Richard Avedon

While I greatly admire (and am envious of) the photographs in Avedon's The American West I take issue with the title. In my opinion it is not all that representative of the American west, but rather more representative of a class or group or kind of people. I'm not sure how to characterize this group, so I struggle with the adjective to use, but it seems to me that such sorts could be found anywhere. By 'anywhere' I mean most anywhere on the planet really. Conversely in the American west one can find all sorts of other types to photograph, again types that can be found anywhere.

On a separate note, and perhaps meriting it's own thread in the Philosophy Forum is a great statement Avedon made in the intro to a gallery show of his American West:

"There is no such thing as inaccuracy in a photograph. All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth."

Note that Avedon made this before PhotoShop and digital editing. We should all have this as our mantra.

I've probably missed quite a lot, but from my limited perspective it seems to me that few visionaries are met with applause at the time of their creations.

I don’t know that this is the rule so much as the mystique of the tragic exception.

While I greatly admire (and am envious of) the photographs in Avedon's The American West I take issue with the title.

Some folks on PN recently took issue with Frank’s The Americans for similar reasons. I take the titles The American West and The Americans to be more factual than broadly descriptive. Frank’s photos were photos of Americans, not claiming to be representative of all walks of American life. Avedon’s photos were of people who lived in The American West, not claiming to be representative of the American west per se. While I think each does justice to its title, I don’t think either attempts to portray an all-encompassing portrait of a multi-faceted society within the place named in the title. The essence of each is to comment on a cultural milieu within the surrounds of its title. The ability to zero in on such cultural humanism, icons, and symbols is at the core of each series. A clear and distinct perspective, a strong comment on culture and even class, rather than a more generalized view, seems to me to elevate each series. While Avedon’s portraits leave me a bit cold due to their unrelenting similarity of expressions, comportment, and the removal of environmental cues, the work seen live and in-person is still powerful enough to earn my respect and move me for its commitment and boldness.

While I greatly admire (and am envious of) the photographs in Avedon's The American West I take issue with the title. In my opinion it is not all that representative of the American west, but rather more representative of a class or group or kind of people. I'm not sure how to characterize this group, so I struggle with the adjective to use, but it seems to me that such sorts could be found anywhere. By 'anywhere' I mean most anywhere on the planet really. Conversely in the American west one can find all sorts of other types to photograph, again types that can be found anywhere.

 

On a separate note, and perhaps meriting it's own thread in the Philosophy Forum is a great statement Avedon made in the intro to a gallery show of his American West:

"There is no such thing as inaccuracy in a photograph. All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth."

Note that Avedon made this before PhotoShop and digital editing. We should all have this as our mantra.

That it doesn't square with your notion of the American West hardly disqualifies Avedon's perception. That's it's not some ideal/typical portrayal seems a problem for you.

The full title ... In the American West...

That's it's not some ideal/typical portrayal seems a problem for you.

That Avedon's book is not some ideal/typical portrayal not a problem for me at all. My only 'issue' (as I called it, not a problem either) was with the title and as samstevens and inoneeye corrected me on the title, it being "In the American West" I no longer even have an 'issue' with the title. As I said I greatly admire the photographs. If you visit my website and my "environmental portraits" gallery here you will see why I admire Avedon's work, why I am jealous and if you look at the locations you'll see why I took issue with an assumed title of The American West.

That Avedon's book is not some ideal/typical portrayal not a problem for me at all. My only 'issue' (as I called it, not a problem either) was with the title and as samstevens and inoneeye corrected me on the title, it being "In the American West" I no longer even have an 'issue' with the title. As I said I greatly admire the photographs. If you visit my website and my "environmental portraits" gallery here you will see why I admire Avedon's work, why I am jealous and if you look at the locations you'll see why I took issue with an assumed title of The American West.

Fair enough. Sounds like we were talking past each other. Cheers

If you visit my website and my "environmental portraits" gallery here you will see why I admire Avedon's work,

nice collection.

@movingfinger nice photos there.

