All Gone?

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by love4leica, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. Not much happening here - All gone - WHY? Used to be very active and busy once upon a time ;-(.........
  2. Well, since you want a response: I just got a 75mm lux for my M6. Naturally I am wondering about whether I would like to try an M9 body. If you have one do you like it? What are the faults or drawbacks, other than the price? How does it compare to the Canons & Nikons?
  3. The was a thread on the same subject a month or two ago that was closed down by the mods.
  4. It's certainly been a touch quieter this year compared to previously. But it is summer in the northern climes and time for the annual migrations to the ritual mating - oops photographing - grounds. Maybe September and the short days will again see the return of the exotic Leica birds for over-wintering here.
    Having just 'snagged' a very cheap and clean R6, I am itching to get out and use it, but the search for an affordable 180mm f3.4 APO is further distracting me . . . Yet if I do buy one I may not be able to afford to leave the house, let alone the home territory. And the threat of too much gear, too little time, is ever present!
  5. We've all bought, used, sold and discussed every possible combination of Leica body and lens in existence, and now spend our time snapping fine art photos with our Iphones! :)
    Seriously, interest goes in cycles. Things will pick up.
  6. As time goes and more and more questions get asked, then there is more information available on the net. One may not need to post a question because it was asked last year.
  7. All of the forums are much quieter than in the good old days. I think that digital is a lot of reason, most of us have graduated to digital and as a result we prefer to take photos and show them rather than talk about equipment which we used to do while we waited for photos to come back from the processors. A lot of the mystique has left photography as digital is a great leveller. This is not necessarily bad, of course.
  8. Just you wait, 'Ery 'Iggens, just you wait :)
  9. I like it as quiet as it is now. Too much noise and bickering in the past.
  10. I think it is just because of summer, and maybe the economy. I remember a lot more "what should I buy?" threads in the past. I'm glad to see those gone for now.
  11. There are probably a number of reasons, including the summer, but another may be the number of alternative forums on RF or Leica photography. One of the other forums I am not a member of but which I occasionally look at includes a few well known Leica users, like Bill Pearce and Roger Hicks, to name but two.
    I personally prefer the set-up of Photo.Net forums, because the presentation is simpler and I find it easier to follow discussions. It would be good for this forum to have a few very well-known Leica users, especially those who might be interested in discussing their approaches with the RF camera, whatever the make.
    It is also unfortunate that those who give Leica workshops, or are close to the strategy of Leica, are not frequent posters. While it is good to share opinions and approaches with other amateur or professional Leica photographers, the former might inject some new thoughts into this forum.
    Perhaps also the increasing high cost of new Leica equipment is diminishing the number of photographers able to invest in RF photography. There are many desirable Leica products beyond my ability to pay or of simply too limited a use to seriously consider. My own acquisitions are often second hand Leica items, and some of this older equipment has already been the subject of discussions and approaches to use.
  12. Arthur, Roger Hicks was a great contributor to PN, making over 7000 posts.
    I don't know why he left, but I did see he seemed to be flamed at times, the last time I noticed was when he again mentioned a book he wrote. (A shame really, it was a great book, I bought it before I even heard of him.)
    I think Jay left (banned) and is off mumbling to himself, "Dammit they won't listen to me, the MP rewind is terrible!". I'm not sure why Al K. left, there was a rumor he was caught spanking monkey, jaja.
    Those colorful days are long gone, but the Leica Forum was more of a Feisty Old Man Club than a photo forum, but it sure was fun. Times change.
    But I'm still amazed there are so few higher end lenses for sale. Keh used to have more then 3-4 Noctis for sale, a bunch of 17/1,4s, 35/1,4 ASPHs were common. Now you only see these being advertised on fleaBay out of Hong Kong for crazy prices. Any ideas? M9 buyers soaking them up?
    Bruce, I used to see the 75/1,4 selling for 2-300 bucks more then the current 2.0 ASPH used, now either is scarce. The price of the 1,4 started to rise as the M8.x was accepted for what it was. I know a few M8 shooters that bought it. On an M9 it could only be better.
    So why has the used market availability for the 35/1,4s, 75/1,4s, most of the 50s disappeared?
