3200 Vs 5100

Never owned a Digital SLR before.......

Auto Focus and advanced meterings are probably the least important features to me.

Assuming i will be in Manual Mode all the time.....Is the D5100 a "Better" camera than the D3200.?

Can they be used as a Manual Focus Camera.?

Other than the fact that it does not use film, i was hoping to simply treat the camera as a Nikon F2 with a Digital Sensor (if possible).

Thank You

You certainly can use it in completely manual mode. Don't expect it like-for-like with film, as there is a cpu in the way at every step. If you treat it as a new kind of film in the camera, it will be easier to adapt.

 

For me, it takes me an instant to take a good image on film, and get results I expect. I have to work a bit harder with a 'D' camera. I tend to use the digital for family gatherings and vacations. Art is always on film.

.Is the D5100 a "Better" camera than the D3200.?

I don't know, but there are a number of handson comparisons on YouTube. (See link.)

 

Why use manual mode all the time when today's camera provides advanced features that are included in the price paid? (This is something I will never understand. ;) )

Reading the specification I can't see the difference between the 2 cameras except that being the newer camera the D3200 has 24MP instead of 16MP in the D5100. They can be used as manual focus camera but it may be difficult to focus manually with these cameras as compared to the F2. If you're the type of people who rely on the split image to focus manually then there is no such thing with either the DSLR mentioned. Focusing on the ground glass would still be more difficult as compared to the F2 and the pentamirror viewfinder instead of pentaprism finder makes it worse. If you use MF lenses the meter won't work. So you need lenses with CPU and basically these are AF lenses for these cameras to provide metering. Also the sensors in these cameras are smaller than the 35mm film so the lenses won't work the same way as on the F2.

Denny, why not just use an F2?

Why use manual mode all the time when today's camera provides advanced features that are included in the price paid?

 

The human brain is much more powerful than any cpu in a digital camera. When sufficiently skilled, why wouldn't you?

As a former F2 user

• AF is a blessing, in most cases, as I can shoot sports/action much faster than I ever could. And as I get older, that helps to counter the aging issue.
  
• As BeBu said, manually focusing on a DSLR is more difficult than on a SLR. It is the focusing screen on the DSLR that is the problem. Not that it can't be done, but it is not as easy as on a SLR.
   
  
• I get 'motor drive' without the bulk and weight.
  
• Neither the D3xxx nor D5xxx is easy and quick to adjust shutter speed and aperture. The reason is that both functions share the same control wheel, so it will take practice to work the switch to flip functions and do it blind. The D7xxx series has 2 control wheels, front for aperture, rear for shutter speed.
  
• I think the D5xxx uses a brighter pentaprism, vs the pentamirror of the D3xxx. But the pentamirror makes for a slightly lighter camera.
  
• As was mentioned, you have to manually meter your exposure when using older lenses on either camera.
  
• You NEED to consult the compatibility tables to determine which older lenses will work on the D3200/5100, and what the limitations are. Personally, this is a real bother with the various Nikon lenses and bodies. As even with the DSLRs, the AF-P lenses won't work on the older DSLRs.
  

The human brain is much more powerful than any cpu in a digital camera. When sufficiently skilled, why wouldn't you?

The answer is simple: My brain can multiply and divide - but a calculator is faster. I can handwrite a letter, but MS Word can be efficient and beautiful. That said, there are times when it makes sense to calculate manually and to write a letter with ink and paper. But that is the exception when so many conveniences are available. Similarly, there are times when manual focus and manual exposure make sense. - But doing this all the time? Then why pay hundreds and thousands for the ever greater camera features with "fast focusing" and accurate exposure, etc.?

 

peterbcarter: Also, re: "The human brain is much more powerful than any cpu in a digital camera". It is not necessarily true. My camera works and reacts much much faster than my brain can ever react to a flying bird.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Mary Doo

I bought a D3200 to use as a very small camera for street shooting. Didn't like it, and went to a D5300. The reason was the D3200 does not have a histogram, but the D5300 does.

 

 

Kent in SD

I don't know, but there are a number of handson comparisons on YouTube. (See link.)

 

Why use manual mode all the time when today's camera provides advanced features that are included in the price paid? (This is something I will never understand. ;) )

Right.....Sorry.

This will all seem a bit odd.

