gerber_van_der_graaf

<p>I'd look for a more modern system and a newer MF camera to reduce the risk of repair costs. Though in general I do not like very much fully electronic cameras, I really can recommend the Rollei 6008 system. Its a great system with beautifull lenses from Zeiss and Schneider. Its handling is easy and logic: only adjusting exposure time (if not in automatic), diaphragm (if not in automatic) and focus (if not in automatic for the 6008 AF). The cameras have an integrated measuring system for integral, spot and multi-spot and has motorized film advance. Thats all it does and you don't need more. Oh yeah, it has TTL flash at all exposure times (thanks to the central shutter in the lenses), in case you're interested in it.<br>

You can get a bit older lenses from the SL66 system (if I am not wrong) and from the 6008 system often for very low prizes (relatively speaking, regarding the prize tags for new) on the used market.<br>

The only drawback is that my bag containing three lenses is getting quite heavy now. But thats the prize you are paying if you want to have such marvelous MF slides and B/W photos.</p>

<p>Yes, I think you can get a good 2nd hand slide projector, especially when bought from a hobbyist. Then they are probably not too much used, typically after holidays or so. I have good experiences with the Rollei dual. Though, quite a bit expensive (Eu 800 to 1000 for a 2nd hand) they are of very good quality and can also be used for 135 slides. A cheaper alternative might be a Rolleivision 66, which only accepts 6x6 slides, but uses the same marvelous projection lenses. These are available for about EU 300 to 500.</p>

<p>When I looked for this scanner I found some comments on this site that the 8000 ED sometimes might suffer from 'ghost' images or reflections in areas of high contrast. This is probably due to some dust on the glass plate on the sensor or due to an insufficient anti-reflective coating. Some reported that cleaning the sensor solved this problem The reflection problem seems to be absent for the 9000 ED.<br>

Also I would like to comment that the 8000 ED seems to work well with the Free and Open Software program Sane (http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-NIKON), but the 9000ED is not. So you may scan images from within the different programs on a MS-WIN platform (Sane, Gimp and Openofffice, for example) and scanning with the 8000 will run on Linux systems as well.<br>

I think both scanners are the greatest desktop for MF and I am very happy with mine 9000. As already mentioned, the glass holder is worthwhile to consider.</p>

<p>I do not know this type of camera. But in case it does have an electronic release cable and an X-synchro contact (PC) your problem can probably solved by substituting the release button of the cable by a plug for the X-synchro. So, one camera (master) will give the syncronisation over the X-contact via the release cable to the other (slave).<br>

This works well with my two Rollei 6008i cameras, whether I will have to close the mirror of both cameras before releasing the shutter. Else it only works at very low shutter speeds and there is a long delay between master and slave.<br>

I have done the same for two Contax G2 cameras, which work fine as well in case the focussing of the slave camera is set.<br>

I use both synchronized cameras to get stereo slides for a three-dimensional effect.</p>

<p>With my Integral 2 and 80/2.8 Schneider objective I measuered the reading on a white wall, equally illuminated. The integral measurement gives me the same reading as spot and multi-spot readings. From the slides I have shot with this camera, in general the measurements seem to be quite correct.<br>

As shutter time and diaphragma opening can be adjusted with 1/3 stop, I hardly can believe the measuring is less accurate. Maybe the meter of your camera needs an adjustment?</p>

<p>I have build a new darkroom again one year ago after moving out to another home. I added some new equipment, like a Jobo processor, to develope my own chromes as it is done everytime fewer (and worse!) by the commercial labs in Spain. I do BW printing on RC and fiber paper (Ilford VC) with my Durst M805 and some Ilfochrome. Though Ilfochrome paper and chemicals are hard to find the here, as it is not imported to Spain anymore. I scan my chromes or negatives for previewing and sending to family and friends by email or putting them on the web (though very few). I like film and do not consider changing to digital. I am a hobbyist, so time is not really an issue to me. Additionalyy, I have the impression that people do not worry to wait a bit before getting their photos.</p>

Hi, I am trying here to reply on some comments from my previous post. Of course, I respect anyones opinion and it

is definitely not my intention to put a pun to somebody.

 

To Garrison K.:

No I did not read this off of a blog. Its just common sense. A company that already writes Operating Systems

since about 25 years and still has issues concerning stability and security, has, to my opinion, lost all its

credits. Stability has improved in XP quite a lot, indeed, but not sufficiently. Try to run you computer,

connected to the Internet, without a viruss canner. Because the OS sucks, you need to load your RAM memory and

CPU cycles with such a viruss canner. Using a good OS, there is no need for that and so you will use the CPU and

RAM for your own work.

