Nikon 1

Just saw the Nikon 1 camera. Does anyone have any info or thoughts about it?

 

http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/Nikon-Camera-Technology/Nikon-1-Cameras.page?cid=eml-1011-

lenewsletter-article1img

<p>try this thread.</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ZMU1</p>

<p>There's also some insightful commentary at bythom.com.</p>

<p>I have been using a J1 for several days. It is a very small camera with interchangeable lenses and it is designed for consumers.</p>

<p>If you are familiar with Nikon DSLRs, the good news is that most of the control are also available on the J1, from matrix, center weighted, and spot metering to S, P, A, M metering controls to Active D Lighting to RAW + JPEG options. RAW is available in only one flavor: compressed, and interestingly, RAW + JPEG has to be JPEG fine (unlike RAW + JPEG basic only on some earlier consumer DSLRs). However, given the small size, most of the control are from the menu.</p>

<p>As you can see, the pop up flash looks a bit flimsy to me and when it is up, it leaves a big hole on the top of the camera. Clearly the camera is not weather sealed. Potentially rain drops can get inside easily. Flash sync is limited to 1/60 sec, and you cannot use an external flash. To me, that is a pretty serious limitation, but when your camera is that small, it is a limitation you have to accept. (The other model V1 does not have a built-in flash and you can mount an external flash that can flip up.)</p>

<p>AF works quite well and face-detection AF now works very well. All three lenses I have used are good but the zooms are on the slow side. I find it strange that Nikon makes the first prime as a pretty wide lens, 10mm/f2.8, 27mm FX equivalent. I would prefer a 35mm or 40mm equivalent.</p>

<p>Concerning high ISO, I can get good results up to ISO 800. From 1600 and up, you start losing details that becomes murky. However, I don't quite see the grainy effect as it is typical on DSLR high-ISO images.</p>

<p>There are other features such as video that I haven't used much yet.</p>

<p>I think the main problem with the J1 is cost. With the 10-30mm/f3.5-5.6 mid-range zoom, it is $650: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823580-REG/Nikon_27528_1_J1_Mirrorless_Digital.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823580-REG/Nikon_27528_1_J1_Mirrorless_Digital.html</a><br /> The D3100 with the 18-55mm kit zoom is $550, $100 cheaper: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/730210-REG/Nikon_25472_D3100_Digital_SLR_Camera.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/730210-REG/Nikon_25472_D3100_Digital_SLR_Camera.html</a><br /> I think you get a lot more with a DSLR. The higher-end V1 has more features but is even more expensive. I think after the initial demand, the prices for the V1 and J1 have to come down to stay competitive.</p>

<p>However, the J1 is definitely small. See how small everything is compared to the 50mm/f1.8 AF-S lens.</p><div></div>

<p>The UK web site ePhotoZone is showing a Nikon One factory tour. You may find that an interesting read: <a href="http://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-1-series-china-factory-tour-17607">http://www.ephotozine.com/article/nikon-1-series-china-factory-tour-17607</a></p>

<p>The Nikon factory is near Shanghai, along the eastern cost of China. It looks like they roughly make 3 times as many J1 than V1. That explains why Nikon USA sent us the J1 instead of V1 for review.</p>

<p>Dpreview has posted test shots takne with the V1 versus other camera:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio">http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio</a> scene&headerSubTitle=Standard studio scene comparison&masterCamera=nikon_v1&masterSample=dsc_0304&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=nikon_v1&slot0Sample=dsc_0304&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=sony_nexc3&slot1Sample=dsc00987&slot2Camera=oly_epl3&slot2Sample=p8100509&slot3Camera=panasonic_dmcgf3&slot3Sample=p1000128&x=0&y=0</p>

<p>I do not think the pricing is really that out of line. While it may be true a D3100 can be had for less money, it is also true that a D3100 is a much bigger and louder camera. You're kind of comparing apples to oranges here. If you take a look at this camera's direct competitors - namely the Micro Four Thirds cameras, you will see they are comparably priced:<br>

Lower End - Olympus Pen E-PL2:<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749936-REG/Olympus_262901_E_PL2_Digital_Camera_W_14_42mm.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749936-REG/Olympus_262901_E_PL2_Digital_Camera_W_14_42mm.html</a></p>

<p>High end - Olympus Pen E-P3:<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/805176-REG/Olympus_V204031SU000_E_P3_PEN_Digital_Camera.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/805176-REG/Olympus_V204031SU000_E_P3_PEN_Digital_Camera.html</a><br>

