Canon FTb, Light meter and batteries.

<p>Hi everyone.<br /> I have just joined this fabulous forum after long nights of reading it's contents.<br /> So, I am new to photography and even newer to Canon FD cameras, but despite I have purchased Canon FTb first series. Love at first sight.</p>

<p>I got it of ebay, seller could not tell anything about its history. There was an 7 years old invoice for re-hauling this camera, however it doesn't say anything about adjusting meter's voltage to alkaline batteries it came with. Battery was dead anyway, so I have bought Wein cell. And first question: I measured voltage and it is 1.45v . Is it normal?<br /> Second question. Whilst checking meter's battery state (set ASA 100, Tv 1/1000s, and pull lever to C) needle isn't exactly at "square" seen at right side of viewfinder but slightly above. To visualize it: if "square" was at 8 o'clock, needle would be at 8:20. If I insert alkaline battery (1.55v) needle goes even higher, up to 8:40. Hence I suppose camera's meter wasn't calibrated for higher voltage of alkaline battery, am I right?</p>

<p>And to puzzle me even more, after developing pictures taken according to meter's indications turns out all pictures were slightly overexposed ( too bright).</p>

<p>As far as I learned from reading this forum, best and cheapest solution would be to set ISO to higher, is that correct?</p>

<p>Many thanks,<br /> Dominik</p>

<p>an alkaline cell is not stable, Your meter will be off one<br>

way or the other wityh an alkaline cell.<br>

a cheap zinc-air hearing aid battery IS stable.<br>

A silver oxide battery ( cell is fine if the camera goes in for a cla<br>

and the repairman addes a SHOTTKY DIODE in series with the battery wire.<br>

this is a permanent fix. but for the meantime use the zinc-air battery<br>

it may last several months.<br>

This is a common problem with older cameras that were designed for a banned Mercury cell.<br>

you may "skate by" with the alkaline cell, but some photos will either be over or under exposed.<br>

Many of these 20-30-50 year old cameras are great machines,<br>

now with better color film you will get results far better then with some of the newer "plastic wonders"</p>

 

<p>Walter,<br>

Thank you for prompt reply.<br>

Camera will not go for a CLA anytime soon, it would quadruple price I paid for it. I forgot to mention that overexposed pictures were taken with somewhat stable Wein cell, and since it's voltage is higher than mercury's 1.3v shouldn't my pictures be underexposed rather?<br>

So, if I started using 675 Hearing aid batteries and compensated it by adjusting ISO would that be OK?<br>

( Sorry for this question, I just prefer to be sure what I am trying to achieve instead of wasting good roll of film)<br>

And if it isn't so dumb idea any suggestion how to find out proper setting? Keep in mind that I am new to photography :)</p>

<p>I've used two methods: hearing aid batteries, no need to adjust settings, alkaline battery with a sleeve to avoid battery moving around in the battery compartment, with 400 film color print, I set the meter to ISO 200. If all else fails use a handheld meter or a digital camera (only as an exposure meter, not to take pictures). Spending money to fix or recalibrate the meter is not financially feasable in my view. I've had a satin chrome Canon FTBn for sale for several months with no takers. </p><div></div>

<p>If you're planning on using the FTb, Dominik, then it makes perfect sense to have the meter recalibrated, the shutter calibrated, and the light seals and mirror foam redone. I've done this with all of my F-1's and FTb's.</p>

<p>But if you're just planning on re-selling rather than using it, I agree with Paul that it's a waste of money to pay to have any servicing done.</p>

<p>I'm just wondering how the pictures turned out so poorly exposed.</p>

<p>If using modern color print film, a competent lab should easily be able to produce reasonable prints which are off two stops, sometime more. If your camera is off more than that, it is not likely that the problem is the battery. I'd be wondering about other factors, such as the shutter speeds, etc.</p>

<p>Dominik,<br>

Are you checking the battery with the ASA set to 100 and the shutter speed at 1/1000 sec?<br>

Also, if you are in need of a manual, here is a link. This guy just asks for a $3.00 donation, which is money well spent, in my opinion. FYI, I bought mine new in 1978, still have the original manual. I had a major CLA a few years ago and they converted it to run on alkaline, didn't even know they were going to do it. Meter works perfectly ever since, checked against my 20D and got the same exposure.<br>

<a href="http://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon/canon_ftb/canon_ftb.htm">http://www.butkus.org/chinon/canon/canon_ftb/canon_ftb.htm</a></p>

