Nikon F + Assorted Lenses etc

[SCL]

I too choose the Nikomat/Nikkormat FTn models. They were a bargain compared to the F/F2, and mine came with the 55/3.5 and 50/2 lenses. They both are heavy, built like tanks, and seem to do a reliable job, although I only use them infrequently.

[Matthew Currie]

If you want the plain prism look and don't need the F system accessories the Nikkormat might well be a better choice.  Same lenses, only one battery, and threaded viewfinder.

Much of the advantage of the F, such as accessory finders, bulk film and Polaroid backs, is of little importance now.  

 

 

[orsetto]

Its only fair to note while we're praising the underrated Nikkormats, they do have their quirks that not everyone can get onboard with. 

One issue it shares with the Nikon F and F2 is the accursed "carbon resistor ring", which often wears to the point of making the meter inoperable or jumpy. The implementation in the Nikkormat lends itself to easier "perking up" of long-dormant cameras just by spinning the aperture and shutter rings a few times, but really worn rings will render the meter useless (as will dead or dying CdS cells, another issue Nikkormats share with the Nikon F/F2). While very sturdily built, the Nikkormats are engineered like a Rubiks Cube of nested parts, meaning meter repair service nowadays is laughably expensive (you're better off rolling the dice with another second hand body instead).

Being designed in the early 1960s, a large number of Nikkormat FT and early FTn  employ the then-popular microprism focusing aid at center of the screen. Unfortunately this screen cannot be changed to a more modern split image aid: if you don't like microprism-only you're stuck with it. However, careful selection of body style can get you the later "Type K" screen (the typical modern split image circle surrounded by microprism donut ring). If you want a split image screen, look for the later "Apollo" variant of the FTn (with black plastic wind lever and self timer handles): most of these have a split image screen, as do all of the later FT2 and FT3. The AE Nikkormat EL doesn't have any external signs of what focus screen is inside: if it doesn't still have an obvious "K" sticker on the wind lever, you'll need to ask the seller.

Perhaps the biggest gripe that puts off potential owners is the non-standard location of the shutter speed control. Instead of a knob on the top deck, you set shutter speeds on a ring surrounding the lens mount (a configuration shared only by the Olympus OM series in the annals of 35mm focal plane SLRs). This can be disconcerting for long-time shooters dependent on ability to see shutter speed by instantly glancing at the top deck.

Olympus improved on the idea by having two ergonomic grip tabs around the shutter ring, and engraving the speeds at the top of the ring so you can still just glance down at the top deck to see both aperture and shutter setting. The older Nikkormat locates too many functions in the lens mount area, reducing ergonomic flexibility, so the controls feel designed by committee instead of by working photographers. Most Nikon enthusiasts learned to operate the Nikkormats easily enough to seamlessy use them as backups to their Nikon F or F2 (which indeed have their own issues with shutter dial being obscured when meter prism is attached).

The Nikkormats have no less than four (4) major functions on the lens mount: meter coupling lens prong , meter coupling aperture confirmation scale, ASA/ISO film speed setting scale, the shutter speed setting scale, and one near-vestigial tiny handle to adjust the shutter speed. So to paraphrase Princess Diana, "its a bit crowded".  The shutter setting handle is on the left, spanning an awkward range of movement, with the lens max aperture indicator scale below it. ASA/ISO film speeds are set at the bottom of the lens mount using a stiff sliding pointer. Shutter speed scale is on the right, facing the self timer lever.  At any given time, use of the shutter setting handle can be impeded by the lens meter coupling shoe or the lens release button. And none of the scales can be viewed without turning the camera every which way.

To compensate for that ergonomic nightmare, Nikkormat does at least give you a handy shutter speed display at the bottom of the viewfinder (which is what crops some of the view coverage vs F/F2). You clearly see the set shutter speed in the middle, with the next higher and lower speeds flanking it. With practice, it becomes easy to forget the clumsy body scale and just set shutter speeds directly in the viewfinder. Just for giggles, the electronic Nikkormat EL variants returned to a standard shutter speed knob in the conventional top deck location (the peculiarity with EL bodies is their battery compartment location under the mirror: you need to lock up the mirror to change the battery).

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by orsetto

[orsetto]

What a beautiful array of black Nikons, Niels -NHSN! 😊

Re pricing, see below for the 1976 Nikon retail list (actual typical discount prices averaged 20% less). This would have been on the cusp of Canon releasing their AE-1, which became the torpedo that finally sank the venerable Nikkormats. Rampant inflation throughout the 1970s put tremendous profit vs viable sale price pressure on Japanese camera mfrs (and drove the European Leica, Rollei, Zeiss, Alpa and Hasselblad to galactic unaffordability). Canon's answer to ever-increasing production costs was the AE-1, which exchanged traditional (expensive) bulletproof brass construction for whiz-bang automated features with more appeal to casual photographers, at a price that made everybody (except their competitors) happy. So 1976 was the final peak year for what we think of now as classic "unadulterated" cameras.