 

To John Henneberger:

GNU/Linux, (Open)BSD and MAC OS-X are able to run most, if not all, Open Source programs like Gimp (image

manipulation) and Sane (for scanning). I am using only one propietary program, which is Vuescan, because Nikon

refuses to issue the communication protocol for the 9000 scanner to get it work properly in Sane. I do not know

if its by accident, but its the only program that regularly blows out on my GNU/Debian Linux system. Other Unixes

I mentioned in my previous post, though, do or did not have much software for a photog. I used these systems for

long running computer simulations, that have nothing to do with photography. However, I wanted to express that

these sytems are already a long time here, are of excellent quality and a few of them are now even free.

 

Concerning propietary formats and protocols to communicate with the hardware, like scanners, printers and

cameras: I hope they will become open or disappear. Only in that case it is possible that high-quality,

competitive programs will be written, instead of having a choice between one or two products that dominate the

market and condition its users. We, as photogs, should be very aware on that. Because it will hit us in the face,

sooner or later. For example by buying hardware that support open protocols (like OpenRaw) and insist to

manufacturers. I think this is a key item. Photos are often increasing in (emotional) value over time. You want

to have access to your images by the software of your choice at any time, now and after 20 years. Imagine a

company will stop its production or will change its format without giving backward compatibility to its products!

Then, your own photos you stored on a digital medium will be inaccessible in the future!

 

Its not my intention to spread any fear here, just to express my concerns. There are other ways to do it, better

ones. The control of the computer is given back to the user, where it belongs, by using Open Source Software and

its belonging open data formats.

 

Gerber

MS is promising a stable and secure Windows for its next release already since 3.1 (15 years ago!) or even

before. If MS is still not able to provide a stable release for Vista, they will never be able to do that. If you

still believe the next release will solve these problems, I think you're a bit, lets say, naive.

 

Look for an other OS, take GNU/Linux and get rid of these vendors lock-ins. Or, eventually, pick up a Mac OS-X at

least.

 

During my 20 years experiences of different Unix (like) systems (HP, SUN, BSD, GNU/Linux), stability was never

such a big issue. Maybe a specific applications crashes, but hardly never the entire OS. Just because Unix and

its dervatives are very well considered, modularized and configurable and has proven its philosophy already since

the '70-ties and '80-ties. Just my thought.

Since 13 years ago I changed my MS operating system for a GNU/Linux system and have never looked back to any other closed software solution again. The GIMP has grown up quite a lot, probably not sufficiently for professional use, yet. But the most important is the philosophy behind Free and Open Souscre Solution (FOSS): you will never be locked in by a specific hardware / software manufacturer, you can adapt or extend any software to your own needs and will not be limited to install the software on a single computer due to licence restrictions.

 

I sincerely hope that more photogs will use the FOSS and go after hardware manufactures of scanners and cameras to open the communication protocols of the hardware and closed format of the RAW image.

 

Just an opinion.

Gerber

Nikon sells a glass filmholder that will hold an entire negative or slide of 6x17, but it is quite expensive. As

already said, the limit is in the scanning software: you have to make two scans and glue them together.

 

Actually, I think that Nikon should publish the technical specs of the scanners in order to commumicate with it.

So we can write our own Open Source programs and adapt it to our own needs. It is unnecessary Nikon keeps these

protocols secret, it limits the possibilities of the scanner and only frustrates its users to force them closed

software solutions, with all its drawbacks of limited possibilities, security, unstability and vendor lock-in.

Ask Nikon to issue the protocol for this scanner. So, you can (ask an informatic to) write a scanner program or

adapt existing Open Source scanning software Sane. The Sane project is hold for this scanner (the 8000 seems to

work fine), because of the lack of information concerning the communication protocol, If we, as photogs, will

insist often to Nikon, hopefully they will change their mind, once.