I am disappointed that Nikon chose to develop their own proprietary lens mount instead of using the existing micro-4/3 standard. Especially considering the they are only releasing 3 Nikon-1 lenses at this time. Sure, you can use your Nikon F lenses with an adapter, but that kind of defeats the purpose of cameras this small.</p>

 

<p>Daniel, have you clicked on the Pen E-PL2 link you provided above? Add that into the cart and the actual price is $550, $100 cheaper than the J1. Sony's NEX-C3 with a kit lens is $599, $50 cheaper and that is with a DX/APS-C size sensor which should be a lot more expensive than Nikon's.</p>

<p>

There are a few J1 reviews out and I have seen one or two V1 reviews. Every review points out that the Nikon One system is expensive. I think the lenses are priced ok, about $250 each for the ones I showed above, but the bodies are definitely expensive. In other words, we'll likely see discounts after the first few months.

</P>

<p>There are actually a 4th Nikon 1 lens, a 10-100mm zoom for video capture that I don't have on loan. I am sure more lenses will follow. The 10-30mm and 30-110mm zooms are kind of the obvious ones. It'll be another year or two before Nikon can build up the lens selections and refine their camera body design.</p>

<p>Compare the price of the V1 to the NEX and the Micro 4/3, It's not all that out of line when you figure in the cost of the add on EVF, <br>

You can get the V1 and both kit lenses for $1,149.00 , The Epl3 going to set you back<br>

$1169.00 . and the lenses are very poorly made,<br>

The EP3 $1369.00 and the NEX 5 will top out at $1399.00</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The Epl3 going to set you back<br /> $1169.00 . and the lenses are very poorly made,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The epl3 is $699 and olympus m4/3 lenses are not "very poorly made"</p>

<blockquote>

<p>t's not all that out of line when you figure in the cost of the add on EVF,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>and just how important are EVFs to your average P&S user, which the 1 is market toward?</p>

<p>Last but not least...the d3100, Nex and M4/3 all have much bigger sensor size. How can you compare them to the nikon 1's 2.7x puny sensor? It's as if Nikon raised the d7000 price to $2k and say, oh, it competes with 5d2 or d700...the IQ is maybe 1 stop less in the high ISO, and the DR is very similar. It's still cost a little less than either...</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p> the NEX 5 will top out at $1399.00</p>

</blockquote>

<p>MC Clayton, could you show us your math? I wonder how you came up with that $1399 total.</p>

<p>The Sony NEX 5 was last year's model that is already discontinued, although some left over ones are still available new. The updated model is the NEX 5N, and the 5N with a 18-55 kit zoom is $700: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/817850-REG/Sony_NEX_5NK_B_NEX_5N_Digital_Camera_with.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/817850-REG/Sony_NEX_5NK_B_NEX_5N_Digital_Camera_with.html</a></p>

<p>A similarly equipped V1 with the 10-30mm kit zoom is $900: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823590-REG/Nikon_27504_Nikon_1_V1_Mirrorless.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823590-REG/Nikon_27504_Nikon_1_V1_Mirrorless.html</a></p>

<p>I realize that Sony makes a $350 electronic viewfinder for the 5N, but I wonder how many 5N owners will add such an expensive accessory.</p>

<p>But the real issue is that a D5100 with a 18-55 kit zoom is only $750: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5100-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B004V4IWKG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319090554&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5100-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B004V4IWKG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319090554&sr=8-1</a></p>

<p>Supposedly, the Nikon One mirrorless cameras would bridge the gap between high-end point and shoots such as the P7100 and consumer DSLRs. But at prices higher than consumer DSLRs such as the D3100 and D5100, I am afraid Nikon will have a hard time selling very many V1 and J1.</p>

<p>Compare apples to apples. sure the old NEX 5 is less.<br>

The V1 kit with 2 zooms $1149.00<br>

the new nex 5 699.00. , the viewfinder 349.00, 55-210 lens $349.00<br>

That's $1397.00.<br>

The US market for Nikon is only 27%, I'll bet they do very well with it in Asia.</p>

<p>I think it is not all that relevant to include the price of D3100 in this discussion about cost. As a substantial fraction of customers shopping for a mirror-less cameras are not interested in the traditional dSLR form factor at all. The camera bodies of D3100 and D5100 are indeed not that big, as compared to D300s, D700, or god forbid the D3. However, once you add the size of the lens, flash, they will become bigger and bigger next to any mirror-less cameras, especially those with an APS-C sensor. It is the size of the whole package that matters to a lot of the people looking at these small cameras.</p>

<p>Take the soccer mom analogy that we used before, would they rather get a J1 plus the 30-110, or the D3100 plus the 70-300 lens? Which one is cheaper, cooler, and easier to carry? </p>

