Binocular choice

[john clark]

Hi folks.

 

Apologies if this is not really the place for this question, but my

objective is viewing wildlife (amongst other things) and I figured

that the Nature forum was probably the best place to pose my question.

 

I'm after a pair of reasonably compact binoculars to compliment

my 'backpack' system which is either Canon EOS or Mamiya 7-based,

depending on where I'm going. Though my bias is landscape

photography, I'd like to get more out of the 'scoping' for shots and

in doing so I'm keen to develop my interest in wildlife observation.

 

My budget is reasonably generous (I think) - up to £600 for a pair of

tough, durable, light and easy to use binos. I want them to be

weather proof and easy to use with glasses. I also want them to be

pretty flexible, and I've settled on 8x magnification.

 

I'm thinking along the Leica Trinovid 8x32BN or Swarovski EL 8x32

lines - weather sealed, tough and optically fantastic. I have also

tried both of these in a local shop and though I prefer the ELs, they

are somewhat over budget.

 

I'm keen to hear about alternatives (I'm in the UK, so bear in mind

that some of the Nikon stuff doesn't seem to be available over here)

or any 'in the field' reports or reviews of the Leicas or Swarovskis.

 

I've already done the betterviewdesired.com trawl, and looked at all

I could find on google and the like, but would appreciate any

comments.

 

This is the 'final' pair of bins I ever intend to purchase, so if

budgets need to be adjusted slightly then so be it. I'd rather hold

fire for a couple of months to buy the right bins rather than

compromise on the wrong ones then regret it.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[david_chananie]

Somewhat less expensive alternatives are available which you might wish to examine. The info was supplied by Marc Small elsewhere:

 

"best glasses for general use remain the coated versions of

the 8x, 30mm CZJ binoculars. These are still produced in Russia and may still be available from Docter Optics. The magnification is reasonable, the field of view is good, and the sharpness is excellent. (There IS a reason that these binoculars served the Wehrmacht and the Postwar East German Military as tank commander's glasses, as well as the Soviet Army and, today, the Russian Army.)

 

most satisfactory glasses optically are the Docter Optics

10x,40mm Aspherics. These are simply magnificent binoculars. Their only drawback is a relatively low RLE and the like due to their fairly small objective size.

 

The CZJ 8x40 prismatics are superb glasses, though a bit rare and somewhat hard to find.

 

The CZ 6x,42 marine binoculars are delightful but their low power is a

problem. They are also useful for middle-range

bird-watching. And, of course, as they are watertight.

 

7x,40mm CZJ DF Porro Prism glasses. These are watertight,

relatively light, have great oculars and superb eye relief. They are

marvelous for all-around use.

 

Carl Zeiss 10x,40mm glasses, one of the Classics and another of the VICTORY brand. These are both excellent glasses in all

regards. For years, the Zeiss 10x,40mm Classic was the "second choice" for American birders and I can understand why: while it has an unfortunate mix of power and aperture, it is a useful glass in all regards, though the Docter Aspherics are its superior in optical performance."

[stemked]

Hi John.

 

Check out some of the high end Pentax binoculars while you are at it. They receive high reviews, are well built for rough weather conditions, and are a heck of a lot cheaper than Leica or Swarovski. I can't recall the actual modle but a very serious birding friend of mine swears by them.

[jeff_drew4]

Hi John!

 

Usually you can't beat the big names in binocs. I have had and used several varieties

and brands. Check into Minox new models! Well made and excellent optics! I've also

had Pentax, Swift, Celestron, Fujinon, Nikon, Leica, and Steiner. My favorite brand,

best value is a toss-up between "Hi-end" Pentax and Fujinon. Fujinon optics are

easily as good or better than Leica in binocs. The professional grades of binocs are

all very competitive builds & optics qualities. My favorite users are 8x40! The problem

I have is that I love binocs almost as much as cameras and must have several for all

those special uses. I do astronomy routinely with binocs. Great optics & comfortable

use are tough to beat. Have fun shopping!

[bill_atwood]

John,

 

If you are looking for the BEST combination of EXCELLENT optics, waterproofness, durability and size, I'd say you are definitely headed down the right track. I believe the Nikon 8x32 HG (venturer) may be a tad sharper, but also a tad bit larger and heavier.

 

I have the Leica 8x32BA, and just bought the 8x42 Ultravids for deep forest birding. I haven't tried the new Swaro 8x32s, but the Leicas work fine with glasses (although I believe any bino use is best w/o glasses). I hear the Nikons work OK with glasses also. If you haven't already, you should try perusing the bino forums at: http://www.birdforum.net/

 

It has a European bent and should be able to let you know what's available and where to shop.

[rolf_knebel]

Hello John,<p>

 

if money doesn't count Leica and Svarowski are usually considered

the best choice among birders here in Germany, with a small

advantage for the Swarovski (from Austria...) when comparing the EL

with the Trinovid BA or (newer) BN series. I once had the

opportunity to compare both in a 10x42 version in the field, and I

as well as the owners agreed on the *slight* advantage of the

Swarovski as you also described it.<p>

 

More recently the new Leica Ultravid an the new Carl Zeiss Victory

models (with "sliding" ocular rings) were described as very

competitive or even better.<p>

 

Of course they are very expensive - but they are worth the money

IMHO: Besides optical quality internal focusing, weather sealing and

being submersable to 5 meters (Leica) count outdoors. If you'd have

only 200 pounds - no discussion. But with your budget of 600 pounds,

which is about 900 Euros and therefore about 80% of the price at

least for a Leica, I'd either add the missing bucks or would try to

get one cheap via mail order or so: On ebay Germany at least the

"small" 8x32 Leica could be bought "new" or "as new" for about 900

Euros once every 2 month. Inside the EU buying and sending goods

isn't very expensive any more (just bought a Arca-Swiss compatible

clamp that way from GB, shipping was around 5 Pounds), and most

sellers should be able to answer you in (maybe: rough as mine)

English if you have questions.

