koen_hufkens Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Next monday I have a Biology fieldtrip to grass plains and will probably encounter some rare orchids etc. I have a lens with an extra extension tube to get some macro capablities, but I lack a descent flash. Any tips for film use? I may add that there could be some wind so long exposures on tripod wouldn't always be possible and I'm will be shooting from noon until early evening. So, slide for great color = slower and more picky on exposure, easy to digitize in digital flora? Color negative = less pronounced colors but faster film speeds are available, not as easy to digitize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 You are going to want at least 400 speed film if you are doing macro work with an extension tube. You didn't say what speed lens you are using. I would probably use Fujicolor NPZ 800 or Fujicolor Press 800: I like NPZ 800 for many situations like this. Good exposure latitude and typical Fuji saturation. Kodak Portra 800 is another possibility, though I haven't used it. If you are really worried about it, give Konica's Color Centuria Super 1600 a try: I've heard good things about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemked Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I used to live out in Western Minnesota, I know where you are coming from-winds used to drive me nuts. I still like Velvia (ASA 50) and no flash. I got around the wind problem a couple of other ways. Get out early or just at Sundown. The wind usually dies down. Sometimes I'd build a small shelter with scratched plexiglass. This both deflects wind (somewhat) and it diffuses harsh light. I also sometimes used a white bed sheet on really bright days and photographed under it. One other thing. Be careful of the area you are photographing. You can easily damage a local environment by breaking lots of grasses in an area. The rare orchid we used to photograph Small White Lady's Slipper live in a microenvironment that is easily damaged so we repaied that which we disturbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 If you encounter rare orchids and really want to preserve (long-term) the shots you take, I'd second suggestion above of using Velvia. You can consider pushing it one stop if you need slightly higher shutter speeds. Consider using a while umbrella to diffuse light as well as block the wind. Also consider an aluminium foil reflector. If using negative, try Supra 400, nice colors and low grain, they scan very well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koen_hufkens Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 About the flowers, don't worry... I'm a biologist :-) I would go with a 28 and 50mm f2 combination. 28 for close-ups of the reproductive parts of the flower, 50 for the overal flower. I will also take my zoom with me for some pictures of the setting, just to get a view of the habitat. Next question, does your f value matter. I think I don't need very low f values. Your DOF will be so shallow that you won't have much of a picture. Image quality will improve if you use an f2 lens instead of an f4 lens at f4. But besides that, are there any advantages, taking that you will not shoot at these low values? I like the white bed sheet trick, I think I take one with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnabdas Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Other advantage of a bigger aperture (smaller f) is that you can focus better in low-light conditions ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_fromm1 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 You're cooked. You have the wrong gear, you're trying something difficult for the first time, you're not well-acquainted with your subjects, and you want good results. And if you were to borrow the right gear it isn't obvious that you have time to calibrate it. The one thing that MAY save you is the orchids' growth habit. If they're like our local Spiranthes, they're low and fairly stiff. Both may help reduce the effects of wind. All that said, take a tripod, use it, and pray. Your tripod will let you work close to the ground, won't it? You might get results that will please you. You might not. If you don't try, you'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koen_hufkens Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 yeah I know that I have the wrong gear, but I'm still a student and until I have a descent job good macro equipment isn't on the menu. My goal isn't to take the ultimate picture, I want good pictures from what grows there. No masterpieces, just for a digital flora etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hique Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 I am a student myself so I also know how it is :) But couldn't you borrow some equipment? A heavy tripod would allow you to use slow shutter speeds when the wind calm down. An alternative is to use a Flash. If you use your camera's higher sync speed you will probably freeze the flower movement. If you prefer the flash with high sync speed, the light can turn a bit too blue, so it would be nice to put a yellowish translucid paper on the flash head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hi Koen,<P>I'm surprised nobody has suggested Provia for a film choice, either the 100F or 400 flavours. Both have great colours, not overly contrasty nor saturated compared to Velvia and the extra stop or 3 will make a big difference too. <P>As for lighting, it really depends on the day. Many prefer light overcast, but watch for your colour temperature in these conditions as slide films may come out with a blue cast to them. You can get around this with a warming filter, or try to modify the light with a filtered flash, or using a warm reflector (gold foil or something similar). This