david_carper

All of the ILFORD films will freeze quite well, but the Delta 3200 will have the shortest lifespan. Freezing slows the normal aging, but does nothing to prevent fogging due to cosmic radiation, which affects only the very fastest films. I would expect most films, if frozen, to give very good results for 10 years or more, but the Delta 3200 should not be expected to last more than about 5 years.

Paper should also last a good long time. Just be sure with either film or paper to allow it to warm fully before opening the package.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Just to let everyone know, I'm still here. I'll be at ILFORD officially through Sept 17, and will most likely be around a few days longer to help with some transition issues.

While it will no longer be part of my job, and I probably will not be as active, I will still frequent this board and answer questions that I can, at least when I'm not busy looking for a job. ;-)

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service (for now)

ILFORD XP2 Super is still being produced. The factory is still coating this and other films. Don't count it out yet.

If you are going to switch away from XP2 Super, I would suggest the Fuji product, as it is the only other chromogenic film that I know of that is designed for optimal printing on black and white paper.

The Kodak films print very well on color paper, but are more difficult to print on black and white paper than the XP2 Super.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

I have to agree with Lex in recommending MICROPHEN. Or for that matter, just about anything other than the developers you have.

The film you have would be the older version of Delta 400, not the currently produced version. This older version was considerably grainier than the current version, and got even worse in developers such as Rodinal and ILFOTEC HC (LC29 is simply a pre-diluted version of the HC).

It's hard to say what kind of results you'll get, but I feel sure that developing with MICROPHEN will give you much better negatives than using either the LC29 or the Rodinal.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Without implying anything regarding the announcement, I would say that frozen film (in a deep freeze) should keep for at least double the normal time, and probably longer. You can probably safely handle both film and paper for about 6-8 years.

Powder chemistry will also keep quite well. Liquid chemistry will not, and there is no way to prolong its life.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

As was pointed out, I'm in technical support, so really have little to say in regards to this issue. Most of what I know is what you know.

Here is a press release from ILFORD that may answer some of your questions:

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/ILFOPRO/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6126

Thanks to all for the support.

Regards,

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Thanks to all for the support. Here is a link to an official release from ILFORD:

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/ILFOPRO/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6126

Regards,

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Your film is quite old; old enough that my information on it is quite limited. I think that HP4 was discontinued in the late 1970s, but I'm not sure.

The processing information I have is for ID-11 stock for 10 minutes at 68?. This would be for fresh film; since your film is old, it will have lost some contrast, and a longer time will be required, probably an extra 50-100%, but it is impossible to know without testing.

For HC-110, I do not have any data on that developer with this film. However, based on comparing the ID-11 time with the current HP5+, I would guess that an appropriate time for your film would be somewhere in the 12-16 minute range. Keep in mind that this is a two step guess (age of the film, different developer). If you are concerned about getting the best possible results, I would suggest a clip test first before developing the remainder of the roll.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Yes, it is possible to develop ILFORD XP2 Super in conventional black and white chemistry; however, the results will generally be disappointing; there is a loss of speed and the negatives are quite grainy.

If you wish to try this, here are the recommendations:

ID-11 or D-76 1+1: 12 minutes at 68?; EI 160

MICROPHEN 1+1: 12 minutes at 68?; EI 320

ILFOTEC HC, 1+47: 10 minutes at 68?; EI 320.

You can also rate the film at 400, and develop for a higher contrast:

ID-11 1+1: 18 minutes

MICROPHEN 1+1: 15 minutes

ILFOTEC HC 1+47: 15 minutes.

Fixing time should be increased by about 50%. The film will look milky (like it is underfixed) when wet; this will clear when it dries.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Don't dispair, at least not totally. I've had reports from people who have done just this, and gotten usable, although not ideal, results. So it can be done.

However, since these were reports from customers whose work habits I don't know, I did not record their development times. You will need to do some testing, using another roll of Pan F+ rated at 400.

You certainly want to use a speed enhancing developer; ID-11 is okay for small pushes, but not very well suited to an extreme push. I would recommend Microphen, which gives a natural speed increase.

Using the stock solution of Microphen, a developing time of 12 minutes at 68? gives good results for film exposed at 200. I would suggest processing a test roll at about 18 minutes; I suspect that this will at least be close to the ideal time for rating the film at 400.

Remember, this is a guess. Test first before processing anything critical.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

ILFORD films fall into two main groups; Delta and Plus.

The Plus films are traditional technology; using the same basic techniques that have been employed for decades (although greatly improved over what was produced in the past). In this range are Pan F+ (ISO50), FP4+ (ISO125) and HP5+(ISO400) They have moderate grain size and sharpness for the speed, and a very smooth tonality. They tend to be quite forgiving of both exposure and processing variations, with the HP5+ being the most forgiving.

