A suitable camera model for film beinnger

<p>Hi all,<br>

I am surprised by my friend's son that he want to learn B&W and darkroom skills. He needs a film SLR so I am thinking of getting a Canon FD mount camera. But I am not sure which camera model will be suitable for him. Can you suggest a model with lens that is suitable for beginners?<br>

Thank you,<br>

Kevin</p>

<p>Canon A-1 with 50mm 1.8 is a great starter kit. The F-1 is a great machine but the mercury battery and fragile meter is a bit of a deal-killer for a first camera.</p>

<p>Hi.</p>

<p>When my son wanted to start photography (He was 12) I gave him an A - 1, a Vivitar 50mm macro lens, the FD 35 - 105 and a Vivitar Series 1 70 - 210 mm.</p>

<p>Nowadays these lenses would be very cheap. Like the 70 - 210 would go for like 30 dollars. </p>

<p>I'd suggest a FD body and the FD35 - 105, beecause it's pleasant to zoom beween moderate wide - angle and moderate tele. </p>

<p>The big advantage of FD is that it's a "dead" system, which you cannot use on digital camera's. Prices are extremely low because of that. For instance, recently I bought a 100mm macro for € 25, and a 24mm F2.8 for € 20.</p>

<p>The build of FD lenses is extremely good, and optically they are great, so far I've got 33 of them and I haven't got a single lemon. I'm very grateful FD is a "dead" system, because it allows me to have the photographic system of my dreams for a very affordable price.</p>

<p>If you really want to provide the kid with absolute top gear, get a Canon F1 New with AE finder ((bout $ 250), or a Canon T90, (About $ 200) Maybe the T90 is a bit over the top for a kid, but my son far outdoes me in figuring out modern digital gear. But beware of overkill.</p>

<p>But an A1 is very good, and it has a 6V modern battery. It has a "Program" position where it figures out the light metering completely by its own. My son brought home 100% well exposed shots. It 's also got a very sensitive meter, up to 30 secs, so you can go out in low light. </p>

<p>So , to put it together:</p>

<p>A Canon A - 1 with FD 35 - 105 zoom.</p>

<p>And the A1 clooks very cool! </p>

<p>Dirk Dom.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I would recommend an FTb or FTbN. These cameras have depth of field preview, mirror lock-up, all mechanical shutter speeds and limited area light metering. I do not agree that an F-1 is a problem because of its battery or meter. I use MR-9 adapters in my F-1 bodies. As fas as the meters being fragile, I haven't found this to be the case. The Canon FTb/FTbN and F-1/F-1n meters seem more durable that the Nikon FTN and Nikkormat FT/FTN/FT2/FT3 meters. An A series camera can be nice if it's working but repairing an older mechanical model is easier.</p>

<p>To reinterate what Dirk said...the A-1 uses either the PX28 or 544 battery (6 volt) and NOT the 1.3 volt mercury battery. Either of these batteries are easily available either locally or online.<br>

Another excellent starter camera is the Canon FTb. It is meter-assisted manual setting exposure and therefore a better learning tool for the beginner. It did use the mercury battery (no longer available) but there are several alternative solutions to this problem and many can be found here on p-net. Just search under "mercury battery"</p>

<p>For a starter camera I'd go for an AE-1 or AE-1 Program which are simpler than the A-1 but offer all that you need. Lens-wise definitely get a 50 1.8, (it will probably come with the camera anyway) and a 35 & 135, which could be very cheap and will give a nice range of options.</p>

<p>Although I've owned an A-1, and presently own a T-90 which I dearly love, I think a beginner can very easily have an incredible learning experience and a lot of fun with an AE-1 or AE-1P. 6 months or a year down the road they can trade up if they desire. BTW, these cameras don't have a builtin dioptre correction, so if your friend's son wears glasses, help him/her get the proper diopter if they will be shooting without their eyeglasses. I personally found the viewfinder of my A-1 less than ideal (I do wear glasses) and guess that somewhat prejudiced me against this particular model, although I owned and used it for 10 years. Make sure and get a manual as well. You can get them online, usually free or for nominal cost at www.butkus.org. It will get the learning curve off to a good start.</p>

