B&W development chemicals

Hi all

 

I've just made the switch from digital slr to B&W film! Well, not really, but I'm keen to pursue B&W

photography in both 35mm and 6x7 MF, doing my own processing, starting with developing. I'm shooting

both Ilford HP5 and FP4 for the moment. I've investigated developer and fixer chemicals from Ilord, Kodak

and originally Agfa.

 

What I'm looking for is some input as to which chemicals I should use that would give me good results but

would also be economical to use (low purchase price, good shelf life etc). I would be processing

spasmodically, perhaps every 4-6 weeks.

 

For example, it would seem Ilord ID-11 developer has a long shelf life but has to be mixed totally when

used and once mixed has a low shelf life.

 

I would appreciate any recommendations for both developer and fixer.

 

BTW, are there any chemicals that can be used both for film and paper?

 

Cheers, Bob

I don't know about ID 11, but for HP5, HC 110 works very well, it's cheap, has a long shelf life, and is easy to use. Really, it'll be hard to beat it. I also heard about D76, but I never used it. For slow film, Rodinal is also great. Paper and films need different developers, but the fixer and the stop bath are the same.

The long shelf life liquid developers are Ilford Ilfotec DD-X, Kodak HC-110, and Rodinal.

 

DD-X is an excellent speed-enhancing developer, open bottle lasts easily a year. But it's relatively pricey.

 

HC-110 is a very general purpose developer. Trick is to mix one roll's worth directly from the syrup in the bottle, don't make "stock" solution. You'll need a medicine dosing syringe to measure the syrup. Dilution B can have rather short developing times, some folks double the dilution and time. The syrup is close to eternal in shelf life.

 

Rodinal is sort of a swiss army knife. All sorts of choices of dilutions, with different effects. Hard to get "box speed" with Rodinal without rather high contrast, it's almost a speed losing developer. Very very crisp etched grain with Rodinal. The stuff in the bottle is eternal.

 

You can use powdered developers and get better shelf life by getting a lot of small (8 ounce or 16 ounce) brown glass bottles, and filling them all to the brim. Use them single-use, of course. It's oxygen that ruins developers.

 

Papers need very different developers. You can use the same stop baths, but fixers need to be mixed to different dilutions.

Ilford PQ universal will apparently work with both films and papers (it does what it says on the bottle...) but my personal experience is as above, Rodinal or HC110.

I prefer D76 and Rodinal, rarely use anything else, although in the last 50 or so years I've used some other brews with varying degrees of satisfaction.

Bob, I'm in Europe, and not sure what's available wherever you are. Anyway, I'm in a

similar situation, and use all chemicals on a one-shot basis. I like the syrupy, long shelf

life developers that keep a long time undiluted. I use Rodinal, Tetenal Ultrafin+ and

Tetenal Neopress HC for developers. Rodinal is the sharpest, and has good tonality, but

the grain is sharp and noticeable. I use it when I want this effect to show. Ultrafin+ gives

me great results with ISO 100 films where I want fine grain (more correctly, less noticeable

grain). Neopress HC is my general purpose developer that I use for ISO 400 films like Tri-

X. I got some bottles from the pharmacy that dribble out a few drops at a time. I use

these for undiluted stop bath (perhaps 6-8 drops per 8 ounce tank) and wetting solution

(just a drop or two). Finally, I use Tetenal Superfix Plus for a quick 4 minute fix. I dilute

about 8:1 and discard after one use.

 

As I said, I'm not sure you have access to Tetenal, but the equivalent long life Kodak or

Ilford chemicals should do nicely. If you experiment a bit, I'm sure you can find some very

long shelf life chemicals that will work for you. I was glad to get away from the powders,

short shelf lives, and keeping track of reuse.

Film fixers has hardener in them to harden the emulsion. This hardener is not the greatest for fiber base prints.

Bob,not that I'm any Ansel Adams, but I have been at it for 40 years.For film developing I used D-76(1:1) mostly until XTOL came out,I've also used Acufine, HC-110B (1:31), Diafine, DK-50, DK-20, etc.,etc. And several that needed to be mixed from scratch....For my money XTOL @ (1:2)is the champ. For developing papers I have used Dektol(1:2) almost exclusively, Kodak Indicater Stop Bath, and Kodak Rapid Fixer, and Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, and Edwal's LFN liquid foaming agent..... These last 4 are diluted as package says.......Good luck.......Jim

Hi guys, thanks for the input - much food for thought!

