matthew_stanton2

Tribblet,

When did you last sell one of your "doo doo logs" ?

Did you get the price you were hoping for? I think it would look great as a permanent installation next to Duchamp's upside down urinal!

Matt.

Tribblet,

Of course the percieved irony actually only exists if one accepts

your premise that Pollocks art is devoid of semantic value. As

such I may be the only one here who begs to differ...

If you like it or not Pollock's work was informed by a number of

philosophical & metaphysical concerns. The most profound

influence on many artists of this era was existentialism but

Pollock's paintings also explored American Indian philosophies

as well as Taoism and Animism. If one looks at the progression

of his art from the earlier figurative/ totemic work to the more well

known action paintings the evolution of his visual language

makes sense. To consider context It also parallels the evolution

of more fluid musical forms in the same era ie: jazz and poetic

forms ie: Beat Poetry. I consider these to be all valid forms of

creative expression but you may not ...so where does this leave

us? Do you want to know this?.. perhaps not ...do I want to say

any more on this topic.. not really ..I would rather be ranting on

about an artist I really love.

yours goatsuckingly,

MAtt

Yes I think it is actually Phenidone/hydroquinone now that you

mention it, hmmm.

Tribblet, to clarify, I meant that perhaps the superadditive effect

between Metol and Hydroquinone becomes imbalanced at

higher temperatures. I believe this is due to hydroquinone

exhibiting a greater reaction to increased temperature than metol

does. But I may well be wrong.

So I assume that the unexpected difference I found between

these results is more to do with developer and not temperature.

I would have expected tmax to be noticably grainier at the same

contrast index..... not so.

Gordon Hutchings claims that using high developing

temperatures actually inhibits grain aggregation because the

film spends less time in the developer. When on the odd

occasion I have used tmax developer @ 24 (1:4) to process Tri-x

I have found that the grain is remarkably fine, finer than d-76

stock @ 20 degrees. So I guess I am curious if this theory is

consistent across the board or only applies to certain developers

with certain constituents. I get the impression that MQ

developers should not be used much above 20 degrees

because the hydroquinone becomes disproportionately active.

Experience Anyone?

Me,

Pollock may or may not have sucked goats but your argument as

to how and why he sucked goats is a little thin on the ground.

Not Me.

Some quotes from some of those terrible art critic types:

" What is essential in art is the expression of the beautiful

through the feelings passions and dreams of each man. "

Charles Baudelaire

" One must learn to differentiate between what may be analysed

and that which must be left to intuition as unique and

inaccessible to language"

Harold Rosenberg

" The value of values for art criticism must be the effort to

reintroduce art into the framework of humanly serious concerns "

Harold Rosenberg

Hogarth,

I didn't claim that Pollock was the first to explore abstraction,

just that he was one who pushed the form further than most

before him.

Lee Krasner was certainly not to be discounted as a major

marketing figure but one must not ignore the new status that the

mass media & popular culture had foisted on artists, the role of

the "culture hero".

Great literary figures such as Nathaniel West and Scott

Fitzgerald had destroyed themselves in the struggle not to be

devoured by the new mass media culture, William Faulkner and

Hemingway payed the penalty of mass media attention through

creative frustration and alcoholism.

After world war two extreme media attention like never before

was directed to the abstract expressionists and many such as

Pollock, Gorky, Rothko, Kline Reinhardt and Newman suffered

similar tragic fates to these literary figures. I dont think they all

had wives like Krasner.

I think many great photographic artists were influenced by

Pollock including Harry Callahan and Ralph Meatyard and more

recently Adam Fuss. Of course Ansel Adams didn't "get "

Callahans abstract photographs of weeds they werent as

instantly digestible as he would have liked. Some times it just

seems much easier to dismiss something out of hand than to

make an effort to understand it & then make make a more

informed evaluation of an artists merits.

Many may not "get" Australian Aboriginal Art because it uses a

representational system that is unfamiliar. That does not mean

it is without great meaning. Often in such cases great works of

art will be evaluated on their decorative merits alone. Which is

fine but that should not be the only value system with which art is

judged.

I think that to dismiss Jackson Pollock as a hack is a little rash.

I think that his best works have an intrinsic power, coherence

and unity that defies the reductivist chestnut: " My 3 year kid could

have painted that " Of course his work is non representational

but that is the direction painting was finally free to explore once

photography liberated it. Painting took a step closer to the form of

music.. a purer abstraction. One may not like the work but it is

important to the progression of ideas about form and feeling in

art in the 20th century. I dont believe his career was based upon

intellectual sophistry, I think Pollock had a real and genuine

motivation to express something meaningful through his work,

he was unwittingly caught in a new whirlwind of hype and

commercial pressure, a pressure that led himself and many of

his contemporaries to self destruction.

rate txp 320 @ EI: 160 and process accordingly in d-76 1:1 or

stock. This is the films true speed according to my tests. If you

rate it at 320 you will not get as nice a neg for portraits ie. the

tones will not be as smooth and shadows not as rich.