<p>Kevin, any of the FD bodies would be sufficient for his purposes. I learned on an AE-1, and then got an A-1. Now I use an F-1, F-1N, and T90. The great thing about the A-1 and T90 is that they have selectable exposure modes (M, Av, Tv, etc.). The T90 also has selectable metering modes. With the F-1N you can also select exposure and metering modes, but you need various accessories to do so. (I shoot in Av almost all the time, so I have an AE Finder on my F-1N, which enables me to see the shutter speed that the camera has selected in the viewfinder). The problem with the T90 (if it can really be called a problem) is that, apart from its lack of autofocus and evaluative metering, it's very much like a modern EOS body. So if your friend's son wants the look, feel, and function of a classic SLR, you might want steer clear the T90.</p>

<p>As for lenses, the FD 35-105/3.5 is a very fine zoom, but I would recommend that he start out with primes, and particularly with an FD 50/1.4 or FDn 50/1.4. Using a normal prime will compel him to think more about lighting, exposure, and compostion than about zooming in and out to get that "perfect shot." Once he's gotten a handle on the normal perspective of the 50mm, he could add a 24/2.8 at the wider end and an 85/1.8, 100/2.8, or 135/2.5 at the longer end. These slower versions (as opposed to the f/1.2 of the 85mm or the f/2's of the others) can be had dirt cheap these days.</p>

<p>I agree with Barry An AE-1P is a great starter camera. I start kids off with program mode just so they get the hang of it and get good results, then move on to more advanced concepts. A Canon 50mm f/1.8 and any wide-to-tele zoom would give any youngster plenty to work with. Almost as important as the camera is the willingness to spend some time together teaching some of the fundementals of the camera, composition and general picture making. Its important for people new to photography, kids especially, to have positive early experiences. Patience and kindness is needed. Learning a new skill is hard. An attitude of impatience or a thoughtless unkind word could put a novice off, not only Canon film cameras, but photography for life.</p>

<p>Either the AE-1 or the AE-1P (ie AE-1 Program). The Program model is the later one, and it has a number of distinct and very real advantages over its predecessor, including the ability to change focus screens. The meter display is also (arguably) superior to the AE-1 in that is an LED display and it lights up. That's better than the AE-1 in that in low light it can be very difficult or impossible to read the meter in the AE-1. The ability to change focus screens has become a huge advantage for me in that in low light, or with a longer lens or shooting macro, the center of the standard split screen focus screen becomes very dark. One can switch it for a screen that doesn't have the split screen focus for those uses.<br>

These cameras can be had online from camera stores complete with guarantees and with a 50mm 1.8 lens for around $75 or so. And so between the two, I would go with the AE-1P.<br>

I have found batteries for these cameras in drugstores with no problem. I've also bought them at Home Depot. Duracell and Energizer both makes them.</p>

<p>Regarding the<strong> A1</strong> - <em>you may love it ... you may hate it</em> . I have recently acquired one and absolutely hate its <em>handling/ergonomics</em> . While it has an easy-to-use 'fully automatic' program mode, the aperture priority and shutter priority modes involve undue simultaneous <em>fumbling </em> with the right <em>and </em> left hands to operate the necessary buttons and dials. This can really be an unnecessary distraction. Worse, it does <em>not </em> give "full metered manual" mode; that is, in purely manual mode the viewfinder display is what the camera <em>suggests </em> - you then have to set the lens aperture separately - <em>this is bonkers!</em></p>

<p>My point is this: the A1 (and AE1) has <em>quirks </em> which <em>may not</em> be desirable for someone wishing to learn about photography - I recommend handling one before buying.</p>

<p>I hesitate to suggest a Canon <strong>FTb/FTBn</strong> because of the battery issue, but they are <em>excellent </em> cameras. The <em>main </em> reason to recommend a Canon FD setup is for the <em>lenses </em> - they are <em>very </em> good and generally very cheap - but the choice of bodies is a conundrum. That said, I only know about the FTB/n, F1N and A1: there may be other Canons that are good choices.</p>

