matthew_stanton2

It turns out the blix was the culprit. I did a litmus test and the ph was around 8, way too

alkaline. I dumped the blix and mixed a new tank and things now look great with both fuji

and kodak paper. I guess there must be too much developer carry through into the blix

because we have no squeegees installed. i guess i will just up the replenishment rate and

look at getting squeegees fitted in the future.

Thanks,

Matthew

The paper has been from a number of different packets of supra endura, I have put

unexposed pieces through the machine staight out of the pack in complete darkness. The

thing is that even from the same pack sometimes the cast will be stronger or weaker but it

is always there, the whites dont seem clean like the fuji's .

I thought it could be that there could have been some contamination in the developer

from the blix that the kodak was more sensitive to than the fuji.

My other guess was that it could be due to insufficient wash or poor wash water quality ie

maybe algae formation in the bath but once again the fuji seems pretty good.

To entend the wash time means to also extend the dev and blix time also so my only real

option to improve the wash is water temp which i am reluctant to take above 40 degrees c.

Any further ideas?

At the art college where I am technician/ Lecturer we are having problems with kodak supra endura

producing a greyish cast in the whites. We have no such problems with the fuji crystal archive. Does

anyone have any idea what could be causing the problem? The Kodak stock is generally fresh but any

thing older than 5 months also seems to have a yellowish grey cast in the whites.

We use an old 30" ESPA GRAF roller transport machine and agfa AP94 ra4 chemistry

Developer 35 degrees 45 secs

BLIX 35 degrees 45 secs

Wash 35 degrees 2 minutes ( single bath with reasonable flow rate )

Drier 50 degrees 45 secs

Would anyone have any idea?

Thanks,

Matthew Stanton

I believe you can measure the foot speed of a chromogenic

negative film using sensitometry just as effectively as you can

measure Silver based B&W films. This has nothing to do with

development . It is often stated that the real film speed of

professional C41 films is lower than the box speed whish is why

pany rate Portra 160nc at EI:100 and NPH (older version ) at

EI: 250. I would not be surprised if the real foot speed of XP2

was a little lower than what it says on the box but I have never

bothered testing it. It is only really relevant doing these tests

based around your own equipment, not using someone elses

figures.

I have tried this film in Rodinal (1:50), Calbe A49 (1:1) and

Pyrocat-HD ( 1:1:100). It is the same film as Efke 100. I wasn't

that impressed with it in Rodinal, it was excessively grainy for

35mm, more so than Tri-x in Rodinal. Calbe A49 1:1 was nice

and this developer is much more similar to Xtol than Rodinal.

I found the film speed in these various developers to be around

EI:50-64. As far as processing goes I would do successive clip

tests off a roll until you get the contrast you want. The processing

time in A49 1:1 was around 8-9 minutes at EI: 50 @ 20 degrees.

With Xtol 1:1 I would expect a shorter time ( maybe 6-7minutes

as a starting point ) and a slightly higher EI (around 64-80).

I agree that there is something unique about the tonality that is

produced by apx-100 & 400. I personally find the tonality more

satisfying for portraits than ilford fp4+ & hp5+. There is a

beautiful look that these films produce on skin tones that could

be partially related to spectral sensitivity. I find efke 25 and

fortepan 200 to have similar characteristics. I dont know exactly

why but I find the tonality of these films seems to subtly enhance

the emotional impact of a successful image.

I have tried Calbe A49 with Efke 100 in 35mm but I diluted it 1:1

as a one shot. Like Atomal FF there is a big loss of speed when

it is used undiluted. Diluting 1:1 you get better speed, better

sharpness and still retain remarkably fine grain (must be the

ppd). If you were intending to reuse the stock solution I would

expect it to have a capacity similar to that of D76 stock.

Atomal FF ( before it's discontinuance ) came with a replenisher

and with replenishment a 5 litre batch would keep going for

years.

Try Pryrocat-HD instead of PMK it has a brown coloured stain

which doesnt cause the flat highlights PMK seems to give with

VC paper. Grain is finer, speed seems almost half a stop higher

with some films and the stain is just as strong as PMK.

I recomment trying Fp4+ , Fortepan 200 or Hp5+ for the best

staining effect.