Irving Penn used TXP 320 extensively for his " worlds in a small

room " series and also rated the film at EI: 160 right down to

EI: 100 for dark skinned subjects.

This one may be a little to subtle:

(4) Robert Mapplethorpe, " Self portrait with whip "

Hi Enrico, I might be mistaken but i think Mayfield is in or near

Newcastle, I've never been into the shop. Here is the Newdark

web address: http://www.newdark.com.au/

and for Euroco: http://www.euroconz.com/

I'm pretty sure Euroco will have current stock but Newdark may

be waiting on an order.

Cheers.

I think that Atget's best work transcends the genre of street

photography, it is rich with such sublime poetic sensitivity. Also,

what about Julia Margaret Cameron, Nadar and Gustav Le Grey?

Compared to these greats Adams and Weston leave me cold.

Hi Enrico,

I have purchased Fortepan 200 in 8x10" from Newdark in

Mayfield N.S.W. it is around au$100 for a box of 25 sheets.

I dont know if they always have it in stock but they do reasonably

regular orders from Europe and are dedicated to supporting the

fine art B&W market. The Forte is a really nice film with distinctly

beautiful tonality. It should, however, be rated at EI:100 and tray

processing times are quite long in d-76.

If Newdark dont have stock there is also Euroco in New Zealand

who nearly always have it in stock, the cost including airmail is

about au$100 per box and it takes less than a week for delivery..

this is very cheap.

If you prefer to use Hp5 or Tri-x etc then B&H is probably the best

option as Ilford has a minimum quantity of 10 boxes before they

will import hp5 in 8x10. I think Kodak is a similar story.

I got into 8x10 for under $1000. I bought all my gear used from

the Camera Exchange in Melbourne. I got an old Eastman Metal

Commercial view camera for $300au and a 1960's schneider

300mm symmar with a compound shutter for $400au. 8x10 stuff

doesn't come in often but if you get in touch with them they can

be on the lookout for you.

Best of luck!!!

Something to consider when choosing your film/dev combination

is what paper you intend to print on. I find that hp5 plus rated @

200 processed in ID- 11 1:1 perfectly matches the curves of ilford

multigrade fb paper. Hp5 plus hasn't much of a shoulder but the

ilford paper does and this seems to help balance the qualities of

the film. I do not, however, like to print Hp5+ negs on Agfa

multicontrast fb because it seems to render the tones with less

subtlety. I believe that this is because the paper has less

shoulder and makes highlights harder to print. OTOH tri-x looks

much better to me on the agfa paper because Tri-x has more of

a shoulder which suits the greater highlight contrast that agfa

paper provides.

just my 2 cents worth.

If you can find it agfa atomal ff is the best solvent developer I

have used for apx 400 it may have been discontinued however.

D-76 1:1 is also nice if used properly ( don't use Agfa's times

they are optimised for contact printing contrast not enlarging ).

I find rating the film at around 200 and processing with 4 gentle

agitations per minute for about 8 minutes @ 20 degrees

produces a neg that will print well on grade 3 with a diffusion

enlarger. This is for 35mm film.

Out of your selection i would try microdol-x 1:1 and rate the film at

around 160. I haven't tried this combination but i imagine that the

processing time would be around 10-11 minutes for starters.

Of course It is always best to do a test if possible.

Would anyone have experience with enlarging fortepan or

bergger 200 from an 8x10" negative? I will be processing the film

in id-11 1:1 and hope to get a nice 20x24" print with minimal

grain. Perhaps I would be better off using hp5+ for such an

enlargement size as i understand that the older style films can

be a bit grainy ( I have so far only used them for contact prints. )

Any advice would be appreciated.

I have read in some posts a few months back that there may be

a greater risk of incurring scratches & damage whilst tray

processing the new TXP emulsion which is apparently a bit soft.

Now that the new emulsion has been out a little while does

anyone have any further experience they would be able to share

in regards to this?

Thanks in advance.

In hindsight I expect that EI 160 would be much closer to the

correct foot speed although it performed surprisingly well with a

one stop push. I think if you try ei: 160 for 8-9 minutes you should

be in the ballpark (Dont pre-soak).

If I remember correctly atomal ff comes with a replenisher which

allows for a single batch to go quite a long way.