 

Gerber

I am using two G2 cameras that are mounted on a aluminium bar side by side for stereo photography. I choose this

camera because of its fast and reliable triggering using the X flash contact. Focussing and speed/diaphragma

adjusting for two cameras is too comlicated for doing it manually. Additioanlly, the lenses I use, the 45mm and

28mm, are top quality. Thats why I preferred the G2. Unfortunately, sometimes the shutter (of one of the cameras)

refuses when it is unable to focus. Also, I would like have seen that the switches are more robust and do not

change its settings so easely: I always have to check if none of the settings of both cameras haven´t been

changed when taking the cameras out of the bag. In general the cameras work fine and the results of the stereo

slides are beautifull. I use this set mainly for landscape, architecture and street photography. But actually I

do no like

much all the elñectronics and noisy, motorized, film advance / focussing mechanism for normal photograpphy. For

that, I prefer the Leica M6

which also gives me a feeling of having more control.

Some time ago I picked up this tube from eBay for about EU 70 for my 6008 Integral. On the tube it says: Rollei ET 9 System Rolleiflex 6000. It works fine with my PQ(S) lenses. Also the 17 mm tube (nothing is written down on it) all PQ lenses works fine and report correctly the information (time settings, diaphragma aperture etc) in the viewer. So I think they are all fine for the 6000 system. About SLX I don't know.

 

Gerber

This is a very good question and hard to answer. I am shooting Leica R and M. Last year I added a Rollei 600x for

shooting landsacape slides. When looking at the slides through a good magnifier or when projecting them, they

really have a lot of detail. But I like the quality and character of the Leica lenses slightly more. If mostly

you don't make enlargements larger then 13x19, I'll choose for the Leica gear. As its weight is also much less,

you will take it outdoors more often. But the day you have an opportunity to shoot a photo which really demands

for a very big enlargement, you''ll regret you had left home your MF gear. As Ansel Adams wrote: take with you as

much gear you can.

 

My experiences is that if I am going out to shoot landscapes, I'll go for the MF, else I'll take the Leica.

About 13 years ago I moved out from the Olympus OM system to a Leica RE, which I later changed for a R6.2. I love that camera and I did not really need a new one. However, when shooting and using this camera I just started to like the view of an M6 TTL and was curious how it feels to work with a rangefinder. So I bought a M6 TTL 0.85 and started shooting more and more with it, leaving the R6.2 at home. Now I would like to add a silver M6TTL 0.58, because its a beautifull camera and I will use it with the summilux 24 ASPH. To me the R6.2 still is a very nice camera and more versatile for use with tele lenses and macro.

I am using the rollei 6008 Int. now since about a year and bought a used Planar 80/2.8 PQ and later a Xenotar

80/2.8 PQS. Indeed, my Planar also has a very minor play, but the Xenotar has not. I hardly don't feel it, but I

can hear it. As it is a used lens, I cannot say whether its due to design or wear. I am not worried about the

play as it is that minimum I do not think it will affect the optical performance of the lens.

 

Gerber

I think this is the right moment to start with MF when you are a photographer who loves film. Prices of equipment

are very low now. Last year I bought a Rolleiflex 6008 Integral and three lenses (50, 80 and 150mm) for very

reasonable prices. In Spain, I even can't get 135 slide film anymore from the local shops in the small, remote,

town where I am living, But going to professional shops in Barcelona (1 hour driving) there is always 135 and MF

film in stock. Prices for developing of MF slides by a large laboratory here increased from EU 6 to EU 17, takes

almost two weeks and I got the slides back dirty and wrongly packed in the plastic sleeves. So now I am

developing my slides by myself. It is not difficult and the slides look beautifull without any colour cast. But

you will have to invest in a good (drum) processor, like the JOBO CPP2 for maintaining accurate temperatures.

Besides, it is fun to have full controll over the entire process for getting your slides.

A. I mainly use my M6TTL and R6.2 for colour photos and B/W. For landscape slides I use the Rollei 6008. Eventually I scan the photos and slides with a Nikon coolscan to put them on the web or send them by email. I prefer analog because of its quality and I like to do some laboratory work instead of spending even more time behind the screen for my hobby, as I am spending already too much for my profession.

I definitely did not want to start a flame war here :) My Olympus OM2n bodies became a bit old and occasionaly left me down. Sometimes just on those critic and unique moments. So I decided to look for a new, robust and reliable camera with the best optics I could afford now, that wouldn't let me down during a journey or a moment that will never come back... Same as the OM cameras did for me during many years. Again, the OM system was, and still is, a great system that deserves its place and I like it to grasp so now and than.

I enjoy very much to read here that the OM system still has so many enthousiastic users. Among some of them are even younger than the camera itself. Indicating that the OM system has become a legendary!