I am taking a Photo Class next year, and the class is "Beginning Digital". I have no real desire to use a digital camera, but the course requires it naturally. It will Introduce/Teach me the basics of using a scanner (for film) and the basics of Lightroom/Photoshop and making Curves which i need to make Digital Negs so i can learn to make P/P prints form my film negatives.....Etc etc etc

The bottom line is, i need a Digital SLR to take this class. I am not knocking "Digital" photography, i do not think film is "better".....but i need to take this basic Digital Photography class to learn the things i need to know to progress with my Black & White film skills.

So this is all kind of a "back door" thing... not the normal reasons that everybody else will be in this class. I need to learn some digital stuff, so i need to take the "Beginner" digital class.....not to learn about "Photography", but to learn the computer skills i need for going further with my darkroom training.......if you know what i mean.?

Thanks (everybody) that replied.

I can understand how the modern day AF lens might not be the best choice for "Manual Photography".....i was simply planning on using my F Mount lens, which is why i was looking at Nikon. The fact that they will not meter is not an issue.

Thanks Again :)

Hi Denny. I'll second the concern that I think you'll find manual focus difficult on either a D5100 or D3200:

• They're both using a pentamirror (which is cheap and light) in place of a pentaprism like the F2. This isn't specifically a dSLR thing - the N75 did the same; more expensive digital bodies have a glass prism like the F2.
  
• They're both using a smaller-than-film "DX" sensor, again for cost and lightness. The sensor captures less light than a full film frame, and this has a corresponding effect on the finder, which will be smaller and dimmer. (A more expensive "FX" dSLR avoids this.)
  
• The digital sensor captures fine detail with more acuity than film, and it's easy to zoom in on the results; this means you'll see every slight miss in focus.
  
• The focus screens of both cameras are optimised for brightness with slower zoom lenses, so won't get the full accuracy of focal plane or extra brightness from using a fast prime.
  

However, all is not lost. Both cameras have a "digital rangefinder" that will tell you whether you're acceptably in focus at a focus point when using manual focus. Both offer live view, which means you can look at a zoomed image on the LCD on the camera, like using a loupe on a large format back.

 

High end autofocus systems give you more flexibility about positioning the focal point, and track moving subjects more effectively. This shouldn't matter to you, so I agree that you can ignore the quality of the AF system in your choice, and either of these bodies should do you fine.

 

The lack of meter with non-digital lenses is likely to be a little painful, but live view and the ability to view the image you've just taken in the field make it something I'd not worry about.

 

I'm assuming you're aware that the smaller "crop" sensor of these cameras means they don't capture the edges of the film frame - much like a teleconverter. So a 50mm lens on one of these will have the field of view that a 75mm lens would on the F2. Worth bearing in mind if you plan to use it with wide-angle film camera lenses - they'll be 1.5x less wide.

 

One thing I wouldn't worry about is the single dial if you're looking at using older lenses: you'll be able to use the aperture ring on the lens like you do with an F2, so the dSLRs can use the rear dial solely for shutter speed.

 

In your position, I'd suggest:

• By all means use one of these with your existing lenses, but I think you'll find the experience more frustrating than you'd hope. You might be happy to live with that, I just think you'll be getting a negative impression of what these cameras can do.
  
• Both these cameras normally come with a small "kit lens" - typically an 18-55mm zoom (that's the field of view of a 27-82mm zoom on film). It's not amazing quality and it's certainly not fast (f/5.6 at the long end), but it'll autofocus and meter. It might be worth ensuring that you get a lens like this with the camera just as a less frustrating option, even if you want to use older glass as well. Manual focus with this lens will be a little more painful because of the aperture and the throw is optimised for autofocus, but it's possible. You still have manual exposure control if you want it.
  
• For more money, a cheap D700 will give you a much better (FX, pentaprism) viewfinder, not have the "crop" sensor, and meter with AI lenses. It has an older (and arguably worse) sensor than either the D3200 or D5100, but if you find a cheap one (or are expecting to sell after the course) you may prefer it. It won't mount pre-AI lenses though, so if all yours are unmodified pre-AI then that's a problem. This is probably your cheapest (used) option for a full-frame Nikon with a finder close to what you're used to (plus a lot of digital status information). Any full-frame "FX" will do the same, but others are likely to cost more. I can vouch for using manual lenses on a D700, for what it's worth.
  
• The Df handles by far nearest to an F2 of all Nikon's dSLRs, including compatibility with pre-AI lenses and a relatively good manual focus screen, but it's a lot of money for your stated use.
  