  13. "Having just 'snagged' a very cheap and clean R6, I am itching to get out and use it, but the search for an affordable 180mm f3.4 APO is further distracting me"
    I have been also keeping an eye for one of those 180/3.4's, from the auction site to other classifieds, they are simply expensive as hell, particularly the cleaner samples.
    One of these days.
  14. Michael, I also miss Jay. Not sure why he was banned. It seemed to me that there were several others that were far more objectionable than Jay that really ruined the Forum a few years ago. It was for that reason that I left for a couple of years.
    I believe that Al Kaplan passed away last year. A real loss of a fine contributor.
    Another superb photographer that hasn't been around for a while is Marc Williams from Franklin, Michigan. He seemed to be very busy but his posts were excellent. He had a great "eye".
    I have no digital equipment - just an adequate selection of M gear and a Liecaflex SL with 4 lenses. Don't use the R gear at all now and may sell it soon. I have some of my better slides scanned to cds and perhaps should post a few of them. Things will probably pick up once the cold weather returns for those of us in North America.
  15. It definitely is quieter now than what I remembered. Personally I have cycles in interest in my hobbies. Sometimes I like to take photos, sometimes I like to play guitar... Its a real shame to hear about Al Kaplan. I enjoyed his posts.
  16. SCL


    Yeah Al died in January, I believe (or maybe it was January when I heard about it). His family has kept his website up, but there isn't a lot of activity there these days. I use other Leica sites more than Pnet, just because there are less repetitive questions.
  17. I don't recall seeing a post on the M9 or S2 for quite some time, and if there are any, they aren't
    very frequent. If I had a question on the M9 I'm not sure this is where I'd ask it. Most of the people
    here seem to be into film gear.
  18. I go to the L-Camera forum at times but the posters are very caustic, much worse than here. Even some of the mods seem to get into the I know more than you know off topic craposts.

    I think Al was banned sometime in 07, at least that's when his last post was.

    I like the RFF where roger Hicks has seemed to have parked since leaving here. But I can't join as they say my Hotmail account is spam. APUG is also very good, but I just can't stand the digital revolution invented name "analog". Just a matter of silly principle.

    So I guess it's up to us to make this forum a lively and fun place. I wish we could get some fresh blood from the Pentax forum, a great bunch over there.
  19. Hot humid weather; bad economy; overpriced Leica offerings (buying, trying, and selling is not as easy as it was ten years ago); general depression all round.
  20. My friend is a very proud owner of Leica M9/M7 bodies, and he has all prime glasses for it.
    I just showed him an new bridge camera, the Fujifilm Finepix HS10, with its very long 24 - 720mm (!) zoom lens, which I've bought for my son for his trekking tours. The results are more than stunning!
    O.K., you really won't compare these two cameras, but, my friend got a little thoughtful, and he got so excited about it, that he will be for sure, going to buy this little camera for him.
    Just for fun!
  21. WNW used to be a hot topic on this forum, but no more. This activity apparently has moved over to No Words forum, with new theme and photo topics everyday, much like this forum of bygone days.
  22. Personally, I had to sell most of my Leica gear to buy a digital kit, and the price of the M8/M9 seemed out of the realm of reality and impossible for me to justify. In the days when film was king the s/h Leica market was expensive but just about do-able. I would love an M9, but it's high price has taken me out of the Leica realm - although I still have all my old Leica pics of course. I don't think I am alone. If you want to stay with film then Leica is still a good prospect; but, let's be honest, the vast majority of people have switched or are switching to digital. I may well go back to Leica when there is a good number of secondhand M9s around and they are seen to be "old" with a concurrent drop in price. The other issue I see is the way that many 3rd party M mount lenses are no longer ideal on digital M Leicas - no metadata, aberration correction etc that you only get with genuine M lenses - this inhibits the influx of new users starting with budget VC and ZM lenses.
    By the way, this is not a criticism of Leica as if I could afford it, an M9 kit would be superb; but for me now Leica is not a sensible option from this time forward. A shame, as I was a 25 year Leica M and R veteran. I do think these considerations have reduced the number of photonetters wanting to talk Leica.
  23. the price of the M8/M9 seemed out of the realm of reality and impossible for me to justify. In the days when film was king the s/h Leica market was expensive but just about do-able​
    +1 M8, M9 too much $$$...