 

Cheers, Bob

well, even though Pyro PMK is somewhat of an oddball developer that lends itself to particular types of photography, it is really cheap and has an indefinite shelf life, and you can make tons of it, plus you can just use water as a stop and use fixer without hardener which means you wont have to buy fix "b". i've seen pyro do some amazing stuff with night photography.

 

 

however, D-76 and Edwal FG-7 are relatively inexpensive and long lasting chemistry

I have just processed my first roll of b/w HP5 Plus after many years. I used Tetenal Superfix Plus, it all worked very well...

I remember using Fix more than once, should I store the diluted solution now and use a few more times? I certainly wouldn't attempt this with developer but I'm sure I used to use Fix solution a few times?, I welcome any feedback, be gentle - first post!

Dilution doesn't shorten fixer's life span so yes store and reuse it. - Sorry, I am not familiar with Tetenal so I can't tell how many rolls you can do with your bath. - Maybe read up the documentation of the soup you are using?

There are reusable developers, like undiluted Ilford soups or Kodak T-Max. Reusing is fine when you follow the manuals and for example have to do 6 rolls during the weekend after vacation. But yes, I prefered one shot developers like Microphen 1+3 back in the days too.

Hello everyone. Adam's bit about PMK-Pyro lasting "forever" is a bit of "fake news". PMK "A", which is the active pyro part, will go off in about 6 months or less if you let air get to it. If you want to work with a Pyro type staining developer, I would recommend the PyroCat HD sold thru Formulary. Get the mix with glycol. That does last! I am using a kit purchased in 2012. You do need a non acid fixer. The DIY fixer mix of sodium thiosulfate & sodium sulfite is EZ, cheap & long lasting when you use a 2x rinse between the pyro dev. & the fixing stage. Enjoy, whatever you pick. Aloha, Bill Picture is 35mm Kentmere400 developed in Obsidian Aqua (another DIY pyro). V600 scan

The shelf life of developer is based on exclusion of oxygen (glass > plastic), in full containers, away from exposure to light and most important, unused. IMO it is poor economy to use expensive, proprietary developers because you are tempted to reuse them until you can't tolerate the smell. For years I used an inexpensive developer, Kodak D-76, which I diluted 1:1 and discarded after one use. The unused developer would last at least two months (except I used a gallon in a couple of weeks).

 

Different developers have different characteristics. So-called "fine grain" developers have chemicals which dissolve silver halide, diffusing the grain structure. D-76 produces sharply defined, relatively small grain with high acutance. Dilution slows the development, opens shadow detail, and makes timing and agitation variations less significant.

 

D-76 is a powder, which must be completely dissolved in the prescribed manner. Always allow powder based developers to stand at least overnight. Liquid developers can be diluted and used immediately. I believe 110 comes in liquid form (forgive, it's been 50 years or so).

 

A good rule for photography (and other things) is that consistency is more important than being "right", which is a subjective term at best.

Andy, whether the fixer is re-useable depends on the dilution.

 

It used to be common practice to re-use fixer until the clearing time doubled (clearing time=time for the milky developed negative to become clear), and for fixing times to extend to 10 or 15 minutes.

 

With the introduction of rapid fixer that rule of thumb no longer held, and fixing times became much shorter. However, the economy of rapid fixer is such that one-shot and repeated use is roughly the same, except for the longer fixing time required in the more dilute one-shot solution.

 

If you've used the "standard" - label recommended - dilution, then that should be re-useable. Personally I favour a greater dilution and extended time as a one-shot fix.

 

In any event you shouldn't keep diluted fixer for more than a few months. It tends to break down over time and lose its fixing ability.

 

Anyhow. Did the fixer not come with instructions? Just follow the recommended dilution and film capacity.

Without replenishment, the capacity of D76 is pretty low, making it not so cheap.

 

HC-110 does over 100 rolls per litre of concentrate, pretty much linear in dilution.

 

For dilution B, the recommended capacity is one (135-36 or 120) roll per 250ml.

It takes about 500ml for a 120 tank, so two rolls (add time for the second roll).

This thread was started in 2008 and I would think the OP has moved on since then.

 

Andycahill revived the thread to ask specifically about fixer. So I think we should stick to answering that, rather than the original 9 year old question.

Both developers and fixers have a capacity rating.

 

If you underfix, you can always fix again. If you underdevelop, there isn't much to do.

(OK, there are intensifiers, but much better to develop right in the first place.)

 

I don't use my darkroom quite often enough, so I don't get as much use out of fixers as I should.

 

As I understand it, rapid fixer changes pH with time and/or use.