D-76 is fine with apx 400, I would probably use it undiluted &

make sure it is fresh ( After a few weeks it starts to increase

activity). The main issue with apx 400 is that it does not like

overdevelopment, nor does it like excessive agitation. I would

target your negs to print on grade 3 paper to keep grain

moderate. As Dan said Xtol Stock is probably even better than

d-76 for getting EI:320 and finer grain.

Mikael,

I think that Agfa discontinued Atomal not too long ago but Calbe

A49 is made to the original formula by Calbe, the old East

German division of Agfa. I live in Australia but started ordering

the developer from J& C photo in the U.S. when I discovered that

Atomal was discontinued. I believe that Fotoimpex in Germany

also sell this developer by mail-order. http://www.fotoimpex.de/

Here is the J&C photo page

http://www.jandcphotography.com/Developers.htm

This developer also works very well if you want EI 320 but then it

should be used undiluted for around 11 minutes @ 20 degrees.

Of course shadow detail will be less but grain will still be very

fine and even. I find the tonality with this combination is beautiful

& unique. Well worth a try if you are so inclined. I say all this

having tried 35mm APX- 400 in D-76, Perceptol & Rodinal and

would say the difference is quite noticable.

All the best.

Matt

A few tips for using apx 400& rodinal.

- Rate the film at around EI:200.

- Use a dilution no stronger than 1:50

- Use distilled water if possible to mix the developer.

- Use a plain water stop bath not an acid one. Acid stops with

rodinal cause excessive grain clumping in my experience,

probably something to do with rodinal being such an alkaline

developer.

- Always use gentle agitation ie: 4 inversions over 10seconds

per minute.

- Be wary of Agfa's processing times they are usually too long for

good quality 35mm negs. Try around 9 minutes 1:50 for @ EI

200 @ 20 degrees celcius as a starting point .

- Rodinal will always produce slightly depressed midtones

compared to most other developers

- FWIW I find Calbe A49 ( same as agfa atomal ) diluted 1:1

to be the best developer I have found for 35mm apx 400

once again preferably rated at around EI: 200

Hope this helps.

I have not used fortepan 200 in pmk but in other developers it

definitely needs a longer processing time than hp5 plus. I would

do a test roll for at least 30-40% longer than your standard times

for hp5+ and see if that gets you in the ballpark.

Michael,

I gave up on PMK a couple of years ago because of its tendency

to produce flat highlights in overcast light when printing on VC

paper. This, of course was because of the yellow-green stain

acting like a low contrast filter in the highlights. PMK negs looked

great on graded paper but I find it hard to keep graded paper on

hand all the time. I also found that I was losing more speed than

I would have liked with pmk ( rating hp5 plus @ EI 160 ).

I have not used Fortepan 200 with PMK but I have used hp5+

with both developers. Pyrocat hd stains as well as PMK but

produces a much browner stain colour, which seems to have

little or no effect on the contrast filters so highlights are more

brilliant. You still get the same silky smooth tonal quality that the

stain provides.

Pyrocat-HD produces up to half a stop more shadow speed than

Pmk and is much easier to use for tray processing as it is a lot

less prone to streaking and uneven staining so you can give

reduced agitation for improved sharpness. Grain also seems

finer.

With Fortepan 200 in Pyrocat-HD I use the tray processing

procedure outlined in the film developing cookbook ie: presoak,

then process 4sheets at a time shuffling through the stack once

every minute rocking the tray after each shuffle. My time for ei:

100 @ 20 degrees is around 16 minutes using the 1:1:100

dilution.

hope this helps,

Matt.

Hi Michael,

I also use Forte 200 in 8x10 developed in Pyrocat HD, I rate it at

100 and find that even pushing to EI:200 leaves the shadows

totally empty.

Diafine is supposed to be useful in your situation as it

purportedly increases shadow speed whilst maintaining a

degree of highlight compensation. I have no first hand

experience however.

Youcould also add some amidol to the pmk to increase speed

( pmk+) but the increase may not be enough.

Good Luck

I tried both films rated at ei:1000 processed in d-76 stock to print

on grade 3 paper. Sorry, I have never used Paterson developers.

T-max has noticably sharper grain. Delta 3200 produces

perhaps a more appealing tonal range with a softer, slightly finer

grain. I dont think d-76 is the ideal developer for these films in

terms of fine grain or film speed but it does a pretty good job

overall.

Next roll of either film will be processed in calbe A49 1:1

which I have found to be a noticable improvement over d-76 for

APX-400 in 35mm in terms of grain and tonality. I expect it to

have similar benefits with the faster films.