Having said all that... If you just want to progress scanning and post-processing, are you sure this is the course for you? The post-processing will apply to either medium, but I'm worried that there may be a focus on using the dSLR. I could just be paranoid - it may be the teacher just wants you to be able to go and get a specific shot to process with an instant turnaround, in which case film is a problem. (Otherwise, to be clear, I completely support your choice of medium - I shoot both, although digital is certainly more convenient for me.)

 

Good luck, and I hope that input helps more than it confuses.

Sorry, I didn't really answer the "which is better" question. The D5x00 series are one step up from the D3x00 series - but the D3200 is a generation newer than the D5100, which balances things out a bit. (Later D5x00 models also get a 24MP sensor and get better autofocus than the D3x00 range, for example.)

 

Advantages for the D5100:

• 14-bit raw (a little more highlight/shadow flexibility in post processing at the lowest ISO setting, which you might care about for your course). Although I believe it's still "lossily" compressed, so it's not quite the truly unadulterated sensor data you'd get from a more expensive body.
  
• A flip-out screen. Which is handy for macro and over-the-head shots, and not relevant when shooting using the optical viewfinder.
  

Advantages for the D3200:

• More pixels (slightly more detailed photos that you can blow up larger).
  
• Slightly lighter.
  

But I think you're in the realm of "either will be fine", and the differences don't affect the things you need to get a "more F2-like experience", which cost more. (Although if it's just for the course, you could auction a higher-end camera off again afterwards, at what might be a minimal loss.)

Well said.....Thank You

Definitely NOT fighting Digital/AF just for the sake of it. I WILL learn how all that works.

Just commenting that i am not buying one of these as your "Typical" photographer. I HAVE to own one for the class.

If i need a color picture of something, i use my wife's Cell Phone.

I am registered Pass/Fail ...do not care if i "Fail"...no pressure for me at all. My parents are both dead. They will not be looking at my report card. :)

i am simply in the class to facilitate what i do with Film, Curves/ Digital Negs, P/P Printing, Scanning, etc etc.

I still have MILES to go with B&W Film in The Darkroom...but if i happen to learn how to shoot digital color and how to look at a Histogram...All The Better :)

You guys gave me LOTS of awesome info and i have learned a lot.

Thanks Again

the D3200 does not have a histogram, but the D5300 does.

Seems the key comment here. - If you intend to use old glass on a DSLR that doesn't provide metering with it a histogram feature seems ++important to have to nail your exposures by trial & error. - Sunny 16 and torturing the exposure latitude of RAW files in post processing most likely won't get you as far as B&W film might.

 

Like everybody else I agree upon: Manually focusing any AF SLR without aids on the screen is hard compared to a trusty film beater. - The smaller screens and dim pentamirrors of entry level DSLRs don't make it easier.

If you are unlikely to get into digital (with your heart), why bother about such almost contemporary cameras?

Scoop up a D70 or D200 for less money. Both should cut the cake of a class and provide the occasionally handy direct digital capture for communications support later. - Of course the later bodies might be handier to digitize your negs with a macro lens.

IDK if single dial operation of the manual mode is important for your use case. Maybe you can set the dial to shutter speed and use your aperture rings? - Have you read up if the DSLRs will take your lenses? AFAIK there were pre-AI F2s and lenses have to get AIed for some reason? - No clue what the most suitable Dremel hack to get obstacles out of the way might be.

In doubt you'll have less trouble going mirrorless for heritage glass. Chinese lens adapters are in the $20 range and early NEX should be cheap by now.

More great info.....Wow, OK..!!!

Then you know what.?.....forget about most all the garbage i have said previous.

I will simply buy SOME Digital SLR, use whatever F'ing 20-80 Zoom comes with it, and forget about trying to use my 35, 50, 85mm Nikon lens (or any other brand) from circa 1975...and be Happy With That.

I will just take the class like a normal person, learn Something about the new technology, and adapt from that, what i can, to help with what I DO with film in the darkroom.

Problem solved, much easier.

You guys are Awesome.....I have never owned a "Digital Camera", and i think i have read too much (and believed too much) about how "easy" it is to adapt Old Glass to new cameras, and what a Great Idea/Experience that is.

You guys have completely changed my Mind-Set and probably saved me a lot of grief.

Sorry about all this. Thought i was keeping things simple, but i was probably doing the opposite.:oops:

My Apologies

Just to be clear, as far as I can tell from the reference manuals, the D3200 and D5100 have identical histogram information (playback only). Newer models might differ and offer a histogram in live view.

 

I'm not sure I'd call either the D5100 or D3200 "contemporary", although they do post-date the introduction of sensors with a lot of dynamic range in the D7000 generation. For post-processing is pick one of these over a D70 or D200, although I agree that the D200's handling has advantages.