As an aside, wouldn't it be fun to randomly drive around with an entire team to assist you in photographing arbitrary subjects you've plucked from "the wild"?

That said, I sort of understand why there's little descriptive text accompanying each subject/photo, but for my own preferences, the back stories would be as fascinating as the subjects themselves. The adendum/book I referenced earlier, Laura Wilson's Avedon At Work In The American West does go into some of this but not necessarily for each subject. Also another really interesting point that came to light in Ms Wilson's book, IF I recall it correctly- was the sheer number of photos shot for this series. Mr Avedon pared down the selection to what we know as the remaining (comparative) few destroyed all the other photos and negatives.

As stated I'm recalling from memory but may have this wrong. All in all, though- both Mr Avedon's & Ms Wilson's books are interesting, each in their own right.

Here are two Avedon quotes I love, for their insights into photography, for their insights into Avedon's photography, and for their insights into a lot of things ...

Camera lies all the time. It’s all it does is lie, because when you choose this moment instead of this moment, when you… the moment you’ve made a choice, you’re lying about something larger. ‘Lying’ is an ugly word. I don’t mean lying. But any artist picks and chooses what they want to paint or write about or say. Photographers are the same.

 

My photographs don’t go below the surface. They don’t go below anything. They’re readings of the surface. I have great faith in surfaces. A good one is full of clues.

 

—Richard Avedon

I think Avedon would recognize the difference between and understand the significance of both the photos and the back stories.

The back stories? I'm not sure I could handle that. Anyway, the "back stories" are etched on the subject's faces.

Usually the "back stories", who and what someone is, can not be reduced to what you can imagine looking at someone's face. There is far more depth to the personality of even the most boring people than can be shown by something simple as a photograph.

A photo even can't begin to convey how someone ports him or herself, the manner of speech, etc., which too are only poor indicators of personalities.

Photos, portraits, Arthur, are not very good at telling "back stories".

I’ll stick with Avedon, who knew intimately that the surface of a face gives clues, as he said, and not a full back story.

A book cover is usually designed by someone other than the author. A facial expression comes from the person being photographed. While a single facial expression doesn’t tell a full factual story, it may reveal something significant and even significant about that person at a moment in time. A photographer of people has much to consider and work with.

I’ll stick with Avedon, who knew intimately that the surface of a face gives clues, as he said, and not a full back story.

 

A book cover is usually designed by someone other than the author. A facial expression comes from the person being photographed. While a single facial expression doesn’t tell a full factual story, it may reveal something significant and even significant about that person at a moment in time. A photographer of people has much to consider and work with.

A story about Avedon and the horrid Duke and Duchess of Windsor:

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor: We Are Not Amused

A story about Avedon and the horrid Duke and Duchess of Windsor:

 

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor: We Are Not Amused

Thanks. Great. It goes well with my being in the midst of this season of the The Crown! :)

Yes. A photographer can manipulate any situation and create something he wants to create. Alternatively or simultaneously, a photographer can draw out a subject in the hopes of getting something authentic from them. A photographer and subject can work together and come up with something that may say a bit about both of them. There are endless permutations.

Sometimes, we look at a photo and have a real sense of what we're seeing. It can feel almost unmistakable. But it still could be mistaken. A back story can give insights into just what we're seeing, if we want to go beyond our ephemeral experience of the photo itself or we want to confirm the "accuracy" of our interpretation.

This excites and intrigues me when looking at and taking pictures of people. There's often a mystique, some doubt, some wonder. What's "real"? What's created? What does it matter? With all that, regardless of whether the emotion is coming from a genuine moment of the subject, a manipulated moment of the subject, a penetrating view by the photographer, or simply a lucky stroke, what I feel when looking and shooting is real enough to me and worth it.

Back Story: I thought a picture was worth 1000 words.

Old school! :)

I read somewhere years ago that the phrase " a picture is worth 1000 words" was originally,

"A word is worth a thousand pictures."

Hmm... seems right to me...

say "banana" and I think of

thousands of them...

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