  24. Robin,
    You will probably agree that the $2500 (for near-mint used condition) M8 may not be a best alternative in view of its 1.33X crop factor, but the less expensive VC and Zeiss lenses can in fact be coded to allow corrections for digital M Leica use. The coding (after market templates for coding) may not be perfect, but it is reasonable in both cost and efficiency. My experience is that lenses of focal length of 50mm and longer do not need the coding for most applications. One can have a used digital Leica and a few new VC lenses for something in the $3000 to $3500 price range. A new M9 with those lenses would be about 2.5 X that cost.
    The high cost of Leica digital cameras has no doubt impacted on the Leica RF forum activity level. I wonder how many film Leicaists have added non-Leica digital equipment to their camera bags? With the Leica to Canon lens mount conversion, The 5D Mark II must be an appealing device for some.
  25. Funny I should drop in to the forum and see this thread.
    I haven't been to the Leica/Rangefinder forum in some time...actually, I haven't been to PNet in a while either (according to my history, the last time I posted on PNet was January 2009). I guess the reason I've been inactive here had to do with my being forced into digital photography despite my screaming and fighting against it. About three years ago I surrendered and bought a Canon DSLR although I kept shooting with my Leica M6s until some time last year. It didn't take long to realize that most of the advise offered on internet forums concerning digital photography had nothing to do with what I wanted to do with photography. Sporadically, I posted an occasional question here on PNet but never got much useful information. And, from just a cursory scan, the Leica forum had changed too. I found it disturbing that many of the guys who had been here seemingly forever had stopped posting. Going back and reading some of the threads in the archives disturbed me even more. I saw a lot of egos at play. Even Al Kaplan had been ridiculed on occasions by one of the site's more prolific posters. Al apparently was eventually banned I understand. He was a valuable resource and his loss as well as the loss of others has certainly affected the product. I kept up with Al through his website and RFF until his death several months back.
    All gone? I guess it's just how things evolve. Or maybe devolve?
  26. Yeah, not too many new threads these days.
    I agree with the economy theory. What about "death of film" (-; ?
    I wouldn't want to put several hundreds of dollars into another film camera right now.
    Could really go for one of those shiny new M9s though; maybe if the DOW claws its way back to 14,000.
  27. It's not the economy, or cycles, or the cost of equipment, or anything like that.
    The Leica forum here stopped being a community years ago.
  28. It's not better or worse today. Fewer arguments (errr, discussions) about whether the M3 is better than the M2, or whether anybody really *needs* a Noctilux. It's like the neighborhood bar you stop in once and while and over time the customers change. It's just different.
  29. "The Leica forum here stopped being a community years ago."
    Peter N is bang on the money here.
  30. Communities have good and bad points. It's been a long time since I've been threatened by a Leica forum member.
  31. Being a more recent member of Photo.Net I cannot comment on the community nature of this forum that may have existed in the early 2000s, but I have found a lot of good help and discussion on this forum since I joined, and have enjoyed sharing my own knowledge and interests when possible.
    For me that is community. I also think a lot of the discussions here are serious and well intentioned and one does not find that consistently in some of the other forums, which I also find less readable than this one (in terms of physical layout and ease of back-scrolling).
    Interest will likely pick up in September, after the vacation period.
  32. The list of questions on this forum also appears shorter because of the short time (1 week) before the question is moved off to archive. Most other forums keep their questions up front for a longer time - 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks for example.
    I'd prefer a longer time before I have to go hunting in the archive for a recent question. At least 2 or 3 weeks.
  33. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    I'd prefer a longer time before I have to go hunting in the archive for a recent question. At least 2 or 3 weeks.​
    I've changed it to two weeks. Let's see how that goes.
  34. How do you access the archives? Where is it?
  35. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    How do you access the archives? Where is it?​
    On the forum home page.
  36. I've changed it to two weeks. Let's see how that goes.​
    Thank you, Jeff. Much appreciated. Looks better instantly. Positive psychological impact, too, I think.
  37. "With the Leica to Canon lens mount conversion, The 5D Mark II must be an appealing device for some."
    Particularly for R users, since Leica has no digital R body.