I actually found an unopened pack of atomal ff from a few years

ago in my attic the other day. It felt as though the contents had

caked also, this must not be unusual.

The developers characteristics as a ppd based developer are

very " fine grain " and speed loss.

It does produce lovely tones with agfa apx 400, tri-x and delta

400. It also seems to produce really nice highlights and deals

with high contrast scenes very well. It is not the sharpest

developer in the world but otherwise is nice for fast films

and possibly is the best fine grain developer there is for 35mm

apx 400.

Give it a try with a test roll, I think a good time for apx 400@ ei

320 ( Real film speed is probably a bit lower ) is about 11-12

minutes at 20 degrees, then see how the negs look. I havent

used this combination for a number of years but I always found

that it had unique tonal qualities.

I tested the old tri-x 400 in 120 format both in xtol 1:1

and d-76 1:1 a few years ago. I preferred d-76, it was sharper

looking and with this film the speed increase with xtol seemed to

be only about a third of a stop.

Tri-x and plus-x in d-76 1:1 is a classic combination.

I have always found tri-x works much better at around EI: 200 in

most developers. Plus-x I would rate at EI 50-64.

It is always best to test these films for yourself but as a starting

point for tri-x 35mm @ EI 200 in d-76 1:1 I would try 7-8 minutes

at 20 degrees and work it out from there. Plus -x I would try

around 6minutes as a starting point. My tests were with the older

emulsions so this is obviously only a rough guide.

F.W.I.W. In my tests I have found that the only conventional

grained film to deliver a foot speet of around 400-500 asa in

d-76 is neopan 1600.

I have one of the crumpler padded photo bags called

" the harry palmer device " .In the bag i carry a hasselblad 503+

120mm lens( no prism ) I position the camera vertically in the

bag. I have enough room in the two side compartments to carry a

sekonic L-508 plus an extra a12 back & a few other bits &

pieces. This bag may be just a tad bigger than you need but the

next size down " oh lord " may be perfect. I'm not familiar with the

blunderbus, sorry I cant help there.

Scala is beautiful stuff, it has a great tonal quality with deep rich

blacks and great skin tones. It is also exceptionally sharp.

It can be pulled to ei 100 for high contrast light and also i believe

it will handle push processing in appropriate light

( ie. low contrast range )up to ei 800. The film and processing is

expensive but well worth it. Give it a try.

I am at a point where i have to make a bulk order of 8x10 film for

my projects for the next 6 months or so. I will primarily be doing

portrait based work and am torn between using forte 200 or hp5

plus processed in abc pyro and contacted on azo. I am awaiting

an order of azo which i will not have time to properly test with

these films before i make my order. ( the difficulty is that living in

Australia most 8x10" film is on indent order & takes 3 months for

a shipment to arrive.

So my question is ...... for the few that may have tried both of

these films in abc pyro & printed on azo were there any huge

differences between the results? I am tempted by the extra

speed of hp5+ for my available light portraits but if Forte 200 or

its apparent twin Bergger 200 produce a noticably richer image

or nicer skin tones etc i would possibly do without the extra

speed.

I will not be photographing in overly high contrast light so I would

assume the extra latitude of the forte film may not be that much

of an advantage.

Any opinions?

thanks.

At first i was surprised that the cold light head gave more

contrast but i guess that the yellow green stain of the pmk neg is

blocking more of the blue coloured cold light in the highlights

than shadows which would probably be the cause of the contrast

problem. Also cold light heads are optimised for using with

graded papers and the blue light colour might also be playing

havoc with the VC emulsion as lower contrast filtration requires

yellow light. Perhaps try a good graded paper like ilford galerie

grade 2 or something similar like oriental seagull or bergger etc.

and see if that helps with the cold light head.

I much prefer graded papers with pyro negs, they are just much

more consistent in use as far as i am concerned.

I dont think a condenser head would produce that much less

contrast than a cold light head because you have the

callier effect bumping up the contrast with that option.

I have recently been through similar proplems in my

photography studies printing 4x5 pyro negs and found that a

standard diffusion enlarger head is certainly the best light

source for pyro negs. But if the enlarger is inconsistent in

sharpness it can just drive you nuts and you might find that a

graded paper makes all the difference.

For 35mm hp5 plus rated EI:200 a processing time of 9 minutes

in d-76 1:1 @ 20 degrees celcius should get you in the ballpark.

You can extrapolate from there. This time is for processing

without a presoak & printing on grade 3 paper with a diffusion

enlarger.

I dont consider this to be a " pull process " for me it is

the way the film works best , both in practice and also according

to sensitometric evaluation.