tips for wedding photography

<p>"Harry, I'm curious what happened with your shots. Was this on a canon system? In P mode with flash"<br />Yes I was using a Canon EOS-3 if I remember correctly !</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Oops--sorry, William W. I understand the clarification. I mean 'not calling the shots' the same way using AV and TV are not calling the shots, as in figuring out one or more of the variables for you. I mean 'calling the shots' as in setting each variable yourself, specifically. I totally agree that a photographer can still have complete control using Program, AV or TV, knowing exactly what the camera is 'doing'/will 'do' in those modes.</p>

<p>@ WW:</p>

<p>The fact is that a competent photographer will get more hindrance than help from P mode. Sure you can still control aperture and shutter speed, but only until you take your finger of the trigger, Then you're back to square one and have to repeat the process for your next shot.<br>

If you want to consistently control DoF and have even a tiny bit of freedom to move or recompose between shots, this is nothing more than a complete waste of time.</p>

<p>Bottom line: There is no logical reason for anyone, with enough experience to use M mode correctly, to ever use P mode. <br>

It is counter productive, at best. <br>

As for this train wreck of a sentence: </p>

<blockquote>

<p>And even though you do not care less: maybe hang around long enough on this thread, to answer these questions posed to you.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I fail to see a question mark anywhere. It could be hidden under layers of poor grammar, or I may simply have missed it (most likely due to complete lack of interest).</p>

<p>At least we have progressed to the stage that we now acknowledge <strong><em>when using P mode we can Control Aperture and Shutter Speed.</em></strong> This is a dynamic shift from previous statements that the camera was not allowing you to get the shot you want and doing all the thinking for you.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The fact is that a competent photographer will get more hindrance than help from P mode.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The statement that a competent photographer will get more hindrance than help from P mode - is NOT a fact, but an opinion. It seems that opinion is based upon more words, again in these words there seems to still be ignorance and incorrect statements - purporting to be fact. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Sure you can still control aperture and shutter speed, but only until you take your finger of the trigger, Then you're back to square one and have to repeat the process for your next shot.<br />If you want to consistently control DoF and have even a tiny bit of freedom to move or recompose between shots, this is nothing more than a complete waste of time.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

<strong>If you are referring to Program Shift Memory disappearing: </strong><br>

<em>it does NOT deactivate when the trigger finger is released from the shutter button</em> – it hangs about a bit - and if one wants that memorized exposure - it is there for the next shot should it be necessary.<br>

Also to hold it, one can easily half-depress the shutter release. <br>

The FACT is:<br>

The Override Setting is available to use if you want to use it for the next shot.<br>

How to accomplish that, is merely functionality matter and also knowing COMPLETELY how the camera works and seeking out the possibilities and advantages of ANY mode, once ALL the functionalities are understood and appreciated.<br>

<em> </em><br>

<strong>If you are saying you have to remove the trigger finger to make manual adjustments in P mode:</strong><br>

Then that is incorrect also.<br>

There is NO need to remove the finger on the shutter release to change the Aperture or Shutter Speed when using P mode.<br>

If that if one is holding the camera such that the trigger finger has to be removed from the SHUTTER RELEASE to make a Manual Selection when in P MODE – then if using that SAME HAND GRIP when in MANUAL MODE, the Photographer <em>will have to remove the trigger finger to control, the Tv</em> – which makes M mode just as silly to use as P mode.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Bottom line: There is no logical reason for anyone, with enough experience to use M mode correctly, to ever use P mode.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Also note that my commentary is not ever suggesting that P mode is a panacea for every shot.<br>

I am simply showing that P mode should NOT be stricken from every Photographer’s vocabulary – which is only what I contested in the first place.<br>

IMO there is no logical reason for every Photograher to always use M Mode - which seems to be where we are heading, from what has been argued and presented, even though much of it, factually incorrect.</p>

<p>WW </p>

<p>I have never said anything about M being the only choice.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>If you are referring to Program Shift Memory disappearing: </strong><br /><em>it does NOT deactivate when the trigger finger is released from the shutter button</em> – it hangs about a bit - and if one wants that memorized exposure - it is there for the next shot should it be necessary.<br />Also to hold it, one can easily half-depress the shutter release. <br />The FACT is:<br />The Override Setting is available to use if you want to use it for the next shot.<br />How to accomplish that, is merely functionality matter and also knowing COMPLETELY how the camera works and seeking out the possibilities and advantages of ANY mode, once ALL the functionalities are understood and appreciated.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>"A bit" if I remember correctly is somewhere in the two second area, in this case. For someone who claims to use P mode help work under time pressure, you seem to have a very relaxed attitude towards time, in the way you work.</p>