<p>George</p>

 

<p>George,<br /> I have original 40 years old scotch taped manual, but thank you anyway.</p>

<p>Michael,<br /> Pictures aren't that bad , I just remember using larger f-number than built-in meter's needle was telling me whilst taking them. They are just too bright to my liking. Could be that photo lab's computer made it so well lit?</p>

<p>Mark,<br /> I do intent to use that camera, not to resell, however CLA costs 70 £ which is four times more than I paid for camera and couple of lenses. Shutter speeds seems all right, as far as someone with a timer can tell, there are no light leaks. For CLA's and camera price I could find nice F-1.Unless anyone knows cheaper and reliable camera service in Great Britain</p>

<p>Paul,<br /> Hearing aid batteries would have similar voltage to my wein cell, doesn't it affect your meter? Where exactly is needle when you perform battery check? Does cutting ISO number in half does the trick for alkaline battery in your case?</p>

<p>Dominik, my mechanical bodies rarely need full CLA's, but usually need to have their shutters calibrated, and I have their meters re-calibrated at the same time.</p>

<p>But your point is well taken. It's hard to justify spending a lot more for servicing a body than it's worth.</p>

<p>when people say the alkaline cell is not stable it means it starts at 1.,5 or 1.55 volts<br>

as the cell is used the voltage gradually declines<br>

somewhere down the line the voltage will be 1.,35 and then it<br>

gradually contimnues to decline and soon the metered photos nare way off in the other direction<br>

the original design was a mercury 1.35 volt cell. it was a series circuit and strictly depended in a fixed 1.35v for accurate readings. A chart of an alkaline cell is a sloping line.<br>

despite what the LOONY battery manufacturers say it nEVER meters correctly.<br>

except for one day sometime after the battery ages for a certain time.<br>

The reason some get away with it is thet color print film is very tolerant<br>

if it were oild clide film days, you would be disposing of many of your slides and possible " the crappy camera as well<br>

the zinc-air wein or hearing aid cell are similar. 1.4v very close to what the original decign called for<br>

and at the end of life DIE very quickly.<br>

remeber I said the alkaline cell has a sloping voltage as it ages?<br>

Thes other cells have pretty much a straight line and drop off abruptly at the end.<br>

the silver oxide cell has a long life-possibly 2 years- and also drops off sharply at the end<br>

BUT the voltage is as high or higher than the alkaline cell.<br>

and will giv CONSISTANT wrong readings., same readings from new to about dead.<br>

since the metering circuitry requires a stable voltage, this makes the alkaline cell a poor choice.<br>

However there IS a fix<br>

a semiconductor diode has a ficed voltage drop when put in series with a camera meter cirucit.<br>

the common silicon diode is 0.6v to great<br>

but there is a Shottky diode that drops the silver oxide cell to a voltage very close to that of a priginal mercury cell.<br>

such a diode costs about 50 cents and a handyman with a little knowledge can add one inside your camera.<br>

this is a permanent change, and from then on you just use the silver-oxide cell that is used also for electronic watches.<br>

meanwhile, just go to an active Pharmacy and buy a 6 pack of hearing aid cells for about a dollar each</p>

<p>peel off the sealing label and the moisture in the air will activete the cell.<br>

In dry climates, it may last a month, in temporate areas it may last several months.<br>

these cells, intended for higher current use in a hearing aid<br>

have 4 timny dents that allow moisture in.<br>

by coalting two with crazy glue or nail polish, the drying out is slowed down<br>

DO NOT buy too many as they will eventually dry out even if unused.</p>

<p>a few cameras, most notably pentaxes, used a bridge or balancing meter circuit<br>

and are less fussy about cell voltage. but 99% of the rest need a stable 1.35volts which the alkaline cell never provides. cell-1 battery= more then one several cells in series.<br>

But it is common usage to refer to a cell like a AA cell as a battery.</p>

<p>When my FTb faced the no-more-mercury-cells problem, the best solution I found was to buy an adapter which consisted of a hollow 625 shell with a Schottky diode soldered along the rim. A commonly available SR44 (silver oxide) cell went in, and its output of 1.55V was reduced to 1.35V. The adapter was made by Frans de Gruijter of Holland, who also sold kits for those who wanted to make their own. Even with the correct voltage, though, the meter was wildly off. I got good readings for ASA 100 when the film speed set was ASA 640.</p>

