terry_stedman

I found this on the USPS website <a href="http://www.usps.com/news/facts/lfu_012902.htm">here</a>:

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"The FDA has extensively evaluated the safety of irradiation and found that using irradiation destroys disease-causing germs. Dangerous substances are not created. Irradiation can adversely affect some mailable products, such as biological samples, diagnostic kits, photographic film, food, eyeglasses and contact lenses. Electronic devices would likely be rendered inoperable and drugs and medicines also can be affected."

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Kodak, <a href="http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/xrays_airport.jhtml">here</a> says:

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"The United States Postal Service is installing new equipment to sterilize items sent through the mail. For security reasons, they are not disclosing whether this process will be limited to letters, or if parcels and other packages will also be included.

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Until further tests are conducted, it would be wise to assume that the high energy beams used in the sterilization equipment will fog or damage all film - processed or unprocessed, exposed or unexposed, negative or print. In addition, photographic prints, slides, DVDs, picture CDs, CD-ROMs, video tapes and even the CCD sensors in video cameras and other products may be affected. Because those materials often contain valuable - and sometimes, irreplaceable, images - Kodak recommends that you err on the side of caution until more information is available.

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All imaging materials should be sent via a courier or an express air shipping company that does not use the US postal system. Local laboratories may have additional information and/or offer alternative shipping arrangements."

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So, they seem to think you should avoid USPS for sending film. Since so many people use mailers just fine, I assume they don't sanitize small envelopes, or envelopes that are obviously film mailers. I have recieved several packages of expired film from people off ebay, without there being any markings on the package that it included film. None of it has gone over the border, however. I can't remember what mailing service it used; I think it was UPS, not USPS.

That thing is really confusion until you realize that its just an indicator of what you have in focus at the moment. Play with it for five minutes and you'll understand. All the lines are the different lenses, from 360 to 60. As you move the bellows out, you math the line for your lens with the scale - in meters and feet - on the body right next to it. its not to useful with the 50 or 65 lenses since those lenses have such steep curves on the plate, but if you look at the 127 lens line, it gives a good example. Theres a ruler on the top of the plate with milimeters. Move the bellows 10 milimeters from the body. The 127 line will be at right about 6 feet. That means that an obect 6 feet away is in focus. If you move the bellows out to 20mm from the body, the 127 line is at 3.5 feet, so again an object 3.5 feet away would be in focus. This is really just the same as what is on the lenses of most other cameras, which have a little thing next to the focusing ring that shows what distance is in focus. However, since RB lenses don't have a focusing ring, they don't have it; instead, the focusing is done with the bellows, which is on the body, and thats where the focusing meter (or whatever you want to call it) is.

 

If anybody out there can tell me what the "step" thing at the bottom is, I'd be grateful. Do they mean "stop"? as in, the exposure correction for bellows length?

I encourage you to go to the website and check out the pictures of the ruined images. Its pretty scary and I never want it to happen to me. However, those images, and most of what they say on the page, are about the luggage scanners. About carry-on baggage, which you get to see roll through the scanner, they say it can survive multiple passes - up to five - just fine. I bet X-rays have a cumulative effect on undeveloped film, and after the fifth passage through the scanner, it only then begins to possibly be visible. And I bet there are a lot of variables, like power-levels, and so on. So, I don't think its a myth to say that if you're travelling a lot -as in, at least five different airports- then its best to get your film hand-inspected.

Of course, aperture has an r in it. silly me.

No. Apeture measurement is how many times the width of the "hole" it takes to reach from the hole to the film plane. So, F/8 means that the film plane is 8 times what the width of the hole is. This means its scalable from subminature cameras up to gigantic view cameras. I imagine f/8 is "best" due to some laws of physics, not just chance. This is also why only fixed lenses of short focal length (like, 50mm) can have such huge apetures as 1.4, as the hole is very close to the film; and likewise, zoom lenses are often slower than fixed lenses because due to the nature of the beast (I remember hearing they often have up to 16 elements) the apeture hole has to be somewhat far away form the film plane.

 

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I posted this on a different thread, but I think this is a good place to repost it. Kodak has done studies of the effects of X-raying, and the effect on film in checked baggage is frightening. It will ruin your film in one pass. The page about it, which has pictures and examples, is <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml">here</a>. They have a less informative page without pictures <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis98/cis98.jhtml">here</a>.