<p>And yes, you are correct. One can hold it by keeping the shutter release half depressed. Good thing we don't need that for anything else, right. Oh wait.. Isn't that where the AF is?<br>

I guess real super-photographers like you don't need that. Just focus once and use that for the next 50 shots. Who cares if they are all in focus and correctly exposed.</p>

<p>I think that we have come to the point, where you are really just trying to convince yourself.</p>

<p>Returning - humbly - to the original poster's question (and attempting to answer it in some small way): at the risk of sounding like a snob (and kinda risking Nadine's raised eyebrow and frown), your equipment is simply not suitable. I'm sorry, but that is a reality. It's perfectly fine for shooting landscapes, maybe some not-so-challenging street photography, maybe daytime sports, maybe even some tame wildlife and such, but when it comes to something AS IMPORTANT as someone's wedding, it simply won't do! End of story!</p>

<p>I understand the kit suggestions and shooting approached mentioned above, but even a very experienced photographer would be hard pressed to shoot a wedding with am 18-55 lens and no flashes, even in a medium-lit venue. Some things simply cannot be done (at least, done properly or even adequately).</p>

<p>Do you need $10,000 worth of kit? Well, it depends. Are you charging full price for the shot? Are these normal, walk-in paying customers? Then you do. Unequivocally, you do! End of story. Are these your childhood friends who trust you even though you have warned them repeatedly you have no experience and no serious kit? Then maybe you can get away with less than $2,000 or something.</p>

<p>As for the suggestions made earlier, WW is right - the adjustable P mode is VERY flexible and can be a VERY good learning tool for the budding photographer, even though I'm not so sure I would classify it at the same flexibility level as A or S modes (I'm a Nikon shooter). Still, for the OP it might be much more helpful than going directly to M or A modes.</p>

<p>But if I may be allowed to raise an important point here, for all involved and at the risk of sounding snobish: while I FULLY understand the desire to help people and give them the best advice for their gear and shooting technique, don't you guys and girls think that, every now and then, we should preface that advice with a "don't"? I'm simply saying that, sometimes, an entry level DSLR and a kit lens (for example) is simply NOT enough for certain types of photography, no matter what. Some situations are simply NOT only about photography but about the event itself. Say we all offer amazing shooting advice to the OP (any OP) and then they go out, with their inadequate kit, and make a mess of someone else's special moments. Is this the correct attitude to adopt in a world and time when truly BAD photographers are flooding the market? (and I'm not saying this to protect our markets - really, I'm not - I'm saying this to protect the customers, the people who base their hopes on someone who got a D3000 kit and charged them $400-$500 to destroy their wedding memories....</p>

<p>What do you think?</p>

<p>A once received a fortune cookie with the following advice in inside: "You can put tap shoes on an elephant, but he might never learn to dance".</p>

<p>My question to anyone wanting to do anything as complicated as shooting a wedding. Would you buy a pair of tap shoes and agree to perform on stage sans training and practice? Then how can you even presume to think that you can shoot an acceptable series of images, of a one of kind ,non-repeatable event such as a wedding? To shoot a wedding you first need to know "how" to shoot. To become an advanced "nuts and bolts" expert photographer. Next you need to learn "what" to shoot. You need to study and learn how to quickly shoot a huge amount of flattering images of people, in a very short time.</p>

<p>Start with several books on basic photography, particularly flash photography. Then I'd find books specifically about wedding photography. Also a beginner needs to study wedding photographs either in books or online. And learn to copy the style, until a style of your own can emerge with practice and experience.</p>

<p>Marios--why do you think I'd disapprove of your statements? Clearly, if I were to talk about Muhammad's gear, I'd say the same thing you did. I didn't answer that part of his question--I just answered as if he were to jump in and start shooting weddings without trying to find assisting positions first. I apologize if I didn't make that clear in my post.</p>

<p>Morten--that 'bit' is 6 seconds, I believe, and AF can be assigned to the * button.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"And yes, you are correct. One can hold it by keeping the shutter release half depressed. Good thing we don't need that for anything else, right. <strong>Oh wait.. Isn't that where the AF is? . . .</strong>"</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good. We are progressing further in our knowledge and accepting the <em><strong>facts</strong></em> about the functionalities of the camera.<br />But alas - more ignorance of functionality creeps into the conversation masking itself as a knowledgeable comment: <strong><em>AF is located at "*" – this is a most common practice.</em></strong><br />Many if not most Professional Shooters and many Amateurs remove AF from the Half Depress Shutter Function and put AF to the rear of the camera.</p>