Edited December 23, 2023 by orsetto

[ben_hutcherson]

I freely admit to not being the biggest fan of the Nikkormat range,. I don't get along with it for two reasons. The first is a general dislike of the shutter speed dial around the lens mount, something I never could get use to on the OM-1 as much as I wanted to like that lovely little jewel of a camera.

The second is maybe not a big deal to a lot, but it's something that really bugs me-I don't like lenses must be set to f/5.6 before mounting. If you only ever use non-AI Nikons it's probably not that big of a deal since the coupling pin on the camera will tend to set the lens there when dismounting. With that said, considering that on the various F and F2 finders you can "grab" the coupling pin by twisting to minimum aperture regardless of where it was set prior to mounting, it's a bit of a different workflow/mindset.

I need to post some photos in this thread, as I've been on a bit of an early F mount buying binge lately. It started a few months ago when I bought an 8mm fisheye from the local camera store. A month or so back, following a discussion on here(so I blame you @orsetto 🙂 ) I went hunting for a 35mm f/1.4 thorium and found a nice one on Ebay. I ended up chatting with the seller a bit, one thing led to another, and I bought an early 5cm f/2 and 2.1cm f/4 along with an early 64-block F. A bit more discussion led me to getting a 9-blade 5cm(non-tick-mark, which seems actually less common than the tick mark version but a lot less expensive), an early 35mm f/2(or is it a 3.5cm? I'd have to look) a super clean 50mm f/1.4 AI that will be a perfect match for my boxed Photomic T, and finally all capped off with a black F2AS. The latter is a bit rougher than the chrome 80 SN F2AS I've had for several years, but I'm also less afraid to use it. At the end of the day I still think I like my F2SB better, but the F2AS is hard to dislike. The one I keep trying to use but can't really seem to take to use the F2S, the DP-2 prism with the two LED read-out. I think these are CdS, so I'm also afraid that they're prone to the same sort of meter drift as the Photomic finders.

[orsetto]

Wow: you snagged some NICE rarities there, @ben_hutcherson !

The 2.1 cm non-reflex superwide is still regarded as quite excellent: probably still eclipsing the later reflex-compromised 20mmf/3.5 v1, f4, f/3.5 v2 and f/2.8 iterations. It also looks really REALLY cool mounted on a plain-prism Nikon F with separate viewfinder fitted over the rewind crank.

The original 7-element 5cm f/2 lenses are almost unknown today, most having been discarded, lost or hoarded by collectors during the rush to AI (they could not be officially updated to AI). The final most common 5cm version (without tick marks or other collector gimmicks) can still be found at cheapish prices if you look for one patiently. It has a different optical rendering from the its more famous/numerous successor, the six-element 50mm f/2 Nikkor-H. Used with care, the 5cm can get you close to the subtle qualities the Japanese market prizes in the 58mm AFS f/1.4, at a tiny fraction of the price. The later 50mm, while a uniformly good and consistent lens, has more clinical balance between correction and subjective rendering.

[ben_hutcherson]

14 hours ago, orsetto said:

Wow: you snagged some NICE rarities there, @ben_hutcherson !

The 2.1 cm non-reflex superwide is still regarded as quite excellent: probably still eclipsing the later reflex-compromised 20mmf/3.5 v1, f4, f/3.5 v2 and f/2.8 iterations. It also looks really REALLY cool mounted on a plain-prism Nikon F with separate viewfinder fitted over the rewind crank.

The original 7-element 5cm f/2 lenses are almost unknown today, most having been discarded, lost or hoarded by collectors during the rush to AI (they could not be officially updated to AI). The final most common 5cm version (without tick marks or other collector gimmicks) can still be found at cheapish prices if you look for one patiently. It has a different optical rendering from the its more famous/numerous successor, the six-element 50mm f/2 Nikkor-H. Used with care, the 5cm can get you close to the subtle qualities the Japanese market prizes in the 58mm AFS f/1.4, at a tiny fraction of the price. The later 50mm, while a uniformly good and consistent lens, has more clinical balance between correction and subjective rendering.

I still want to really play with all of them.

 

The 2.1cm is a bit rough around the edges, and unfortunately too I didn't get the finder with it(I did with my fisheye). I've been meaning to track down an aftermarket one, as supposedly Voigtlander in particular makes a decent one.

It's amazing how compact it is mounted on the camera, though. It's the slimmest, lowest profile lens I've ever seen mounted on an F mount camera(and yes I do have both the 45mm lenses). Mine is the earliest variation of it, and part of me is curious to look at it on my Fuji X-T5(I have done that with the Fisheye) but part of me is afraid to. There's some discussion about the mount "fork" and i've not studied the lens closely enough yet to really understand how it interplays with the lens mount, but IIRC it will only actually mount on F and F2s because of this. It's REALLY close to the film plane, and I think there was some concern even on F4/F5 bodies about the lens interfering with the shutter.