 

Of course, as others pointed out, there are a lot of binos with 80

or more % optical quality for 50% of the price: My little son has a

small Minolta which totally impressed me with it's quality/price

relationship.<p>

 

As always it depends on your needs and willingness to spend

money.<p>

 

Greetings, Rolf<p>

(I owe a Leica 12x50 BA by the way, much too big for hiking, but fun

for birding)

[alex_lofquist]

A good source for binocular information is www.betterviewdesired.com. This fellow has done comprehensive reviews on a wide range of binos and scopes for a number of years, rating optical performance, handling weight, and durability.

 

My personal experience is with Leica and Nikon. I have both Leica and Nikon 7X50 porros, but they are too heavy to add to my already voluminous photo baggage. When I was in Japan about ten years ago, I bought the Nikon roof Travelites, they were very light and of reasonable optical quality. (They later were stolen in Latin America.)When replacing I compromised with Nikon 10X42 Monarch roof prisms: phase-coated, waterproof, and reasonably light with good optics. (Price in the US about $300 from B&H.) A very nice glass for what I needed.

[hans_beckert]

Trinovid Leica 8 x 32 is a very nice binocular.

[bkpix]

Before buying anything else, try out a pair of Canon IS binocs. The stabilization is lovely, and I can't imagine ever going back.

[donald_hutton]

I have two pairs of Minox binos and I am very impressed - have a look at the specs and then get into a store and try them.

[andrew robertson]

I would save my pennies, get an average pair of binocs, and spend that well-saved money

on a good telephoto lens. This IS a photography forum, isn't it?

 

Seems to me that the Pentax binocs are also pretty good, but, again, I use a monocular

with a camera body as the eyepiece (in other words, a telephoto lens).

[kevin conville]

I have Leica 10x42 BAs and 8 x 32BNs. The 8 x 32s are simply wonderful.

 

Sharp, bright, wide field, easy to hold and carry, very rugged, hard coatings on the lenses,

waterproof to 5 meters, comfortable eyecup design, super warranty and amazing

customer service. There are many good choices these days but I guarantee you'll love the

Leicas.

[larry_smith4]

Hi John,

 

There is a similar thread w/much discussion here(see my posts

- #19 on page 1, #2 on page 2...posting name "Wolfy":

 

http://forums.naturephotographers.net/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=83

06088241&f=8556005841&m=89010724&p=1

 

HTH,

 

Larry

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Birding is one of the things I do for a living since I am a research scientist...anyway, having owned Leica Trinovids in the early 1980s (10x40) to the first iteration of the heavy duty Leica bins of the 1990s (both the 8x42s and the 10x50s), to the 15x60 Zeiss bins I used to count raptors in migration over NYC, to the 8.5x42 and the 10x42 Swarovski ELs i now use, my recommendation is:

 

1. Swarovski 8 x 32 (simply the best small bin around).

 

2. Leica 8 x 32 (I own a pair and like them, but the 8x32 Swaros are 15-20% better)

 

3. Nikon 8x32...look seriously at these. I simply have not had enough experience with them.

 

For larger size: the Swarovski 8.5 x 42 EL are the best for me.

 

Finally, I like natural style birding: use no bins at all, just one's eyes...A Russian colleague of mine (she is 68 years old) has had the same pair of bins since the 1960s. She is a superb birder and scientist. I have a photo of her bins in my Israel 2003 portfolio. We banded birds in Eilat together for a season...

 

rdc/nyc

[john_macpherson]

I second the Swarovskis - I have 8x30 WB/SLC and they are

lovely glasses. They are much more comfortable to hold, in my

opinion, than the Zeiss or Leica models. Optically they are

superb. I had the chance to compare them to a pair of Zeiss bins

one day on a sunlit coast. Looking into the light, into a

shadowed are of rock (spotting otters) I could see more detail

with the Swarovskis. The Zeiss model was not as good at

holding the stray light in check. I have used the Swaros in all

conditions, and no problems, light, tough and comfortable. The

fit of the front and rear caps (captive) is excellent, which keeps

water out, and the screw-up eyepieces allows glasses users an

easy ride. These things ooze quality, and for the record the

after-sales service (here in UK) is simply excellent.

I had to return mine because the protective covering was coming

off in one area. The glasses were repaired, cleaned, a scratched

lens element was replaced, and the outer cover was upgraded

to 2003 specs (glasses were 6 years old), and the eyepieces

were replaced with the new screw-up design. All done promptly

and no charge for the service - all covered by the 30 year

guarantee. I'm a happy user.

[ralph_jensen]

Another enthusiastic thumbs-up for the Canon IS models. Do at least try them;

optically they're very close to some very expensive binoculars and the IS will

let you see things you never could with non-IS binos no matter how

distortion-free those others are. Plus, if they are indeed the final pair you'll

buy, as you get older and presumably less steady you'll increasingly

appreciate the IS.

[herman_hiel]

I have a pair of Leica 10x25 Trinovid. Quality is very good and light enough; also, when folded they fit into the breastpocket of a shirt. This is an advantage when in the field.

But then I bought a pair of Canon IS for my wife and boy, do you see the difference! If it weren't for the weight and the fact they're bigger, I'd sell my Leica now and go for the Canon.

Don't just look at the glass but the final 'output' which is quality and binocs shake.

[missy_cruz]

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