New ID-11 ageing test done.

[ramiro_aceves]

Hello my fiends.

 

As I posted months ago, I got my first inconsistent results with ID-

11 developer when I stored in half filled bottles and showed an

incresing strenght over the fresh solution. I improved developer

storage and bought 4 cheap plastic 250ml bottles and divide the 1

liter stock in the four bottles and added some marbles. Well, I have

done a test today with a 1 month stock solution, and the strenght

increase is very noticeable, unacceptable for consistency and

repetable results.

The last chance for ID-11 will be to try glass bottles and distilled

water,and if it does not work, I will have to say saddly goodby to

ID-11, even that I like very much the results I get at 1:1 dilution

and HP5+ (density curve is a near perfect straight line). I know it

will be ideal to mix it from scratch and use inmediately but at the

moment I do not want to buy an scale and chemicals. (If the

manufacturers ensure me that there will be film in the rest of my

life, sure will buy it ( I am 32)) :-)

 

Well, talking about developers,in the photo store they do not have

many developers, I remember they have T-MAX, HC-110, D-76, ID-11 and

Microphen. I was thinking about HC-110, as it is said that keeps

well. I read it have coaser grain than ID-11/D-76 but I would like

to hear you opinion about the HP5+/HC-110 combo in 35mm format.

 

Thank you.

[jorge_oliveira2]

Hello, Ramiro

 

I like HC-110 very much, and I think it's not grainer than D-76 if:

 

You use it as a single shot developer (4.7cc soup to 300cc water; I round off to 5cc)

DO NOT make a stock solution - use it straight from the bottle, and it will last forever.

 

see:

 

http://www.mironchuk.com/HC-110.html

 

Jorge

[lex_jenkins]

While I've been using ID-11 quite a bit the past year the fact is that for many years I had given up the Kodak equivalent, D-76, in favor of HC-110 for some of the reasons Ramiro has written about in these threads.

 

I found the D-76 provided in our newspaper labs to be a bit unpredictable. I preferred to bring my own container of HC-110 and mix it fresh in one-shot fashion as needed. Very consistent and I preferred the slightly snappier contrast and acutance with Tri-X, the only film I ever used with HC-110.

[classcamera]

Hello Ramiro,

 

Not to beet a dead horse, but if your local photoshop can get HC110 they should be able to get Micordol-X, which I consider to be Kodaks best developer. It is very fine grained, has excellent contrast, and will yeild a full tonal scale. It also keeps as well as any developer I have used. I have used HC-110 but find that it is a little too grainy for my tastes, but otherwise is an excellent developer. <P>

I should ask what type of photographs you typically shoot before making a blanket recomendation however, since in realiy there are few developers that will do in every situation. My preference is based on trying to limit contrast on night time photos so I have printalbe highlight and good shadow detail.<P>

In closing, Kodak may be the evil yellow empire, but all of there products are well tested and work as described. I am sure you will enjoy taking pictures more than making desity tests.<P>

Mark

[robert_davis2]

Did you test the pH? Why not just mix up D-76H from scratch yourself.

[david_karp]

This is a problem that Anchell & Troop report in The Film Developing Cookbook. Apparently, the ph of D-76 and ID-11 changes over time, and the this in turn promotes activity in the hydroquinone. In turn, this increases contrast. So, if you don't use it right away, this developer will give inconsistent results. Surprisingly, according to those authors adn many others, the hydroquinone in D-76 and ID-11 is inactive when the developer is first mixed (at the intended ph for usage). That is why they suggest D-76H, which is D-76 with a bit more metol, and no hydroquinone. You can find the formula in the Film Developing Cookbook and at www.unblinkingeye.com. I have not tried it, but D-76H is said to give identical results to ID-11, and uses the same times as standard ID-11 or D-76, the only problem is that you just have to mix it yourself, which you don't want to do.

 

I have used T-Max developer with HP5+ with good results. You might also want to try Ilfotec-DDX. If they can get ID-11 and Microphen at the local store, they can easily get some Ilfotec-DDX. I have not tried it, but have heard good reports.

[robert_davis2]

Ooops didn't notice the part about not wanting to mix. Hydroquine is inactive at low pH and I think at low temps. The problem with pH drift was fixed I thought long ago. It's not like Kodak doesn't know about it. D-76H is a kodak created developer.

 

You don't need a scale to mix developers. Many get by with just kitchen measuring spoons. All you need is the chemicals. Some of those you can get at the grocery store.

 

What's in your water? What's it's pH?

[david_karp]

Ramiro,

 

I should also have mentioned that John Sexton mentioned this problem with D-76 during a workshop, and included a note about it in his workshop materials as well. He recommends using fresh developer if you are going to use D-76. That is another alternative, just buy it in quart sizes and then discard it after a few weeks. It drives up the cost and it is inconvenient, but this is what I did when I was using ID-11 all of the time. It is a hard formula to beat, especially when used 1:1 with 35mm negatives.

 

By the way, I found a pretty inexpensive digital scale made for weighing jewelery (I think) called a My Weigh MX-200. I think it cost under US$40, and measures in .1g increments. It works great for weighing chemicals. I purchased it from www.oldwillknot.com. I mix some of my own developers, and it works great.