 

If using a non-digital lens on either the D5100 or D3200, you WILL have to use the aperture ring to control aperture. In fact, that's true of any Nikon DSLR.

 

On old dSLRs (possibly including the D70) a pre-AI lens might crush the EE indexing switch. These lenses also won't (mostly) mount on any higher end dSLR with an AI follower tab, excluding the Df, which can flip its tab out of the way. However, the D3200 and D5100's EE switch is designed to push into the body rather than move sideways (I believe), and so should be fine with almost any pre-AI lens that doesn't require mirror lock up. And obviously they'll be fine with AI lenses as well.

 

Mirrorless is also an option, but probably not cheaper, and certainly not more F2-like!

Sorry, crossed over, Denny!

 

I think that's a good plan - bearing in mind that the kit zoom you're looking at is probably an 18-55mm or similar (and you have to multiply the focal length by 1.5 to tell you what that range looks like on your F2 because of the sensor crop, unless you buy an FX camera). Just mentioning it so you don't get a film-vintage 28-80 or similar, and find it's not as wide as you want.

 

More money will get you a digital body that's nicer to use (which is why they cost more), so if you find you're frustrated with the experience, bear in mind that a D7x00 series, a D300 (although ancient sensor) or anything FX will be nicer. But since you're not committing to digital and not considering it your main goal for now, better you start cheap.

 

And just to be clear, Jochen is right that you can save more by getting something like a D70 or D40, which is worth considering if it's effectively disposable to you. Just bear in mind that the responsiveness of the camera (how long it takes to play back an image, for example), the ergonomics (tiny LCD screens!) and the latitude you have for processing the results have all improved with technology generations. I think you're wise to consider the D3200 and D5100 as a starting point unless you're really constrained for cash.

 

Good luck with whatever you get, and I hope you enjoy the experience - and find it complements your film shooting!

Denny, I own the d3200. I bought it used while I was in New York in 2014 and keep it in my truck, use it as a walk around at the beach frequently and have started shooting black and white with it. I have other better digital cameras but can comfortably say that the image quality of the d3200 is very good and better than the professional Nikon d2x that I have owned for 13 years and still shoot underwater. The d3200 is a much slower camera than higher end Nikons but I don't think that you will be missing much. If you want speed you have to pay, but that is the way it has always been. As well the affordable Nikon dx kit lenses with internal motors are very good and stopped to f8 they are quite good. If you have never shot digital then you are in for a treat and even shooting your fully manual lenses that require you to use an aperture ring and manually focus, I know that sounds lame to a film shooter with manual glass, you will find yourself more in the moment because you can review your work immediately and make adjustments using "blinkies" or the histograms for exposure and the playback zoom feature while reviewing the image to check for critical focus. The transition between film and digital was not difficult for me and I don't think you will have any problems with it. Good hunting. Edited June 9, 2018 by 2Oceans

I have a D3200. It makes very good images, and the basic quality is very good.

 

Contrary to statements above, it does have a histogram, which is among the choices available in replay. It has all the usual options for image display, including an overview with basic EXIF and histogram, a three page EXIF only display, a bare image, an RGB histogram set, a default image with some info, and a highlight ("blinkies") image. You can select which images are available in the menu, and then toggle through them with the up/down arrows on the rear control. You can also zoom into a displayed image.

 

It's fine as a manual camera, but any one of the low-end DX cameras will be hard to focus manually, because the viewfinder image is rather small and not terribly bright. On mine, for help in manual focusing, I have a DK-21M magnifier, which makes the image much easier to focus but reduces eyepoint and makes it difficult to see the whole frame at once. One can get used to that. For macro and vital manual work, you can also use the Live View, which zooms to quite a decent level for fine focusing.

 

In both the cameras mentioned, there is only one rotating wheel control, so manual exposure requires that you use the same wheel for both aperture and shutter, The wheel plus the +/- compensating button operates aperture, and because of this, there is no exposure compensation available in manual mode. This, in turn, means that if you use manual mode with an AF lens, you must turn off Auto ISO in order to disobey the camera's meter.

 

The D3200's image quality is less than stellar at higher ISO, and although it can still be used for many things even in poor light, the loss of edge definition at higher ISO makes it less than great for wildlife in dim places. It's quite OK in good light if you don't crop, but if you're shooting monkeys and sloths in the jungle, things get pretty dirty when you crop in.