<p>For an all-round learner camera I would <em>very strongly</em> recommend a Nikon FM2n, though the lenses will invariably be noticeably <em>more </em> expensive. Personally I'd rather have a Pentax MX than any of the 'entry-level' Canons .... Why do I have Canons? Lenses, lenses, lenses. AC</p>

<p>I have started more than a few young photographers out on the T70 because is a simple camera to use and on auto pilot it really lowers the frustration level for a beginner.Numerous features beyond the A Series and a camera one can grow with as they advance.Dirt cheap and one of the last FD mount cameras sold before they changed over to the EOS auto focus system.</p>

<p>Thank you all of your suggestion!<br>

Regarding to A-1 - I do like A-1 because it have most manual function you need . With LED display allows me to read the metering at night clearly. However the only con is A-1's the mirror and shutter sounds loudly as it getting old and high usage.<br>

I prefer a camera that is 'ready to go', which means a camera that is always working even battery supply is not ready. Therefore, I prefer a mechanical camera for him. I notice that FD Lens has 2 version: black ended and silvery chrome ended. Can newer black end FD can mount on F-1 (old version) or FTb(/n)? And how to perform stop down AE when the newer black FD lens is mounted on these full manual mechanically operated camera? (One of the reasons that friend's son want to learn film photography is because of the joy of stop-AE metering)</p>

 

<p>The camera manuals give lots of info on how to perform stop down metering. Look at a copy on line and see if the nuances for the camera body of your choice is clear, if not come back with the specifics of what isn't clear to you.</p>

<p>Kevin, since you've now clarified that you prefer a mechanical camera for him, there's no question (at least in my mind) that you should get him an either an original or later model F-1 (F-1 or F-1n). They are fully mechanical (except for their meters), and an absolute joy to use. (I consider all three F-1's to be works of engineering art). I prefer the F-1n over the F-1 because of it's shorter film advance winding stroke and it's higher maximum ISO (3200 vs. 2000), but either body is fabulous. With occassional maintenance, the F-1 will never wear out.</p>

<p>You might want to visit this page of the Canon Camera Museum to peruse the specifications of the three F-1 bodies: <a href="http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/series_f.html?lang=us">http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/series_f.html?lang=us</a>.</p>

<p>Mark, <br>

Thank you for your kind suggestion. But will that be too much for a film beginner to use a professional camera? I like F-1 too, but I think he can get this camera later. I think a less expensive with similar function one, FTb will be more suitable.</p>

<p>Stephen,<br>

After I took a quick look in the manuals, I finally understand how stop-down AE is performed in Canon F series cameras. However, I am still not sure which lens is suitable for him. should I simply give him a standard 50mm f/1.8 lens? </p>

<p>Before I decided to choose Fd, I did think of Nikon. The nikon is rather expensive, especially the lenses. Pentex is fine but the used lens es are also quite expensive. Cannon Fd is the most (I suppose...) complete and cheap lens series that modern SLR can have. <br>

BTW,<br>

what is the main difference between FTb and FTBn? </p>

 

<p>Hi again. The chrome nose lenses and the more modern black bayonet lenses are identical in their working on the camera. Thet just attach differently. Both chrome nose and black bayonet lenses work on any FD body.</p>

<p>The difference between the FTb - N and old FTb is cosmetic - like the advance lever in the older FTb is fully metal. The FTB - N also has a quick load mechanism which makes putting in the film very easy.</p>

<p>When I started photography, (I was 18) I had an FTB - N and a 50mm F 1.8. Since I was interested in macro, I bought a set of diopter lenses. I felt completely happy with this set. Later I added a 100mm macro.</p>

<p>If you can solve the mercury battery issue, an FTb is a fine camera. It has semi - spot metering (18 % of the image, and its metering is very intuitive and forces you to learn about shutter time and diaphragm.</p>

<p>Check the metering against a camera you're certain it's good, or a correct light meter. My FTb 's meter is 2 stops off, now. I'm getting a CLA for it.</p>

