janet cull Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I just processed a roll of Neopan 400 (120) film. I always rinse/soak the film before I put the developer in the tank and this time when I dumped the water it was black! I went ahead and processed it as usual in D76. When I finished and looked at the negs they look very dark and like they've been poked all over - indentions, not holes all the way through. Has anyone ever had this happen? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay ott Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 There is an ongoing debate as to whether or not it's necessary and advantageous to presoak modern emulsion films. You can search the forum for the pros and cons of presoaking. The black water is probably a dye in the antihalation backing. Without seeing an example, my guess is that the indentations are air bells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 This is the anti-halation dye washing off. With some films it washes off in the pre-soak, with some it washes off in the dev and with others it bleaches in the fixer. The indentations in the film are nothing to do with this. I'd suggest that these have either occurred during manufacture or in the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico__ Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 do the indents look more like kinks? this so often happens when loading film that youre not so used to loading (ie 120) - but then again maybe you have loaded hundreds before. i usually get a black or pinkish dye run from a presoak with some film types. no big deal really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I don't see how pre-soaking can hurt. I pre-soak all films for sevral minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank.schifano Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 The indentations are definitely not from pre soaking. The dark water is due to the anti-halation dye washing out in the pre-soak. Some films do it and some don't. As for your dark negatives, perhaps they were over-exposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_harper Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Why pre-soak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lipka3 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Pre-soaking comes from the days long gone when films had thick emulsion layers. The pre soaking "opened up" the emulsions so that developer could migrate to the middle of the emulsion layer quicker so development would be more even. Not really needed with thin emulsion films. But it won't hurt to pre soak thin emulsion films either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank.schifano Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Why pre-soak? The answer is simple. It's a quick way to get the tank and the chemistry all at the same temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 To pre-soak or not to pre-soak, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind ... - sorry! wrong speech. I pre-soak. I didn't used to and occasionally I'd get bromide streaks or mottling on the film. So I started pre-soaking and since then I've never had a problem. Now, maybe it was just coincidental. Maybe if I'd chosen to wear moleskin trousers on that day and everything had turned out fine then I'd wear moleskin trousers every time I developed a film. Some people regard pre-soaking as only one step up from voodoo. But it works for me so I continue to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janet cull Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Once the film dried thoroughly I saw no bumps in it. At least *that's* good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Curiously, Ilford HP5+ turns my pre-rinse dark blue in 120 format but not in 35mm. Must be a slightly different film base (120 is thinner). 120 also has a certain minty freshness from the lick and stick tape that I've come to appreciate :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gus_gus1 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I soak my TMax 100 for 5 min. on a Jobo processor. It is recommened by the company to keep the temp at 68.My soak water does come out dark but not black. Never saw any problem with soaking. But when I used to use trays and did not soak, never had problems there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now