will be valuable for shooting around noon, when the light is the coolest. <P>FWIW, I've had good luck with cardboard sheets covered in semi-crinkled tin foil for my reflectors. I made mine just the right size to tuck in the side of my camera bag. I prefer shooting early in the morning, unfiltered. My second choice would have to be light overcast with a warming filter. <P>As for your gear, you have decent macro capabilities, but you'll most likely find them limiting in the sense of working distances. Putting an extension tube on a normal lens can yield impressive results but the small range over which you will be able to focus may be a challenge for you. I doubt the 28 will be very practical as your working distance will be virtually nil. I know it's frustrating as a student on a budget, so in the future you may want to look into some more extension tubes (varying lengths) for a bit of variety, or maybe save up for a dedicated macro lens. If it's what you're into, there's no real replacement for one. I shoot with everything from extension tubes, to teleconverters, bellows, lens stacking, reverse mounting, and a decicated macro lens. Of all of those, I have to say that the macro lens is the most versatile and easiest to use. <P>Best of luck. Please come back and let us know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 You didn't mention what sort of gear you're using, so I'm going to assume you're talking about the Pentax equipment listed in your profile. Looking through that, I'm going to recommend that you take along your 135 as well and try that with a bit of extension. You'll get more free working distance and better control over your background. If the extension tube doesn't maintain any connection to your body, you are going to have to try and use stop down metering, or remember to compensate accordingly. Also, make sure you double check your exposure just before you shoot, as changing your focus can change the amount of extension thus changing your exposure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisober Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 No need for flash. I primarily use ISO 100 with strictly natural light and get great results. All it takes is patience waiting for breaks in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koen_hufkens Posted May 17, 2003 Author Share Posted May 17, 2003 So we have: My pentax mz-5 with 50 and 135mm lens + extension tube./ 2x fuji velvia, 2x fujicolor press 800, 2x kodak ektachrome 100/ A white bed sheet/ A cardboard with some wrinkeled tin foil on it/ And my tripod I think my fellow students are going to wonder what the hell I'm planning to do :-) I don't have a warming filter, but I do have a polarization filter. It could have a warming effect but it costs me a stop I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Leave the polarizer in the bag. If you are worried about the amount of light, it will just cost you an extra stop or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_drew4 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I would offer some alternate film choices: Kodak's new Portra 400UC, Portra 400VC! Scans easily, very good colors, handles "people shots" better than many others. Portra will give way more latitude than 'chromes. OTOH: Ektachrome Elite/100VS will do a whale of a job on flowers . . . my all-time favorite for macro/flowers! Good suggestions on the other props. If really cloudy, do the Portra 400UC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koen_hufkens Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 The outcome... of a cloudy veeeeery rainy day. I have shot some pictures but about 1/4th of what I hoped to, and under very bad light conditions. I'll post the results at the end of this week. The results won't be spectacular, but it was a learning experience. one: forested area's are dark when there is no direct sunlight. two: rain shortens your working time. three: God bless Gore Tex... Koen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gauthier Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Adding a a few tubes on my 24 mm lens results in working so close that the focus point is actually BEHIND the front element of the lense. The shortest lens you can practically use is your 50 mm, as long as you can accept to shoot 4-5 cm away at 1:1 or 2-3 cm away at 2:1. Using longer lenses with tubes can yield interesting results. You'll lose a bit of magnifying power, but will be able to work from further away. This weekend, I used a Takumar 200/4.0 lens (M42 mount) with a single 18 mm tube to bring the minimum focus distance from 200 to approximately 75 cm. I was able to shoot at targets 8-10 cm wide from a distance of about 125 cm, which was useful for my subject: small ferns emerging from a fragile moss bed - I didn't have to step on the fragile moss. This was shot under forest cover, 6 to 7 stops under full sun values. This yielded exposures of 1/2 to 1 second @ f/16 with Velvia. Under the full sun, I'd rather use Provia 100F - but the expensive 400 version can be useful if the weather is windy. The lesson of this story: if you only want moderate macro, a moderate long tele lens is often more useful than the powerful, but tricky 50 mm + lots of tubes approach. You can practice this at home pointing your camera with different lens/tubes combinations at objects of various sizes. Note the coverage (how many cm wide is the depicted image in real life) and the DOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koen_hufkens Posted May 26, 2003 Author Share Posted May 26, 2003 The results can be found here: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=308441 It's not much but conditions were not optimal to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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