<p>The mirror-less cameras, especially those from Olympus and Panasonic, are not cheap, especially at launch. </p>

<p>We are talking about consumer cameras; sales of these consumer products is always very price sensitive, especially in a poor economy.</p>

<p>However, it has been Nikon's strategy to set a higher initial price; let those who must have the first of something to pay more. The retailers will gradually drop the price in a few months as supply exceeds demand. Take the D5100 as an example. It was announced on April 5 this year at $800 body only, $900 with the 18-55 kit lens: <a href="00YVzO">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YVzO</a><br>

Now 6+ months later, you can get it with the kit lens for $750 as I mentioned yesterday, $150 off the original price.</p>

<p>Whether you want to be the first to buy a J1/V1 is up to you to decide.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Compare apples to apples. sure the old NEX 5 is less.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So my d700 is old too. Actually, it came a couple years or maybe three years before the Nex 5. Maybe you should compare *sensor size tech* and time. BTW I'm rather impressed by the J1's IQ but it still don't compare to the aps-c or 4/3 sensor...much like 4/3 sensor don't compared to, say, FF sensor.</p>

<p>Shun's right...the price will drop to the proper market level after a few months imo...</p>

<p> </p>

Shun, How good is the AF tracking in real-life use? If you have a person run towards you and you use the 30-110 to

make a sequence of shots, how high is the probability of shots in critical focus? I know this is dependent on a lot of

parameters such as lighting, aperture etc. but still it would be interesting to hear your comments. Also if you can

compare to a DSLR, that would be useful.

<p>I haven't tried the AF tracking yet. Actually I have plans to go to our local train station and capture the train approaching. I guess I can try multiple times during the day and during the night.</p>

<p>Face-detect AF is clearly improving; the D7000 is much better than that on the D3/D300 and it is working very well on the J1 also. The thing is that it can only detect a face from the front. I have a short video from the D7000 where it locked onto the person sitting across the table inside a restaurant. When that person turned to the side, face-detect AF would lose track of him and instead locked onto another person who sat at one table beyind him. When my subject turned and was facing me again, AF would lock on him again. The focus went back and forth that way a few times and is pretty weird. I haven't tried that on the J1 yet but I suspect that it would have the same issue since it also can only recognize a face from the front.</p>

<p>I captured this video with the J1 last night. We didn't have time for much editing, so this is essentially raw footage. Video quality is excellent and quite to my surprise, audio quality from the on-camera microphones (the J1 has two for stereo sound recording) is very good. I never got that kind of audio quality from the D7000's on-camera mic and always use an external mic there, but the J1 has no microphone jack to use an external one:</p>

<p><a href="

<p>Somehow the J1 got very warm, on both front and back, after capturing about 10 minutes of video.</p>

<p>btw, Nikon is also BLASTING us with ads on the World Series for this camera (with Ashton Kutcher again) and the ads are actually really really great.</p>

<p>Concerning the so called "apple to apple" comparison against the Sony NEX, I would say forget it. Nikon's CX-format sensor is about 30% of the area of the Sony NEX, which is APS-C/DX. Any NEX camera is going to have a huge advantage concerning its light-gathering capability. But I tend to agree that Nikon chooses a very small sensor size so that the Nikon One cameras are small. DPReview has an interesting article about that: <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9716229576/why-make-a-small-sensor-mirrorless-camera">http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9716229576/why-make-a-small-sensor-mirrorless-camera</a></p>

<p>I am sure they are pushing the J1 very hard. Nikon lucks out that it is manufactured in their China factory instead of Thailand, which is currently flooded. The supply of D3100, D5100 and D7000 could be pretty limited for the holiday season so that they have to be counting on the V1 and J1.</p>

<p>Here is the sensor size comparison again.</p><div></div>

<p>I too am curious about how face-detection works in Nikon 1s. Based on my experience using it with the Panasonic GH1, I absolutely love it. Indeed, as Shun says, one would initially think that the face detection might not be that useful once your subject turns away from you. However, in reality, this is a very minor issue because (1) if they are not facing you, you would not want to take the picture any way and (2) once they face you again, the camera will quickly regain locked AF. Unlike just using AF tracking, during which the AF may lock on on objects beside the person you wish to photograph. Thus if you want to track a moving person, face-detection is just wonderful.</p>