In medium format delta 3200 is nice in microphen stock.

"B/W Films developed in staining developers scan much better

than films developed in non-staining developers"

"Another partitial myth, that also ironically eliminates the reason

for using B/W film in the first place. Staining processes reduce

density range in exchange for increased shoulder compression,

which basically is an attempt to get classic B/W films to act like

print films. Personally I'd rather shoot print film in the first place

rather than resort to a process that destroys the single unique

advantage of conventional B/W film and produces what is likely

the single biggest category of murky and unremarkable images

on record."

The highlight compression is mainly an issue with pmk on

multigrade paper because of the yellow green pmk stain

corresponding to the low contrast filtration colour. Scanning

does not produce this problem and produces results closer to

printing pyro negs on graded paper. Pyrocat hd produces

excellent highlight separation on multigrade or graded papers

because of its brown coloured stain. So what is with the blanket

condemnation of pyro developers?

Properly processed pyro negs printed on graded paper have

fantastic highlight separation, rich midtones plus the benefit of

higher apparent sharpness than a C-41 film due to the

adjacency effects inherent to pyro-type developers. I don't see

why edge effects would not in many cases be of benefit to those

who scan negs as well as those who print them conventionally.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

I am assuming Scott, that you have scanned many pyro negs

yourself in order to arrive at your conclusions?

It is interesting to read the formula, I had no idea that it contained

catechol. I am also curious how the formula for atomal differs to

that of atomal-f. I believe that the "atomal" component must be

the ppd derivative as they suggest that it can be replaced with a

color developer component which are usually ppd derivatives of

some sort.

BTW Charles I believe that when it is used undiluted A49

reduces film speed up to a stop like microdol or perceptol. When

diluted 1:1 the speed loss is probably only about a third of a stop

or so compared to d-76.

I have been using Calbe A49 in 35mm with agfa apx 400 rated at

around EI: 160. I dilute it 1:1 and process for 9 -10 minutes at 20

degrees. I find that this developer delivers finer grain than d-76

as well as nicer more delicate highlights. It uses a ppd derivative

as a secondary developing agent along with hydroquinone and

perhaps some others.

The ppd may help provide the finer grain and better highlights

which are quite apparent to me, at least with apx 400 and delta

400. This developer has an advantage over microdol-x and

perceptol in that the developing times are much shorter when

diluted 1:1, this is probably because of the hydroquinone, which

makes it more active than a metol only developer.

I recommend that anyone who likes apx-400 in 35mm or 120 try

it in this developer, It seems like a perfect match to me.

I find that Delta 400 has a richer, more appealing tonal range

than hp5+ , slightly finer grain and at least half a stop more

speed in d-76. I like the film best when rated at around EI:

200-250 and processed in either Perceptol or Calbe A49 both

diluted 1:1

Forte 200 rated at ei:100 processed in Pyrocat HD looks pretty

rich & smooth. Some say it is the same film as Efke 100 and

Bergger 200 as they are all thick emulsion films with a true ei

of about 100. I have only tried the Forte, it is nice in D-76 1:1

also, but really comes to life in pyrocat because it stains so well.

I would also second Plus-x, rated at around EI: 50 processed in

d-76 1:1 for the appropriate time. It is obviously a better option if

you are going to a lab using prepackaged developers.

Just a quick note to let you know that Latrobe in Melbourne has

shut down. There is CPL services on Wellington street in

Windsor & they do dip & dunk E6. Try this page:

http://www.cpldigital.com.au/E6.html

Good Luck,

I'm pretty sure he uses Tri-x in Rodinal. EI and dilution I am not

sure of. From my recent experience new tri-x rated at around ei

200 and processed to moderate contrast in rodinal 1:50

produces very nice results. You may want to try this.

The new finer grained tri-x looks great in rodinal in 120. I did a

test the other day, I rated it at ei:160 processed it for 7.5 minutes

in rodinal 1:50 at 22 degrees. No pre wash was used. Agitation

was 1 minute initially then 5 gentle inversions for 10 seconds

each minute.

The negs look great, grain is almost as good as apx 100 in

rodinal, I usually use d-76 1:1 but now i'm converted.

10 minutes at 20 degrees. No presoak. Agitate gently for the first

minute then use 4 gentle agitations for 10 seconds every minute.

This should be ideal for 35mm.

This is for the 1:1 dilution.