<p>The problem seems to be caused by yourself. When you write that you took the photos with a larger f-stop than suggested by the meter then no surprise that they come out over-exposed.<br>

By the way, wein-cells and zinc-air hearing-aid batteries are more or less the same. It's zinc-air in both of them them.</p>

<p>I use either 675 hearing-aid batteries with an adapter to fit them snugly in the battery compartment (available on ebay) or 675 mercury cells which can still be bought on ebay. I also use the adaptor then.</p>

<p>Idealy and the cheapest is just using zinc-air cells<br>

I am aware of the KIT than can be used in several cameras.<br>

I like the idea of making a change inside the camera unless that camera requires work that might expose things that could be damaged. or wires getting tangled in gears or sprindsw<br>

I would alo make a label endication that the camera has this mod and that a silber oxide cell works properly.<br>

Manking the bod is the most elegant solution.<br>

be aware, as older hearing aidd become popular,<br>

It could mean that the zinc-air cells will becpome harder to dind.<br>

[possibly inavailabe as older users pass away and newer folks use other hearing aids.<br>

t<br>

thren the only option is an adapter or moding the camera.<br>

As long as there is film we will be able to take great phptods<br>

and there will be no real need to buy a new camera.</p>

I simply use an adapter with a step-down resistor or diode, these cost about $20 or so. I can then use an SR44 battery

which will have it's power adjusted more or less to 1.35 volts. The meter may or may not be correct as they can

deteriorate over time. Shoot a roll or two anspd see how thhe pictures come out, if they are over or underexposed,

compensate by readjusting the ASA dial whichever way it needs to go.

<p>Thomas,<br /> I forgot that f number are fractions. What I meant was I was using 2.8 instead of 1.8 etc aperture settings.<br /> Walter,<br /> You are right, 1 cell=cell, battery of cells=battery, there is the same thing in my native tongue, I even knew that in English, but I had have forgotten. Thank you.<br /> Anyway, out of dozen camera services companies in GB I enquired to adjust my FTb 8 refused replying that they don't do such old cameras because of lack of spare parts (sic!) 3 asked over 60 British pounds plus return shipping and one agreed to do it for mere 35 BGP +shipping (which is only twice what I paid)<br /> Thanks all again for help, really appreciate that.<br /> Also, I started to thing about purchasing one more FTb, strip it, and try to overhaul it myself, when I grow to that thing I will post report.</p>

<p>first of all, congratulations on acquiring a great tank of a camera. the FTb was released at the same time as the F-1, and is the quintessential FD camera. if you don't want to hassle with expensive internal modifications or battery adapters, my advice is that you pop in a SR44 with a rubber spacer, calibrate it more or less against a reliable handmeter or an A-1 (uses a silicon meter) on the day you're going to use it and you're fine for a day or three. cheap and cheerful. my b&w exposures turn out just fine. good luck and look forward to seeing your gear and results. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Play with camera.It might need exercise! Shoot different speeds. Learn to hear each shutter speed. The 15th should have a little-after noise.Shutter brake.Look at lens closing down. See different apertures. Look what you can "see" in viewfinder. See depth of field, even as it gets darker..<br>

Get a very regular film ,Fuji or Kodak. The ones that are sold 3 at a time! Forget the meter! Try "f-16" rule. All over the internet is a "f16 guide" for different lighting. We all managed fine before all the AUTO help, of crutches and ultimately wheelchairs.<br>

It really is easy. It is f16 at shutter speed closest to film speed in bright sunlight. See how that compares to your meter. Prints should be close no matter what was set. Color negative has vast possibilities and better tolerances.. It is neither slides nor digital.<br>

A lot of my older cameras do need attention! I feel like Napoleon retreating from Moscow with wounded and maimed troops(my equipment). If it still sort of functions use it!<br>

This is a mechanical camera. The shutter speeds seldom exact! The 1000th closer to 750th. It could be worse! It could be a Hasselblad with Compur shutter in EACH lens with varying speeds! The 500th on a Compur shutter may only be 300th esp. at use with small apertures!<br>

Film as I said has tolerance. I have low scans done here in Canada for $3.00 including development. I can then do Photo-shop or my favorite "picassa". real easy to learn!<br>

The suggestion of hearing aid cells not my choice.. rather go with the varying alkaline cells.<br>

A resistor can be fitted with cell in compartment to use silver oxide cell. The silver cells very good.</p>