<p>I was once using GH1 with the superzoom, 14-140, photographing my then 2 yr old running about to catch the water shooting out from the many holes in the ground (a common feature in many parks in the summer in the US). My technique was that once face detection detected the face, I shot in bursts. When the face detection was off, I stopped, and when it was on again, I shot in bursts. Since face-detection not only locks focus on the face, it also set the exposure accordingly, all I had to do was to frame the shots. My keep rate was over 80%. The camera was able to capture him between objects and even through the water shooting out from below. Furthermore, even if the person is not moving, using face detection save you the trouble of focus-re-compose. If the face-detection in the Nikon works similarly efficiently, this will be an outstanding tool to photograph people with the need to get the most sophisticated AF in the D300s and up.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>However, in reality, this is a very minor issue because (1) if they are not facing you, you would not want to take the picture any way and (2) once they face you again, the camera will quickly regain locked AF.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>CC Chang, the problem was that I was shooting video.</p>

<p>Another issue is that it can detect multiple faces within the image, and those faces are not necessarily all the same distance from the camera. I think it is favoring the one that is closest to the camera, which seems to make sense.</p>

<p>Some early pictures taken by regular users look very promising:<br /> http://www.openbloom.com/GEAR-Etc-1/Nikon-1-V1/19648888_Nn5D4F#1541714631_XvqSvn2</p>

<p>High ISO shots are also impressive:<br /> http://www.openbloom.com/Other/Nikon-V1-ISO-Test/19658418_fpQQ6w#1541746121_XMHWvDB</p>

<p>I think the 1 will be a winner. I am holding off my m4/3 upgrade and see what Nikon has to offer in terms of lens selection in the near future. The white J1/V1 is just beautiful!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Another issue is that it can detect multiple faces within the image, and those faces are not necessarily all the same distance from the camera. I think it is favoring the one that is closest to the camera, which seems to make sense.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>With the Panasonic, you can ask the camera to "memorize" the face of a particular person. Thus in theory it is possible to ask the camera to focus preferentially to the persons stored in its memory. In actual use, I don't remember if there is any preference since I primarily use it for stills. Yes, shooting video as the AF points shift from one person to another can be very annoying so it is better to set up the shots such that this can be avoided ... Can't wait to read your review though.</p>

<p>A local camera store just got the V1 yesterday. The battery was not charged so I could not see how it operates. But I was rather suprised by how large and chunky it is, given its sensor size. And I did not like how it felt in my hands. I also played with Olympus' E-P3 and E-PL3, and Sony's NEX-5N. I liked the feel of the NEX in my hands the best. It is ironic that the V1 has the largest body and smallest sensor of the lot, whereas the NEX-5N has the smallest body and largest sensor. The V1 does, however, have the built-in EVF that the others lack.</p>

<p>At this moment I am more impressed with m43 and NEX offerings than Nikon's 1 series. But I do think Nikon 1 is a system with a lot of potential, and I'll be keeping an eye on it.</p>

<p>The V1 shares the EN-EL15 battery with the D7000, so if you have a battery for the D7000, you can power up the V1. But that is also why the V1 is much thicker since it needs to hold the EN-EL15 inside.</p>

<p>The J1 uses the much smaller EN-EL20. Given the amount of heat it dissipates, if you shoot a lot of video, I wonder how long that battery can last. Of course, each HD video is limited to 20 minutes so that you cannot be shooting continuously for a long time without stopping. So if you shoot a lot of video, you need multiple batteries. Whether the heat may damage the camera after prolonged usage is another issue.</p>

<p>I played with a J1 for a while today. I like it. It is extremely fast, just as Nikon claimed it would be. Yes, the price is excessive ... but it is within reason. This is marketed to people looking for something between a G12/P7100 and a DSLR, and on first blush it seems to fit that market wonderfully. But considering the marketing blurbs released, that should surprise no one.</p>

<p>My opinion, and the reason I feel the J1 will sell very well even at $650, is that Nikon isn't actually trying to sell these cameras. I mean they are obviously, but not like you're thinking. SLR sales are more profitable, if only because SLR owners are more likely to buy extra lenses, flashes, filters, multiple bags, etc. But Nikon realizes that there is a segment of the market that wants this product, and they figure that people might as well buy it from them. If Joe Smith (or more likely, Ngyen, Chan, or Morimoto) already owns a Nikon SLR and a Nikon point-and-shoot, and the money is just burning a hole in their pocket, why let Panasonic have the sale? Nikon already has the customer base, and they've got their wallets out.</p>

<p>And if the consumer is Jane Camera, looking to be a 'professional photographer' as a side job because "everyone likes her photos", there's a good chance she'll buy some goofball camera anyway - I see iit all the time. The demographic is there.</p>

<p>It's a good produce at a reasonable, although not great, price. If selling a million of these in pink and red gives them more money to pump into R&D for pro cameras, or to repair their factories so we can finally get the product we've been waiting for, I'm all for it.</p>