutes so you can just fix for at least 3 minutes but no longer than 5 minutes and be certain that your film is fixed. Extra fixing can bleach the film but that may not happen until 10 to 15 minutes.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>after that do you wash it out with water or just go straight to the fixer?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You can do either. If you plan on reusing the fixer then a water rinse between chemicals will help the fixer last longer.</p>

<p>soory for adding the long text file. and the other tips<br>

add and help the unbderstanding.<br>

it is not rocket science, but common sense.<br>

and if you have never done it becore, it can be mysterious.<br>

One of the biggest pains can be loading film on the reel.<br>

35mm is a LOT easier than 120.<br>

the REASON for keeping solutions at the same or close to the same temerature,<br>

is to avoid "reticulation" or wrinkling of the gelatinme emulsion.<br>

not as likely today with thinner and harder emulsions.</p>

<p>Another " big pain" is making all solutions at or close to 68 def or 72 deg f.<br>

a "sliding chart to sho development times for a narrow range of temps is helpful.<br>

Do not stray to far, like 50 deg or 80 deg but try hard to stay close to 68-72<br>

deg f. and adjust development times accordingly.<br>

if it is very hot ( summer) or very cold ( winter) the tem,p.can drift.<br>

it is not nearly as critical as with color film.<br>

enjoy and it can really get you involved.<br>

Do Not worry if folks say B&W? or DIGITAL? OLD FASHIONED?<br>

just enjoy the results.</p>

<p>I load my film in the tank before I mix the chemistry up, then I pour it in to the tank. Your developer has 2 dilutions, 1:9 and 1:14. The 1:9 will give you better contrast but the 1:14 will give you more economy as well as a longer developing time. Here is what I copied from one of my other posts on the subject of longer developing times."Using a more diluted solution also has the advantage of the length of time for developing. If you have a developer that is very active like HC110, which is a Liquid, you might end up with a very short time in developing. Ok, you are just beginning and you are not that use to the time it takes to fill the tank and how much time it takes to empty the tank. For our little example here lets say that you have some film and at a dilution B of HC110 the developing time is say 5 minutes, but when you check the temperature of your developer you notice that it is at 72º and not 68º. So you look up the temperature table and it tells you that you need to adjust the time to 4 minutes. Now for our example here you take 15 seconds to fill the tank, oh about 3 seconds to get the cap on and then another 2 to get the timer started. Then when you dump the developer out, you start at 5 seconds before the clock hits 0 it takes another 15 or so seconds to empty out and you pour in the stop bath to arrest the developer. So we have about 35 or so seconds above the 4 minutes wanted for developing, if I did my math right that is about 15% more developing. So lets say we do it over again, this time we use dilution F which is 2½ times the time of dilution B. So our starting time is 12½ minutes, adjust for temperature and we have 10 minutes and 15 seconds. Now with our same 35 seconds or so with the pouring and emptying and all of that the difference is only a little over 5%. <br /> Now I'm not saying that you don't know the time it takes to empty and fill your tank, this was just a hypothetical situation, but you see the difference that it made, 5% over developed instead of 15% over developed.<br /> One disadvantage might be that you get thinner negatives or you might not have enough developer in your solution to get the job all the way done.<br /> I usually use D76 powder at 1:1.<br>

And also very glad to see that you are developing your own negative, Welcome to the darkside."<a href="00WzqH"> The original post is in this thread.</a> </p>

<p>Again this is just a hypothetical situation. I would recommend getting and using a notebook in your developing. This way when you find something that you like, you should be able to repeat it. When I first started, I found that my negatives where a little bit thin so I began developing for longer. Everytime I change films I do a test roll and start with the recommended time and see how it does. I use a camera that gives me good results to do the test roll. If I don't like how it turns out, I shoot another test roll and develop. If it needs another adjustment, then another test roll is shot. After the test roll is shot then a full length roll is shot, this verifies that there is enough developer in the mix to get the job done. I have the benefit of making short rolls because I usually buy 100' rolls of film.<br>

I use a digital thermometer, I take a reading of the developer before dilution. I use D76 at 1:1 so it makes more difference than 1:9 or 1:14. If my developer is 70ºf then I add in water that is 66ºf and mix, it comes out 68ºf, I pour and go. If my developer is 70º then so is the stop bath and fixer, close enough. I believe the developer temperature is more critical so I usually try and run right at 68º.</p>

<p>My 2¢ worth.</p>