Some interesting bits include that underexposed film is more vulnerable to X-rays, and pushing film exaggerates its effects. Since the fogging is usually in a pattern, it can't be compensated for while printing.

I just checked; there are seals on the adapter. Anyway, the argument is silly: rather than see if you can find a hole in the back\adapter, just shoot a test roll (like you should anyway when getting a used camera) and see if there are any light leaks.

Macman, you may want to look at <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml">this</a> and <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis98/cis98.jhtml"> this</a>.

Thanks Ron, I guess I am the dunce. That article helped immensely. I think you should continue as you planned, and I know I'll follow along at the ebst of my ability.

Ron,

 

I have to agree with Joe and not Michael. I'm really interested in learning about color film, but I feel like I just jumped into calculus 2 without taking calc 1. It would help me - and I hope I'm not the class dunce! - if you could either take a step back and do a quick overview explaining the color process (as in, how silver and dyes and light and developer end up forming an image on the neg), or if you could point me to some website that does the same.

 

Thanks!

The number one thing everyone is going to tell you is weight. I hope you have a strong, sturdy tripod! You can use the RB handheld, but it takes getting used to. A grip, I hear, goes a long way when using it handheld. If you're gunna use a tripod, if its anything less than perfectly stable you'll need a cable release, preferably the "mirror up" version. This prevents mirror slap which can be an awesome thing on an RB.

 

I think the "worst" thing about my RB67 is that I want to spend hundreds of dollars getting stuff for it - another back, a 180mm lens, a 65mm lens, a better tripod, the mirror up lease, a grip, etc. I have a hard time not constantly checking KEH or Ebay for prices on a 180 lens, which is like a siren that calls to me, and would cause my checkbook to hit the rocks and capsize.

 

The RB67 is a great camera. Hopefully it will last you decades. Good luck!

Hello everybody,

 

I've searched through the archives and across the internet about this,

but haven't been able to find a definate answer. What kind of strap

goes with a C220 Professional-F camera? I've heard rumors that a

Mamiya 645 strap fits on the knob-like things on the C220F. The strap

holders for the C220f have round "flanges" (I guess is the way to

describe them) with a round supporting narrow rod (compared to the

Rb67, which has a square rod). Sorry if thats a weak description.

Anyway, do the mamiya 645's have a similiar knob thing? and, which

type of 645 - manual, automatic, both? And, does the clip from the

strap hold well?

 

Thanks for your time!

I use Penn camera to develop my film while I'm away from a darkroom. They arn't a dedicated pro store, its true, but they arn't a crappy consumer store like ritz. I would describe them as "prosumer", and yes, they develop roll film just fine. Sometimes they have MF or even LF new or used gear for sale. So far, they haven't screwed up any of my stuff, which is a lot better than Wolf camera can say.

Thanks everyone for all the contributions. Luckily, I don't have to make that decision yet. I think I may opt to experiment and see what everyone likes best. I think the number one thing I've learned from this thread is: One Shot Developer Only!

 

DK - My school is New College of Florida, which is public. However, its so small and non-institutional that I doubt our business manager is aware of any such contract system. However, its good to know about that possibility.

Jonathan,

 

I know your post was a parody. I thought it was pretty funny too. I can't help but think my RB would be lighter if it were made of cheese. On the other hand, I'm afraid people might take this thread to seriously, and somehow remove questions about which medium format camera is best for what, then they are at the same time removing a large chunk of the traffic on this forum, which in my mind would be a bad thing.

"...I shoot mainly macro shots of people sleeping..."

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Creepy

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On the other hand, imagine how barren this forum would be without such posts. Consider the latest ten posts (paraphrased):

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"how much better are rolleiflex lenses over yashica lens"

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"help me choose an MF scanner"

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"can rolleis use a polaroid back"

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"want to know if a bronica RF645 is for me"

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"negs look ugly"<P>

"how much is this used camera worth"<P>

"how well does my camera work with flash"<P>

"what size screen fits my camera"<P>

"I want to gripe about people asking dumb, repetitive questions"<P>

"which camera do I choose"<P>

 

If everything everyone has said so far was a strict rule, not a damn one of these, excepting maybe the ninth (afterall, present post excluded) would be here. If we followed such 90% exclusion rules, this forum would wither up and die (check out the brownie forum).