 

Here are some of my personal experiences with this nice equipment. I started photographing in 1974, 14 years old at that time. After three months using my fathers Agfa 6x6 camera and making contact prints in my 'darkroom', I spent all my money I had on a SLR. It was a Practica, the only one I could afford at that time. The dutch photo magazine 'Focus' I had a subscription on, tested the Olympus OM1 and OM2. It was the only camera test from this magazine since ever there was not a single negative point of critics! Only a minor complain about the pricing, but what would you expect for a professional camera? This was the camera I wanted to have! No, I needed it! I did not accept a lesser one! It took me seven long years before I finally could afford the OM2n, thanks to a gift of my grandfather.

 

I have been using that camera during eight years while biking and mountaineering in the Alps, for social events or landscape photographing everywhere I came. Until it broke as it dropped (together with me) into a mud pool while walking on sand banks on sea to one of the northern islands of the Netherlands. Though the production of the OM2n was stopped, fortunately I still could find a new body. Together with a second, used, body I have been using the OM2n during 15 more years. Applying it for my PhD research when measuring fluid flows with tracer particles in the lab, taking computer screen shots of flow simulations for conferences and journal articles and for my thesis. I also used the cameras for stereo photographing by mounting them on a plate side by side and synchronizing the winders. This is very easy to do and I got marvelous 3-dimensional slides out of it.

 

Now, over the years the cameras have been worn out a bit and sometimes fail. As I also found the optical quality a bit limited, I have moved out to the Leica R and M systems. But when holding the OM2, I still appreciate this small, great camera of excellent design. It still can compete with cameras of this time. Its large viewer is comparable to the brightness of the Leica M and you don't have the feeling you are looking through a tunnel but have the experience the object is right in front of you. I also admire the large knobs and the typical dial ring for the shutter speed around the lens mount. One minor point, to my feeling, is the body height. It seems it is not as stable in my hands like the other cameras I am using. Though the camera is weared and I am using other equipment now, I do not consider to sell it. While the market value is very low for the OM2, the camera is too worthfull to me. After so many years of photographing with it under such different circumstances, I've got an emotional band with it. Maybe one day it will be the first analog camera of my son or daughter? Something I was dreaming of during so many years!

As a user of Leica R and M systems I really can recommend both, depending on what you are shooting and personal preferences. The quality, optically as well as mechanically is great. Something what I cannot say of other, high quality, cameras: I got two used Contax G2 cameras, both of which a switch was broken or malfunctioning. Such an experience I never had with one of my Leica systems (M6 TTL, R6.2 and two R7's.) If you prefer an M, the M6 TTL is a very good choice: its relatively new, compared to the other M6 and I like the large shutter speed dial. This dial goes the other direction around then the older M6: turning left for faster speeds. Many photogs who are used the older M's complain this difference in direction. But if you are new to Leica M, its very logic to work with. As a starting lens, a 35mm Summicron ASPH might be the best choice.

 

Unfortunately, you have to watch out when buying on eBay. Check if the seller has got positive feedback RECENTLY, if there is PayPal/eBay guarantee (until a max of EU 1000,-), check the sellers identity and if (s)he is REALLY the seller of the camera or lens. Do this checking outside of the eBay system by direct email or, even better, make a phone call. I recently bought an Elmarit 24mm at eBay and payed by direct money transfer of almost EU 1400,-. The lens never arrived as it turned out the account of an eBay user had been broken in. The eBay system does not cover this robery, they just send you a mail the account has been abused and you are on your own. In contrast to another post, I'd recommend a 'power seller' with verified adress. I recently called one by phone but got his answering machine. Next day he called back by himself (international phone call within EU) to validate his identity as the seller. Even in case of such a 'power seller', it might be cheaper to buy than at a normal shop. At least, the market at the Internet is more transpararent, but there is a risk you have to minimize by yourself.

 

Hope this helped you a bit. Gerber van der Graaf

Consider to move out to the GNU/Linux OS: its definitely more stable, reliable and faster, doesn't need virus scanners, reads/writes much less to the Harddisk (so your HD will last longer) and is quite userfriendly when installing and using nowadays. A good and popular distro is Ubuntu, but Debian rocks concerning reliablity and stability, though uses slightly older software as they do not release a new distro beacause of marketing issues. A drawback of GNU/Linux is that not every electronics manufacturer publishes the required information for writing the driver software (like Nikon scanners). But concerning this, Windows Vista also seems to lack many (printer) drivers for your periferies as well.