If you correct for pH change, you should get full use out of it.

As far as I know, that mostly means adding acetic acid when the pH is to high.

In the case that it is too low, ammonium hydroxide, but that seems less common.

An acetic or other mild acid stop bath, rather than a plain water rinse, preserves the pH of the fixing solution and extends its life.

 

Glacial acetic acid isn't easy to come by these days, but citric acid is sold for descaling kettles etc. and white vinegar is easily bought. Although the white vinegar might have other undesirable organics in it.

 

The acid stop bath should be at a strength of about 2%. That would be about 2 heaped teaspoons of citric acid per litre of water. Or maybe 4 egg-cupfulls of white vinegar per litre (at a guess).

Edited June 28, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

An acetic or other mild acid stop bath, rather than a plain water rinse, preserves the pH of the fixing solution and extends its life

 

How so?

 

If you want to preserve the existing pH of a fixer, it seems pretty clear that you should only add things that won't change it. A stop bath pH is much lower than any fixer that I know of. Water, on the other hand, can have a wide range of pH values, but since there is virtually no "buffering" it has almost no effect on the fixer pH.

I'm pretty sure the pH change for a fixer comes from carryover of developer which has a higher pH than the target value for a fixer. Hence the benefit of adding a lower pH solution, such as 2% acetic.

 

D-76 target pH is 8.5. As a datapoint, C-41 developer is pH 10.

Fixers pH range from upper 5s to 7.25

I'm pretty sure the pH change for a fixer comes from carryover of developer which has a higher pH than the target value for a fixer. Hence the benefit of adding a lower pH solution, such as 2% acetic.

 

Hi, I quoted Rodeo as comparing a stop bath vs water:

("An acetic or other mild acid stop bath, rather than a plain water rinse,...").

 

Certainly bringing developer carryover directly into the fixer will tend to raise the fixer pH, but this non-standard method is not being recommended, nor is it the issue here - it's an acidic stop bath vs plain water.

 

I think that Rodeo simply misspoke, but... well, maybe he knows something further.

 

Regarding fixer pH, we seem to be very successful fixing C-41 films at a near neutral pH of about 6.5; the idea that fixer is somehow "bad" when its pH begins to rise above 4.x doesn't carry much weight with me. EXCEPT in the case of certain hardening fixers that have to keep a low pH so that the hardening agent doesn't precipitate out.

 

Regarding C-41 and its high developer pH, the defined process doesn't allow that anywhere near the fixer. Standard C-41 film processing carries developer directly into the bleach bath, then film goes through a substantial water wash before entering the fixer. (Note: hand processing of C-41 tends to have problems getting a sudden, thorough immersion into the bleach, so that such users often insert a stop bath in between. But this is never done in large-scale commercial machines - the bleach is formulated to counter the high pH of developer carry-in).

An acid stop bath used to be common practise, for the very purpose of preserving the - in those days - acid fixing bath.

 

Now there are new-fangled alkali fixers (why?!) and a generation of newby film enthusiasts that have no clue about the process except for watching some half-arsed amateur videos on developing from Youtube.

 

Just ignore me. I only have over 40 years darkroom experience.

 

And who the heck was discussing C-41? Obviously that's a completely different case, which in most processes uses a combined bleach-fix "Blix" bath, where the bleach needs a certain pH to be maintained.

 

I don't think anyone here runs a continuous roller processor machine at home.

Edited June 29, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1

I have a few times had my rapid fixer, that isn't past the recommended capacity, plate silver on the inside of the bottle.

 

I believe that is due to pH change, but never measured it to find out.

 

Lately I have been using more HC110, but it used to be mostly Diafine.

Diafine recommends no acid stop bath, so I use water. And maybe not always long enough.

 

But I suspect it can lose acetic acid from evaporation, though I try to keep the bottle well sealed.

The instruction leaflet for Tetenal Superfix plus gives times and replenishment rates "Mit Stoppbad oder Zwischenwässerung /with stop bath or intermediate wash / soit avec bain d’arrêt soit avec lavage intermediare......" and continues to mention a stop bath in half a dozen other languages.

 

A slightly greater replenishment rate is recommended if no stop bath is used.

 

Also, the following is a description of Tetenal's odourless fixer:

 

"Tetenal Superfix Odourless is a user friendly fixer for all b/w papers and films. Neutral pH, therefore ideal for fibre based paper. Use only in combination with Indicet Stop bath."

 

Indicet stop bath is citric acid based and contains a pH indicator.

Edited June 29, 2017 by rodeo_joe|1