The Delta films (Delta 100, Delta 400, and Delta 3200) are modern technology films. These are made with a method that closely controls the size of the crytals of silver, allowing for a more uniform size. This gives a film with considerably finer grain for the speed; the Delta films are also very sharp. However, this same characteristic makes these films a little less forgiving of variations in exposure or developing, so are more suited for the experienced user than for the student.

The Delta 3200 is a little special; it is actually an ISO 1000 film, but is designed for push processing to get usable photos in conditions where you would otherwise not be able to photograph.

So for the practical differences, the Plus films are ideal for portraiture (due to the soft grain and smooth tonality), for students, and for shooting in conditions where the light is unpredictable or very high contrast.

The Delta films are ideal for the experienced photographer who wants the greatest sharpness and fine grain, which is often prefered for landscape and architectural work.

The other ILFORD films are XP2 Super, a C-41 black and white film; SFX, an extended red film that can give some infrared results when properly filtered, and Ortho Plus (sheet film only), a continuous tone orthochromatic film designed primarily for copy purposes.

Hope this helps.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

I'll be honest; Xtol is a pretty decent developer for this film.

But I'll give a little bit of background on the DD-X which may give you incentive to try it:

DD-X is a hand tank version of ILFORD's popular ILFOTEC DD developer, used in many labs with dip-and-dunk processors. For testing purposes at the factory, we have for years used a slightly modified version of DD, because we don't want to fill up a machine that uses 25 gallons of developer to run just a few rolls, so this in-house modified version gives similar results in a hand tank.

Well, when Delta 3200 was in R&D, a few rolls were run through this in-house developer. Basically, it blew away any other developer we tested, in overall balance of tonality, grain, speed, and sharpness. It was largely because of this that ILFORD decided to put this lab formula on the market, and that is what you get with ILFOTEC DD-X.

Of course, if your idea of the perfect balance of tonality, grain, speed, and sharpness is different, you may very well prefer a different developer. But I think that DD-X is good enough to warrent at least a try. (It also works well on other films).

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

It would be best if you could find some way to develop the film (or have it developed) within a shorter time period.

Freezing film will slow down any loss of latent image, as well as help prevent other problems associated with storing exposed film. However, it is nearly impossible to be sure that there will be no damage to the film due to moisture issues, especially if the film is sent through varied temperatures.

If the film is not frozen, there are three risks. On all of the film, you will tend to have a loss of latent image. You will also possibly have an increase in fog level, although this is probably not a major issue. Lastly, on the 120 film, there can at times be an interaction between the wrapper paper and the latent image. In severe cases, I have seen samples where the numbers printed on the paper left an image in the film. While there have been changes made to the backing (mostly with the use of a lighter ink), there is still the slight possibility of this causing a problem.

So my primary recommendation would be to process the film within a month or two of shooting. If that is impossible, then the best bet would probably be to double (or triple) bag the film in plastic bags, with a small bag of silica gel in each bag, and freeze until ready to process. When removing from the freezer, be sure to allow 24 hours to warm up before opening the plastic bags to avoid any moisture problems.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

Within the range we have tested, ILFORD films do not require any adjustment to development times in cases of long exposures.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

The formula that we have found that fits the chart quite well is

Tc=Tm^1.48

Where Tc is the corrected time

Tm is the measured exposure time.

Note that the correction must be made with the exposure time, not with the f/stop.

HOWEVER, I have heard recently from several knowledgable photographers who have done a limited amount of testing, all of whom indicate that Delta 100 has much better reciprocity characteristics than the published data would indicate. We hope to do additional testing in the near future, but reciprocity testing is quite involved and time consuming, so is not at the top of the priority list.

It is my experience that in cases where extremely long exposures are needed, it is often difficult to get an exact meter reading. So I wouldn't get too concerned with getting a perfect correction; getting in the ballpark should be good enough.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

If your normal (400) negatives print easily to give prints that you like, then I would not change the development.

It is normal that your negatives are more contrasty when pushed to 1600. Push processing does not really increase the true speed of the film (as measured in the shadows), but instead increases the contrast so that the highlights get to a more normal density. Although it may be counterintuitive, it is entirely possible to have a negative which is both thin and contrasty.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

As for my subject matter, I was shooting landscapes. So there were lots of green leaves in the scene. Also I have a decent amount of rock in my scene. The rock is light colored, much like that of sand.

I suspect that the color of the subject matter may have had something to do with it. A filter darkens the opposite color, and has little effect on the same color (when compensation is made, the end result is a lightening of the same color). Green leaves are often not darkened significantly by a yellow filter, depending on the leaves; and I would expect that sand-colored rocks would be even less affected.

To determine an exact filter factor, you would need to shoot a grey card. But since most of us never take pictures of grey cards, but instead shoot landscapes or other things, the exact filter factor is not that important (and may not apply to certain subjects). A close filter factor should be good enough, considering the latitude of most films. And if you are shooting with a dark filter, or in oddly colored surroundings, then a little bit of bracketing might be in order.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

In regards to the question of hardener affecting wet or dry film, it does indeed affect both. However, the difference between hardened and non-hardened dry film, at least with the ILFORD films, is not that large; in fact, anything likely to damage the non-hardened film will likely damage the hardened film as well.