I've gotten a lot of great deals on film off ebay. Its always a risk, though, since you can't verify that the film has in fact been refridgerated. However, if you buy a whole bunch of film from one guy, I don't see a reason to dispute that the person is in fact a pro switching to digital. If the film has been refridgerated, then it'll last at least a few years past the experation date.

 

As for your disposable camera - I understand that once film has been exposed, it should be developed as soon as possible. The light reaction on the film deteriorates a lot faster than the unexposed emulsion. This is probably more true on the kinds of films that are in disposable cameras than higher quality films.

I've used my RB67 - quite a bit heavier than the C220, which i've also handled - and I have to say that its no big problem lugging it around. The bigger problem was hand holding it without my hand shaking - I hear that a grip will fix that problem. The only way to know if it will be a problem with you is to try it out yourself.

 

I commend you for wanting to get a KL lens, but bear in mind that you can buy 3 older lenses for the price of a KL.

 

I'd suggest going with the RB67, but also think about getting a tripod. A good, solid tripod with a ball head. Right now, thats what I'm lacking in my set up - believe me, a cheap tripod will not work with such heavy cameras!

I would definately say that "most bang for the buck" is a Mamiya TLR. They're cheap used (hey, you can only get them used), and they have a bunch of cheap interchangable lenses. You could probably buy a C330f plus every lens there is for it for under the cost of a new Rollei 6008 body.

My girlfriend has the older joystick 222. She uses it regularly with her Mamiya C220, and it holds just fine. She uses it for nightshots, so that camera is held tight for up to ten minutes at a time. I heard about how it wasn't any good with heavier cameras, so I tried putting my RB67 (the heaviest non-view camera there is) on it, and it held just fine, even at crazy angles. I'd need a cable release, of course, but that's to be expected with any tripod. Concievably, a bigger, longer lens than the 90mm I had on my RB might be to much for it, but mainly because that would move the center of weight further away from the locking plate.

Thanks Jim for the link. I remember reading that and getting some insight on how to approach things.

 

However, I'd like to illustrate how that situation is different from mine, because I think people are seeing "college darkroom" and making assumptions based on that:

 

1) There won't be a professor/teacher/authority figure - Just me, the guy who runs the darkroom. This has several important implications. I don't necessarily know more about photography than the people using the darkroom, I'm not necessarily a "better" artist/photographer than them, and I'm not going to be able to dictate which papers or films they use (except suggest what works best), and I'm not going to have a teacher-student relationship with them.

 

2) I bet that darkroom sees more than 30 people a day. To to give you an idea of how often I expect my darkroom to be used, if you have a home darkroom that you use every other day for about five hours at a time... at the highest end of my expectation and planning, my darkroom will be used 10 times as much, and its probably more like 10 different people a week.

 

3) I mentioned this above, but again, my darkroom isn't for education so much as letting people with a photography hobby have a place to do their hobby. I'd like to help people develop an interest in photography, which means brand-new users will be using the darkroom, but I bet that most of the darkroom's use will be by more experienced people.

 

4) My college isn't going to pay for chemicals at all. So, in addition to having a system thats easy, it really needs to be cost effective as well. I really wouldn't mind mixing from scratch a no-brand developer provided: it's acceptable with most films, it's cheap, and at most I have to mix it once a week.

Thanks everyone for the responses.

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Let me run by you the idea I had for handling film development based on my experiences in highschool. The teacher mixed up the chems every once in a while (I have no idea how often - I guess whenever supply ran low), and had them stored in jugs like <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=43195&is=REG">this</a>, and when student was going to develop film, he just poured, through the stopper, the chems into a plastic graduate - 8 ounces per tank, and no further mixing or dilution required - and from the graduate into a plastic cup (so that others could use the graduate). Then he'd start the process for film, pouring developer and stop bath down the drain afterwords, and fixer into a separate tank. So, one-shot with everything but the fixer.

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Now, I don't know how to judge what I did in highschool, since my teacher there wasn't exactly top notch (I thought I had invented dodging and burning - he sure never told us about it!). I think its probably the most convient for everybody - darkroom users don't have to mix chemicals, and the guy in charge only has to mix them every once in a while. So, unless this is a bad system (and I'd like to hear what you think of it), I'd like to hear which developer everyone thinks is a good combination of price, working solution longevity, and compatibility with films. Bear in mind that if I -and not the students- am mixing the chems, up to the working solution, it doesn't matter how tricky the mixing is - which is why I've been thinking about mixing the chems from scratch.