  38. This has always been my favourite forum as people have always been very helpful and friendly. I have to admit though that it has indeed become a lot more quiet. I'm glad to know it wasn't my imagination and that others have noticed it.
  39. Particularly for R users, since Leica has no digital R body.
    A little birdie has told me to watch for photokina this September.
  40. Martin, I agree. I only have M lenses, but my feeling is that even if Leica comes out with a digital R, it is not likely to be as inexpensive as the 5D Mark II, and may be lacking in the sensor strength or camera software of the Canon. The German company is in an odd situation, not having brought out any new R lenses in some time and having put its eggs in the medium format digital basket, one wonders if a new R digital would not hamper S2 sales, although it might be a totally fair gest towards the R camera users. Leica once had a strategic alliance with Minolta - why not Canon?
  41. I saw another thread not to long ago asking pretty much the same thing. They blamed the rise of digital but that wasnt the reason at all. I remember when there was something like 30 new threads a day here it was amazing. But simply the forum was allowed a free hand when it came from Greenspun but over time they slowly cuts its head off to make it assimilate to Photonet. They took away equipment for sale ads which would often promote a discussion about certain things and then they did the same to the words/no words. It became a target for much trolling from other photonet camera forums perceiving an elitism from Leica users, I remember Brian the head of photonet often stirring the pot here. People left, most went to the Rangefinder forum and other Leica Dedicated forums. The rangefinder forum just grows and grows, you cant blame the rise in digital and economic down turn when they seem to be growing.
  42. I know why I quit coming here - the constant rudeness, nastiness and bickering. In my opinion it finally drove everyone away.
  43. Haven't visited for ages, just dropped in, thought I'd post this. Met a great Leica friend through this site, shared many thoughtful posts since Greenspun days, learnt a lot, laughed a lot. Sniping comments are alway out there and always reflect more on the snipers than the snipee. A forum, or any community, is only as good as its members.
  44. Other sites are also suffering. Ironically, from success. The Leica/rangefinder evangelism that attracted a fair bit of backbiting actually broke down the mystique and got many more people discussing rangefinders (and maybe even using them).
    However I don't think a load of posts proves anything.
    The Leica User Forum has seen a dramatic expansion in members and posts - but at the cost of endless repetition as successive waves of new visitors ask the same questions.
    By contrast, had a relatively small but energetic cast of characters - who really made the community in the early days and can do so again.
    The site owners can do something. In addition to the suggestions above, perhaps the more interesting, lively threads can get nine lives - compared to more run of the mill threads.
    I spent a lot of time on from 1999 onwards and found it a great place to brush up on photographic knowhow, research equipment and, above all, to share images and stories with other photographers.
  45. I too have not posted in a long time...apropos that this thread was here today.
    In years past I used to post daily. There were times when it was such a treat to log on, as many posts would be filled with photos and general chit-chat. Then some got ticked with the critiques...things changed and it seemed to become more of a place for people needing advice. As has been mentioned it seemed to lose its sense of 'community'.
    But I wonder if it isn't because the way the 'net is used has changed. The sense of community once found at places like this are now fulfilled by Facebook, Twitter, etc. I think many now use those places for their online socializing and places like have become places people come to get information, but not chat.
    I have a number of interests that vie with photography for my time. Target shooting and expensive espresso machines being the prime time taker uppers. What's telling is that I'm also a member of a number of forums dealing with these interests, and over the last 6 months they've all had posts like this one...asking what has happened and is the forum dying.
    I don't think places like this are dying...but they're definitely evolving.
  46. I find that almost any question I could possibly have about early Leica cameras can be easy answered by using the search function. Also, I've moved onto Nikon rangefinder, which are almost as interesting, albeit prehaps not as historically significant.
  47. Some of the things I really like about the Classic Forum, is that it's full of friendly conversational enthusiasts, and nobody ever replies "use the search feature".
    I'm sure every question that could be asked about an Argus camera has been answered, but as a group of enthusiasts, when one guy posts new pictures from an old new camera, or the same question asked years ago, the group responds with enthusiasm. Happy to relate their experiences and encourage the user.
    As long term members (or lurkers) of the forum, it's really up to us what we want this forum to be.

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