Note that while all ILFORD films, and most films made by other manufactures, are pre-hardened, the same may not be true with films from companies such as Efke (not putting down Efke; just that they are small enough that they are not well known). In that case, the difference may be significant between hardened and non-hardened film, even when dry.

I see no reason why re-fixing would not allow the hardener to work. The normal fixing time should do it, since I would assume that the hardener is in the proper concentration to coincide with the fixing action. Keep in mind that a hardened negative is more difficult to fully wash than a non-hardened one (the main reason why ILFORD does not recommend the use of a hardening fixer for its films), so make sure to give a good washing. You may even want to use a wash aid; without it, I would expect a wash time of 15 minutes, but might be even more depending on how that film is affected by the hardener you are using.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

To answer a few of the various point brought up:

Out of date film will typically show a loss of contrast, loss of speed, and increase of graininess.

Storing the film cold will slow the aging process; the colder the better. You will not find temperatures too low in household refridgerators or freezers.

If you do cold-store film, make sure that it is warmed to room temperature before opening the package.

Aging of film is not dependent on the speed of the film. While it is generally true that faster films will show age effects sooner than slower films, there are slow films that age quickly, and fast films that age slowly.

When exposed film ages, it tends to lose the latent image. This latent image loss will typically occur more quickly than the other losses of the film. So a roll that is partially shot, left for a few years, then finished off, will typically give better results in the film that is most recently shot. It is for this reason that it is recommended that film be processed soon after exposure, even if still well within the expiry date.

David Carper

ILFORD Techncal Service

The filter factor for a Wratten #8 with Pan F+ is 1.5, not 2.0, so that could account for the increased negative density on those exposures.

I don't have the filter factor for the #29; for a #25, it is 6.0, which is actually lower than for many other films (HP5+ has a filter factor of 8.0)

As others have pointed out, there can also be a difference depending on the colors in the scene you are shooting. Or were you shooting a grey card?

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

ILFORD XP2 Super should be processed in normal C-41 regardless of the exposure index used.

A lower EI (hence more exposure) will give a little lower contrast in the highlights, and will help ensure that the shadows have enough exposure to avoid being overly grainy. As others have pointed out, underexposed XP2 Super can look quite grainy. This is typical of all chromongenic films, whether color or black and white.

I'm curious; why can you not get XP2 Super? (e-mail a reply if you like to david.carper@ilford.com)

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

While the ILFOTEC HC is a good developer in its own right, it does not generally do too well with the Delta 3200 rated at 3200 or even 1600. It does not have the natural extra shadow detail that is obtained with the ILFOTEC DD-X, and is not as well suited for push-processing.

Of course, you'll never know for yourself unless you try, but I suspect that you'll prefer the ILFOTEC DD-X for your Delta 3200, even if you like the ILFOTEC HC for your other films.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

It is possible to develop XP2 Super in conventional developers. However, there will be a considerable loss of speed, and a lot

of grain.

Developing in a paper developer, such as ILFORD Multigrade Developer,

would probably result in high contrast and extreme grain; or if

developed for a very short time to avoid the contrast, a great

loss of film speed.

But I don't have any data on this; so I don't know the exact results

to expect. In general, XP2 Super in black and white chemistry looks

pretty bad; traditional films in paper developer look as bad or

worse. So I expect that XP2 Super in paper developer would look

pretty awful.

I'd say that the teacher is simply mistaken, unless he is advising

on "creative" techniques.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

The defect is very small spots of minus density on the negative; which print as black spots on the print. They are small enough that they are often not noticed on proof size prints, but become obvious once you make an enlargement.

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service

ILFORD does not advertise SFX200 as a "true" infrared film, but in fact its sensitivity does extend into the IR range. SFX200 has sensitivity up to about 750nm, which is far enough into the infrared to allow (with appropriate filters) the bright foliage and dark skies associated with IR film. Kodak HIE has a much greater IR sensitivity; to a little over 900nm. Other infrared films fall in between.

Unlike other IR films, SFX200 is a true panchromatic film; it has nearly equal sensitivity through the entire visible range. Most IR films are sensitive mainly to the red end of the visible range, with some additional sensitivity to blue, but nothing in between. Because of this difference, SFX200 can be used without a filter to give images with normal looking tonalities. This technique is quite often used by photographers looking for large grain, as the SFX200 is grainier than normal pan films of similar speed (an inherent part of being sensitive to longer wavelengths).

SFX200 does have an anti-halation coating, so it does not give the haloes around highlights that are associated with the Kodak HIE. In conjunction with the lower sensitivity to the deep infrared, this allows SFX200 to be handled like regular black and white films. (the other factor is that black felt is not very good at blocking the longer wavelengths that HIE is sensitive to).

David Carper

ILFORD Technical Service