[classcamera]

Hello All,<P>

 

I have to correct some of the theorey above, D-76 has both Metol, and Hydoquinone, and is called a Superadditive developer. Superadditivity is when one type of developer would work but act slowly, when a second developer is added the firsts activity increases above that caused by the property of pH. In the Case of D-76, I would wager that the aging is not an increase in pH, but a decrease in the activity of the restrainer. That is just a guess, of course.

<P>

Mark

[robert_davis2]

Like I said the pH drift and how it affects D-76 [the orginal formula. Who knows what Kodak is selling today] is well know.

 

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=DKK3q7.CEo%40freenet.carleton.ca&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dkodak%2Bgrant%2Bhaist%2BD-76%26meta%3D%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg

 

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=383da158.143561373%40news.mindspring.com&rnum=6

 

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3d3c391a.11507893%40basic.bs.webusenet.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dkodak%2B%2Bhaist%2BD-76h%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8

 

Not to mention what restrainer??

[scott_eaton]

HC110 at dilution B (1:31) is *awesome* with Ilford films like HP5 and Delta, and delivers similiar characteristics as D76 at 1:1. It's also one of the most robust developers ever invented.

 

I gave up on powder developers long ago.

[john_hicks___]

ID-11 is the original D-76 formula and as your tests show, activity increases with age.

 

Packaged D-76 is D-76d, a buffered version presumedly sold to avoid this sort of instability.

 

To the best of my knowledge _no one_ has in recent decades present any sort of evidence that Kodak-packaged D-76 increases activity with age. I believe they're simply repeating an old tale, not realizing that packaged D-76 isn't the same as decades ago or the published formula.

 

So...if you like ID-11 and want a packaged developer, why not simply use D-76? Besides, you could be the first to actually test the fable in a long time.

[gary_frost1]

I just finished a batch of Kodak D76 that was 2.5 months old, stored

in full containers. (not opened during storage) I developed some Delta

400 120 roll film and TMX 4X5 sheet film. Both in Jobo Drums. No 'test' rolls, no densitometer readings, but my proofs on grade 2 with

normal development look just like they did 2.5 months ago from when I

first mixed this batch of D76. I would definitely notice if they looked closer to my N+1 development. Maybe you should give the Kodak D76 a try with your controlled aging test and see what you get.

I have only used it out to 3 months, not the 6 months shelf life Kodak

claims.

[classcamera]

Robert,

 

<P>

Most all developers are made up of three things, developer, activator and restrainer. In the Case of D-76, ID-11, the Developers are Hydoquinone, and metol, the activator is borax, and the restrainer is Sodium Sulfite. As I understand it (I am sure you will correct me If I am wrong), ID-11 has less sulfine than D-76. George Eaton in his book Photographic Chemistry says that Sulfite is chosen as the restrainer and as preservitative both. In ID-11 there is less sulfite and therefore less preservitative action. Once the preservitative (in this case the restrainer)is exausted, by oxygen, it can no longer restrain the developement process and thereby the developer becomes more active.

<P>

I am drawing form many sources so maybe I am all mixed put,<P>

Mark

[robert_davis2]

Many film developers have no restrainer. It's better for various reasons to leave it out and just cut back on the developing agent.

 

In D-76

 

Metol developing agent

Hydroquine regenerates the Metol increasing the capacity of the Metol. You can see this in D-76H which removes all the Hydroquine yet still manages to act the same way

 

Borax is the main acelator

 

Sodium Sulfite is the persivite and acelator.

 

Yes Sodium Sulfite is an acelator. Just check D-23.

 

Metols by-products are restrainers.

 

 

Ilford doesn't tell us what is exactly in ID-11. It's supposed to be close to classic D-76 [without the special additions that Kodak added to deal with hard water and other reasons]

[ramiro_aceves]

Dear friends:

Sorry for my response delay, not too much free time this week.

I want to thank you all for your very interesting responses. I have seen the web of the cheap scale, I think I am going to buy one, it is really cheap indeed and seems acurate enough.

 

This weekend I am going to do a controlled aging test. I think it is very important to do a test with the variables well controlled. I have just bought a D76 bag and a ID-11 box to compare. I am going to use demineralized water(I do not know the right word) and two kinds of bottles, glass and plastic for the two developers and marbles. I am going to mix today, let stand 1 day and develop tomorrow. Then, I will do the same one month after, with the glass and the plastic(always same batch of film)Then measure with the densitometer. I will tell you. We´ll see...

 

We´ll keep in touch.

Ramiro.

[frank.schifano]

Ramiro,

 

I've not tried ID-11 simply because in my neighborhood D-76 is cheaper and is supposed to be the same thing, at least when it's fresh. I have never seen a problem with increased activity of D-76 even after the stock solution has beens stored for up to 4 months. I store the stock solution in glass bottles with Saran Wrap under the lids. Partially full bottles have the air displaced with a generous shot of propane from a small propane torch of the sort used by plumbers to sweat solder copper pipe joints. I do not used distilled water unless it is specifically recommended. Since I sometimes find sediment in my tap water I do filter all water used to make up photo chemicals through a carbon filter connected to my tap.