<p><strong>"A bit" if I remember correctly is somewhere in the two second area</strong>, in this case. For someone who claims to use P mode help work under time pressure, you seem to have a very relaxed attitude towards time, in the way you work.</p>

<p>The "bit" is long enough to use it.<br>

Thanks again for the personal quips, made I guess to mask the inadequate knowledge of functionality. </p>

<p>*</p>

<blockquote>

<p>“. . . Oh wait.. Isn't that where the AF is?<br /><em><strong>I guess real super-photographers like you don't need that. Just focus once and use that for the next 50 shots. Who cares if they are all in focus and correctly exposed.”</strong></em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>As for the (continual) quips and personal slights questioning experience and skills – well – it was you that wrote:<br /><em>“Assume what you will. My intention was not to discredit you or anyone else. I have absolutely nothing to gain from that.”</em></p>

<p>*</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I think that we have come to the point, where you are really just trying to convince yourself.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No.<br />You made a Blanket Statement to a beginner, that P Mode should be removed from the Photographs’ Vocabulary.<br />I disagreed with that - as it is bad advice.<br />Indeed, we have come to the point where it is obvious as we have progressed YOU continually touted assumptions, misinformation and erroneous material and paraded them as facts and solid information to defend your blanket statement suggesting that P mode should be removed from the Photographers Vocabulary.</p>

<p>You have been continually inundated with the FACTS, about how the camera actually works, explained patiently by someone who uses those cameras and who has had many years experience shooting Weddings, which is relevant as the question is about shooting a Wedding.</p>

<p>Slowly you have admitted each point made about functionality is correct and you have then manoeuvre from a feebler position.</p>

<p>Interlaced with the misinformation you have placed in this thread - you made many personal attacks questioning skill and experience – yet another one quoted above.</p>

<p>Indeed we have come to the point where most, if not all readers see what has been brought to the table here - and they will judge the quality and worth of it.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<blockquote>

<p> . . . while I FULLY understand the desire to help people and give them the best advice for their gear and shooting technique, don't you guys and girls think that, every now and then, we should preface that advice with a "don't"? . . . What do you think?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I agree. In the past I have done this - but this question was specific about gear and I answered that and made other comments about the best learning / training and camera functionality.<br>

Specifically about the gear I agree the kit set is inadequate and I wrote that in my first comment.<br>

I think the OP would glean from the number of comments about shooting weddings that he is likely under-prepared and under-skilled; and certainly under equipped and I think this is likely the case – yes.</p>

<p>WW </p>

<p>The OP has seemingly lost interest anyway, and seeing this is the Beginners forum not the best place to ask about shooting your first wedding.</p>

<p>Despite all of the good advice here, especially WW's, it would be nice to see an OP follow-up.</p>

<p>Also, I would offer to send the OP my Canon EOS quiz which covers EOS basics, photography basics, and similar to be taken as a closed-book quiz. If you can at least score 75% you should be well on your way. There are two more follow-on quizzes should you ace that one.</p>

<p>The EOS 1000D with kits lens and kit telezoom is not a wedding photo starting kit by any means.</p>

<p>And yes, still waiting to see "Morten's" portfolio, website, bio, or anything. Make me "eat my words." ;-)</p><div></div>

<blockquote>

<p>"I would offer to send the OP my Canon EOS quiz which covers EOS basics . . . etc"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's very generous. The OP should grab that offer with both hands. <br>

I had better shout you lunch, as well as those beers.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

<p>I'd be curious to see the quiz too, if you are happy to share it :) Is this something you use to test potential assistants Ken?</p>

<p>I just started talking about this EOS quiz earlier today on an EOS thread, "...What should I get next..." thing. A good friend of mine wants to upgrade so badly $$$ is burning a hole in his pocket so I setup the quiz for an early-intermediate level EOS shooter. There are 3 parts, increasingly more difficult. I designed the qiz for him, and now similar.</p>

<p>PREMISE: If you get only 50% on the quiz are you 'photog enough' (i.e., savvy) to warrant that upgrade from a 20D to a 50D or 7D or 5D2?</p>

<p>Harry--I have an EOS 3, and it's use of flash in Program mode is the same as the more current digitals. As Ben states above, one of Program mode's basic goals is to avoid blur from hand shake. With the flash on, at or above EV 13, it assumes you want fill; at or below EV10 (dimmer light), it assumes you want the flash to be the main source of light on your subject, and in either case, will not set a shutter speed below 1/60th--may times it chooses 1/125th. This should not result in 50% blurred images unless maybe you shot everything with telephotos and or got underexposed flash responses.</p>