<p>As others have said, FD primes which aren't very fast (F 2.8) can be bought extremely cheap: I paid $ 25 for a 24mm F 2.8.</p>

<p>On the other hand, it's fun to have an automatic camera like the AE - 1. Your choice.</p>

<p>Bye, Dirk.</p>

<p>The FTbN was an updated version of the FTb introduced in 1971. Both have the quick-load feature. The FTbN, introduced in 1973, displays the shutter speed in the viewfinder. The most obvious external differences are the plastic tip on the film wind lever, a slimmer black stop-down lever and a black spring loaded cover over the PC socket. As the newer version, it might be easier to find an FTbN in good working condition, though how the camera was used and/or abused over 30+ years will be the key.</p>

<p>If you can do without the mirror lock-up feature and the 1/1000 second shutter speed, the Canon TX or TLb are stripped down versions of the FTb. The TX in particular is relatively common and cheap.</p>

<p>If your friend's son gets the film camera bug, an F-1 might be the next big step.</p>

<p>I am surprised no one has mentioned the EF, I believe it can be used with or without batteries, and from what I understand it has built in voltage regulator so that modern 1.5v batteries can be substituted for the 1.3v mercury cells. <a href="http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1966-1975/1973_ef.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=f">http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1966-1975/1973_ef.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=f</a></p>

<p>B&W darkroom is just so much nicer in medium format. Also the rolls are shorter, providing faster feedback. Did you think about a neat Rolleicord TLR? The V, Va and Vb modells are the best.</p>

<p>Joachim, <br>

I agree with you too. He might need a medium format to study in the future. But fore that, I think he should have more practice first (He is still using a non-SLR digital camera). The equipment he is having now is mainly 'donated' by me and his father, and he still need a 'sponsor' to get him an enlarger. Medium format enlarger is not cheap so that I think it will be much better to have 135 format first.<br>

Curtis<a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=4248432">,</a><br>

It seems I have skipped EF. EF is nice alternative choice but I think it is much better to have a complete mechanical camera (to fulfill his childhood dream). I think most 1.5V can replace 1.3V mercury's job. My Gossen Luna pro can give me correct exposure reading when 1.5V batteries installed. I think the old electronic circuit might need some more power to boost up.</p>

<p>Gordon,<br>

Thank you for your information of the version differences. I did not find any Tx or TLb in the local market but did find some from the Web. I don't want to disappoint him and not to be the copy of my past. I hope he could have a semi-professional camera to use.<br>

Dirk,<br>

Thank you for your information. I enjoy marco-photography too. I started from 15 or something, using father's Canonet. It wasn't a pro-camera but I still very enjoy using it. Then I get the A-1 when I come out to work. I choose A-1 since it has more function than AE-1 program and sale in the shop. <br>

<br /><br>

<br /><br>

<br /></p>

<p>AE-1 PROGRAM. I find this camera best for a beginner as it offers a "Program" mode that sets the exposure automatically. Then once you get a good understanding of the camera and the films you use you can set the exposure manually and not use the "Program" mode.</p>

 

I have had 3 Canon A1 cameras, my son still has one of them.

An Olympus OM-G would be another good choice.

<p>This whole battery issue about the Canon FTb (and FT-QL, TL-QL, TLb, TX---good basic camera bodies all) has been shown to be overblown. Dirt cheap Type 675 hearing aid batteries work fine. They're a little smaller in diameter than the old mercury batteries, but you can install one easily. Point the camera end up, twist the battery lid off, place and center the battery inside, and twist the lid back on. The battery does stay put. Some people use O-Rings, too, but that is unnecessary. When the battery dies, the meter needle doesn't budge, so you put in a new battery from your stash. <br>

Many stores have the national brands. Drug stores like CVS have their own house brands, too.<br>

These batteries come with a plastic tab stuck on. You remove it just before installing the battery. Once the tab is off, battery service life can last up to a few months, depending on usage.<br>

As for what the beginner should look for in a film SLR camera, I'd say simplicity and reliability, plus a bright, snappy viewfinder for focusing. Automatic features may be a crutch the beginner should do without until he is proficient.</p>