 

If you have a collection of older manual lenses, none will meter at all on any D5x00 or D3x00 camera, but they will fit and operate, and pre-AI lenses will work without conversion. I have used many such lenses, and once you're used to reading the histogram, it's pretty easy. Both these cameras will function with the newer E-aperture lenses, but neither will function at all with the latest P lenses. They will not focus at all. Most AF lenses are a nuisance to focus manually owing to their short focus throw.

 

I now use a D7100, which is a good deal better in many respects, but have taken many pictures with the D3200, all over the world, and found it quite reasonable, as well as convenient for traveling. It works fine manually, but its automatic features are quite competent. It lacks many features compared to other digital cameras, but by comparison with any film camera it's laden with new features. When I first switched from film to digital, aside from the obvious convenience of immediately seeing your results, the feature that really impressed me was the ability to change ISO with a button!

 

If you are new to this sort of camera, make sure you get the full manual, which is not the printed one included. Along with getting used to where everything is, make sure you know what features are enabled by default. On the D3200, some things are on when you get it, which you may want to turn off, such as D-lighting, Auto ISO, and so forth.

 

If your primary expectation is to focus manually, I'd seriously consider skipping the DX format altogether, and looking for something in full frame. If you like DX, you might look at D7x00 family cameras, which have some advantages, especially for manual shooters. For one thing, you have two wheels with which to control manual exposure, and for another a much better viewfinder. They will also meter with manual lenses.

At the risk of repeating myself.......More Useful Info. :)

Thank You All

I Appreciate It

I always say that I wouldn't recommend a camera for anyone because other people are not me. However, I feel if the OP want to go for used I think a D700 would be a good choice. At 12MP the image quality would be at least equal to that of the F2 regardless what kind of film he use. Manual focus would be relatively close to the F2 using only the ground glass. Perhaps some third party has split image focusing screen for the D700 if the OP needs it. Exposure controls while via command dials but the aperture can be set via the aperture ring with lenses that have it. The framing rate is higher than the F2 with the MD-2 motor drive. It is compatible to most Nikon F mount lenses except the pre AI. At about $500 or so used I think it would be a good F2 replacement.

The main reason I recommend a full frame camera because when the OP use the same lens from the F2 on the D700 it would give the same view.

Just to clarify some apparently conflicting information: the D3200 and D5100 have histogram information during image review (when you look at a photo after you've shot it). Some higher-end bodies can show you a histogram while you compose the image in live view (using the LCD on the back instead of the viewfinder), which can help with exposure, but I don't believe it's an option for the D5100 or D3200 - or, I believe, the D5300 mentioned.

 

If you're willing to spend extra, I absolutely agree that the D7x00 series or D700 will be a better experience, with the proviso that any old lenses you wish to attach will have to have "AI" in the name or they won't physically mount (though you can convert older lenses). The D700 is pretty much an F100 with ten years of technology on top; the D7x00 range is newer and smaller, but slightly more aimed at the consumer level (and has the smaller sensor and viewfinder). They're good choices - but it sounded as though you were after the bare minimum at this point, so it would be a change of plan!

 

Perhaps have a look through the viewfinder of the more common cheaper bodies in a department/electronics store (there's not much difference between the latest versions in the D5x00 and D3x00 range and the models we're discussing when it comes to the finder) and see whether you find it acceptable?

 

Best of luck, again!

This has been an eye opener. Just the info regarding When and How the histogram appears has been enlightening.

Thanks Again

 

And once again, i should have known better. Just because a circa 2015 camera CAN USE a lens from 1975 does not mean it will be a great experience.

To put this all into perspective. My most "advanced" cameras were (probably) the Canon A-1 and Nikon F3.....and i have recently sold both of those.

So my knowledge of Modern Camera Technology is lacking by a few decades. :)

Denny: don't let is drown you in details (I'm pedantic on these threads just in case someone comes a hunting via Google in a few years). A dSLR is still a box with a lens on the front and a shutter at the back. You can change the ISO on the fly, which tricky on most film cameras, but the basics are the same - it's just a matter of learning where the controls went. Think of it as a treasure hunt. :-)

 

Now, if I just had a clear night, I'd be getting my 200mm f/4 from about 1980 out, and using it to shoot stars on my D850. (The 52mm filter thread is the biggest nebula filter I could buy!)

I will just take the class like a normal person, learn Something about the new technology, and adapt from that, what i can, to help with what I DO with film in the darkroom.

Problem solved, much easier

Great. This makes more sense. ;) Enjoy your class!