<p>@ WW:</p>

<p>It is by no means "common practice" to allocate AF to "*". That would suggest that this is something MOST PEOPLE do. <br>

That may be true in your little corner of the world, but it certainly isn't the case everywhere. Some of us like our QCD and since most people have a pretty limited number of fingers on the back of the camera, assigning other vital functions to those fingers does not aid in speed and functionality.<br>

But perhaps you only shoot cameras that does not have such a thing? Or maybe you assign it's functions to a button on the left side? Since you obviously don't care about anything on that side of the camera, you should have a free hand.</p>

<p>In any case. This is useless. <br>

You clearly love shooting with training wheels, and that is perfectly OK. If that is your preference, by all means do it. My experience tells me that I can shoot faster and with more control, in other modes.<br>

Believe what you want and do what you want. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>And yes, still waiting to see "Morten's" portfolio, website, bio, or anything. Make me "eat my words." ;-)</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>What exactly are you hoping to see there? </p>

<p>1: My portfolio is a big leather bound thing currently sitting on my desk.<br>

I don't have a portfolio online for the simple reason that I don't have a sick need for approval from people like you. I feel no need to share my work with people I have no relationship with (personal or professional).</p>

<p>2: i have no need for a website. Mainly for the reasons stated above.</p>

<p>3: Bio? Not only are the details of my life and work none of your concern, it is also completely irrelevant. </p>

<p>Exactly what I thought Morten -- real stand up! Awesome. I figured there were maybe 1 or 2 people like you in the world virtually Web/Internet/content free. Awesome.</p>

<p>And I know WW can shoot rings/laps/frames around you in his sleep... LOL.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>It is by no means "common practice" to allocate AF to "*". That would suggest that this is something MOST PEOPLE do. That may be true <strong><em>in your little corner of the world, </em></strong>but it certainly isn't the case everywhere. Some of us like our QCD and since most people have a pretty limited number of fingers on the back of the camera, assigning other vital functions to those fingers does not aid in speed and functionality. But <em><strong>perhaps you only shoot cameras that does not have such a thing?</strong></em> Or maybe <strong><em>you assign it's functions to a button on the left side?</em></strong> Since <strong><em>you obviously don't care about anything on that side of the camera</em></strong>, you should have a free hand. In any case. This is useless. <strong><em>You clearly love shooting with training wheels</em></strong>, and that is perfectly OK. If that is your preference, by all means do it. My experience tells me that I can shoot faster and with more control, in other modes. Believe what you want and do what you want.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It is now becoming quite difficult to sort any reasonable and relevent content to the topic at hand, from the vitriol . . .</p>

<p>As to answering your question:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>3: <em><strong>Bio?</strong></em> Not only are the details of my life and work none of your concern, <strong><em>it is also completely irrelevant.</em></strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well - just maybe goes to "credibility"</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p>Yawn.<br>

WW</p>

<p>Ben did VERY well in the quiz and easily aced it -- Morten -- wanna give it a shot?<br>

Perfect chance for you. Seriously. Friendly too.</p>

<p><em>"Do you seriously base a persons credibility on a bio, that person has written on the internet? I will bet you everything I own, that at least 80% of all users on this site, have "polished" their bio to some extend."</em></p>

<p>Nope -- but you really are naive if you think that. LOL. Just get out and shoot some OK and post some too. The world will keep going 'round even without your incredibly awesome, leather-bound bio.</p>

<p><strong>Moderator note:</strong> Please review guidelines for the Beginner Photography Questions Forum. This forum is intended for patient mentoring of new photographers with basic questions. Folks who lack the patience to offer constructive help without sarcasm should probably avoid this forum.</p>

<p>My apologies to our veteran members who do consistently offer help in the spirit intended for this forum.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>This forum is intended to be used by beginners who have basic photographic questions. For the most part, these should be about photographic technique or theory. "What should I buy" type questions stand a good chance of being sent to a forum dealing with that specific sort of equipment. Critique requests should be made in the <a href="../photo-critique-forum/">Photo Critique forum</a>. </em><br>

<em> Rude or unhelpful posts will be deleted, and rude and unhelpful posters will be suspended from the forum. Threads that don't fit the "beginner" designation will be moved to a more appropriate forum. In short, this forum is much more tightly moderated than other Photo.net forums.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>forget the expense and get a mark 2 5d its just amazing!!<br />