 

GNU/Linux has given back the control to the user over the entire system; you can explore, change and extend any part of the software, which is the best guarantee for getting reliable and good working software. This is the most strong point of it.

Gepe is making a small light table with a 3x magnifier, called G5003. The lupe is very simple and not corrected for chromatic abberations, but works fine for viewing the slides.

http://www.gepe.com/website/index.asp?pageID=287

What I forgot to tell is how I started with a cheaper setup some years ago. My first attempt was with a pair of Olympus OM2n cameras that were mounted on a winder-2. Both winders were connected electrically (the winder has a simple 3 mm 2-pole female contact aside the release button). Trigerring went excellent and the slave camera did not have to be activated or so. Just adjusting exposure time / diaphragm and focussing. Sometimes the line was connected too loose resulting into spontanic firing of both cameras. After renewing the connectors, the problem was solved. I mainly left this setup as the cameras grew old and I preferred better optics. This might be a good, cheaper suggestion, especially as these cameras are now available for reasonable prices at the second hand market.

I have been trying to shoot stereo slides with a double camera setup. An important aspect to me is the quality of the images, so I only tried with the better objectives / cameras. Therefore, the cameras were mounted on an aluminium bar, 225 x 25 x 7 mm, with threaded holes at the centre (for mounting on a tripod) and two at its both ends with 15 mm distance in-between. So, the cameras could be mounted with distances of 145, 160 or 175 mm.

 

The cameras I tried were synchronized electronically. The 'master' camera connected to the X-contact and the slave to the release contact. I have tried different cameras. Here are my experiences:

 

-Two Leica's R7 with a 35-70 mm zoom. The cameras were mounted on a motor drive with distance of 175 mm to allow film loading and changing batteries of the motordrive. Synchronization worked quite well up to 1/60 s. At higher shutter speeds the X-contact is closed too short in order to trigger the slave camera. I also tried to connect the release cable to the release button of the motordrive of the master instead of the X-contact. This worked better for all shutterspeeds, but often the electronics failed resulting into a missing stereo pair or the slave camera continued on firing until the film was finished or the motor was shut off by pulling out the manual transport handle. At exposure times longer than 0.5 s the slave camera will have to be activated by pressing its release button half way. When after some time the meter shuts off, the slave camera will not work.

I left this setup as it seemed to be unreliable and gave many missing stereo pairs. Besides, this combination is a heavy load and not a pleasure to take when hiking in mountains or sightseeing towns.

 

-Two Contax G2 with 45 mm objectives. The cameras are mounted with distance of 160 mm. This allows all handling, including film loading, (except changing batteries). Synchronization works very well at all shutter speeds (up to 1/6000 s!). The slave camera will have to be activated before shooting as well. As this camera has autofocus that will be activated just before the shutter goes off, there is quite some delay between master and slave (about 0.5 s). This delay is reduced to about 0.1 s by first pointing the slave camera and activating its autofocus and autoexposure (by pressing AND holding its release button halfway) and than pointing and releasing the master camera. This also gives an optimum control of focussing and exposure time for both cameras. The delay between the firing of both cameras is acceptable when photographing an object which is not moving too fast. With this setup I did not miss any photos: the electroncs work fine. Its weight is acceptable and the setup is easy to work with. I think this is a good way to go for getting high-quality 35 mm stereo slides. I am considering a pair of 28 mm (and maybe later also 35 mm) objectives as the 45 mm are slightly too long under many circumstances.

 

-Two Rolleiflex 6008i systems mounted with an 80 mm objective. Syncronization works very well at all shutter speeds if the mirror of the slave camera has been locked up shortly before exposure. (Which you should do anyway for both cameras to get sharp photos.) This setup allows to mount the cameras at only (surprise!) 145 mm from each other when the lateral grip of the left (slave) camera is removed. The use is surprisingly uncomplicated with this setup. I don't have used this combination much yet, but it looks very promising if you don't have to carry it with you all the day. Though this setup is slightly heavier than the Leica R7, you get astonishing MF 6x6 stereo pairs.

In general I would prefer the newer 9000 because of the absent of eventually banding problems. Though, we are only using Opens Source Software, like Linux, here. The 8000 is supported by the Sane software (http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-NIKON), but the 9000 is not. Does anybody know if the _driver_ software for Windows and /or Mac for the 9000 is identic to the 8000? This will help us to adapt this driver for the 9000.

 

Nikon are you listening? At least, publish the driver specs for let us writing a driver program for the 9000. Else, you definitely will loose market!