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Everybody seems to recommend skipping stop bath for the film - I hadn't realized it was so unpopular.

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I'd like to clear up what might be a few misconceptions. This is a student-run-and-funded darkroom, meaning: no classes are associated with it. We don't even have a photography professor at my college. Mostly, the darkroom would be used by students with independent photography projects, and people who just enjoy working in a darkroom. Of necessity, I'm going to have some kind of how-to-use-the-darkroom clinic so that students who have never done it before know what to do, but the darkroom isn't really for education; its for recreation or independent projects. Of course, the fees students pay to use the darkroom would only go to paying chemicals and equipment - film and paper is their responsibility. I imagine that some of the advanced users will eschew the fee-provided chemicals at least for film development and make their own.

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I'm trying to get an electronic card-lock set up on the door (that's the amazing thing about my college - they won't pay for chems but will pay 3000 bucks on a fancy card-swipe system) so that I can restrict who can go in the darkroom and when they can go in. This would mean that basic users - who I wouldn't trust to mix chems on their own - will only be able to go in during certain hours, during which I can either supervise or at least set up for them ahead of time.

Hello everyone,

 

I've been enjoying photo.net for a while now, as I've found it to be a

great place to hear the opinions of experts and expert-level amateurs.

I have a somewhat long post here, so bare with me.

 

Come August, I'm going to be putting together a darkroom for my

college. Its a tiny college, less than 700 people, and mainly focused

on nat-sci and social sciences. However, there has been some demand

for a darkroom, and so funding was allocated for turning a room in the

student center into a darkroom. The equipment has all been ordered,

and construction is almost complete, and since I'm the one who

volunteered to do all the research into what to get, I've been charged

with setting it up and running it. The school funded construction,

but isn't going to pay for its use, so from now on, I have to be as

thrifty as possible. Furthermore, the darkroom is pretty small, and I

only ordered four enlargers, so there may be crowding, or more demand

than supply, so to speak. I'm guessing at most 30 people will be

interested in using the lab a month.

 

Now, here's the part where I'm asking for advise. I'm not sure what

chemicals to use. I'm especially worried about which developer. I

need something thats cheap, thats good for as many different

films/papers as possible, and that I can mix up as a working solution

once a week/month/every-once-in-a-while and leave out in bins for

people to use to develop film, and pour into trays to develop paper.

 

I'd also like such advise about fixer, stop bath, permawash, and

photoflo. I figure I need both stop and permawash because its easier

for beginners, and to speed people through the process (I want to

avoid lines!). I know that stop bath is just diluted vinegar. Whats

the cheapest way to get it? Buy bulk vinegar? or can it be obtained

cheaply in a more highly concentrated form?

 

I've been thinking about hand-mixing the chemicals. Will this be a

significant savings? Or is it not worth the trouble in a

gang-darkroom situation?

 

Another question is disposal. Whats the best way to get rid of all

this stuff? I remember hearing about mixing the developer with stop

bath, then pouring it down the drain. Also, fixer can be poured down

the drain if you leave it in a bucket with steel wool for a few days.

Am I getting this right?

 

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions and experiences. In

addition to stuff about chems, if you have any advise about any aspect

of running a lab for both experienced users and brand-new beginners,

let me know!

 

Thanks,

I think that was my personal desire for a 180mm lens slipping out. It may only be $189 bucks, but thats more than a starving college student like me can afford. Even though I really really want one.

I disagree with Jay. The cheapest complete rb body is 94 bucks; the cheapest complete pro-s body is 115. The cheapest pro back is 45, the cheapest pro-s back is 65. Since the lenses are the same on both, the cheapest is 144 for a 127mm (Prices really jumped since the last time I saw them! some one must be gobbling up the cheap 90mm lenses), you have: 94 + 45 + 144 = 283 (which is cheaper than the cheapest kit cost by about 15 bucks) vs. 115 + 65 +144 = 324 (which is cheaper than the cheapest kit by about 70 bucks).

 

So you save 40 dollars by buying a much older camera body and back, that has less features to boot. I bet the older RB's are more in need of a CLA or soon to be in need of outright repair than the pro-s. In other words, I consider getting a Pro more of a risk than a Pro-S; and since you arn't saving as much money as you might think...

 

Also, skimp out on the body and back, but not on the lens. Don't get that $144 127; spend a bit more on the $189 180mm C (engraved) - its a better lens, and only costs 45 bucks more.