Even getting around that, I've seen photos from some who have used them on Z cameras and they vignette and give some wonky artifacts-the whole phenomenon of the rear element getting too close to the sensor really is a thing. I don't notice it with the Fisheye, but then it sets out a bit further and the edges already vignette anyway.

I hope I can play with both 5cms I have soon. The guy I bought them from was reluctant to sell the 9 blade version and said he much preferred its rendering to the newer 6 blade , but I'll see...

[michael_goldfarb]

We had a sequence of Nikons and Nikkormats through the 60s and 70s at my parents' studio.  (We'd started off with a Nikkorex F in 1963.)  And I always preferred shooting the Nikkormats to the Nikons, full stop.  (Picture: me finishing off a roll of TX in our studio's waiting room mirror circa 1969.)

Sure, the Nikkormats were missing a couple of "pro" features, but they were sleeker and just as tough as the Nikons.  And I preferred the feel/sound of the Nikkormat's Copal shutter to the horizontal shutters in the Nikons.  I've still got a nice F2 from my parents, with both plain and working meter heads, which I shot with occasionally for years...

I got a Nikkormat FTN body ($60 from UsedPhotoPro) a couple of years ago to be a backup body for my eight non-AI lenses...  But I'm loving shooting the Nikkormat, and the F2 was quickly relegated to being the backup body!  Nikkormats and non-AI lenses are seriously undervalued in the current, crazy inflated used camera market, and I always recommend them over a lot of the popular favorites if anybody asks.

[ben_hutcherson]

L-R Plain prism F with 45mm GN, early black F with waist level and 2,1cm f/4, and plain prism F with 8mm fisheye(and the auxiliary finder). 
 

All three of these Fs are 64 SN block ones, the black one is the earliest. 

[Matthew Currie]

Just a quick note, that although it is recommended, it is not necessary to set a lens to 5.6 on the Nikon F's FTn meter head, which has a retracting spring. A possible selling point for the F if one is switching lenses a lot in a hurry. 

[michael_goldfarb]

I absolutely agree: Nikkormats and non-Ai lenses are a tremendous bargain these days, absurdly cheap compared to tons of popular gear nowhere near their build quality.

I handled all the non-AI Nikon and Nikkormat bodies (and the Nikkorex F) in my 60s/70s youth, and still have a working F2 (and multiple non-AI lenses) from my parents' studio.  I have always - ALWAYS - preferred shooting the Nikkormats to the Nikons.  Sleeker, lighter, with that great Copal shutter, and built just as tough as the Nikons.  This is me around 1969:

For a dozen years starting around 2009, I used that old F2, mostly with a plain DE-1 prism (though I also have a working DP-1 meter prism) and mainly with the miniscule 45mm/f2.8 GN lens to make it the lightest F2 kit, just easier to carry.  With seven lenses and only another long-seized-up F2 body, I figured I needed a working backup body. 

So, a couple of years ago I got a black Nikkormat FTN to be the backup (for just $60, rated Good at UsedPhotoPro).  Well, the moment I had it in hand, I realized that I'd much rather use the Nikkormat... so the F2 became the backup body squirreled away in a gadget bag.  Sure, the Nikkormat's light meter is flakey... but I've been estimating exposures since 1966 and today's Tri-X has even more latitude than it used to.  I LOVE the feel of this camera and its shutter. 

Recent shots from that Nikkormat using my parents' old (never even CLA'd!) lenses - first the 35mm/f2 (vintage 1972), then the 105mm/f2.5 (vintage 1966): 

 

 

[michael_goldfarb]

Sorry, I didn't recall that I'd already responded to this thread more or less identically a while back!  D'oh!

[ben_hutcherson]

28 minutes ago, michael_goldfarb said:

Sorry, I didn't recall that I'd already responded to this thread more or less identically a while back!  D'oh!

It’s all good in my book-it was still interesting a second time around and you added a lot more with your second post! 

[orsetto]

Agree: esp like the two additional pics!

[glen_h]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:32 PM, ben_hutcherson said:

 

(snip)

 

BTW, the 50mm f/1.4 is great and getting a 50mm f/1.4 SLR lens was quite an achievement at the time(Nikon's first attempt was 58mm, and this was true of a lot of other early fast SLR lenses).

(snip)

 

That makes sense, and I never thought about that before.

I have known about the Beseler Topcon 53mm lens for a long time, but never why.

Then I was 10, I inherited much of my grandfather's photographic equipment, and especially darkroom equipment.

But not the Auto 100, which was sold to my uncle. 

 

A few years ago, I got an Auto 100 from Goodwill.

One thing about it, is how easy the lens comes off.

Just barely touch the lens release, and you have it in your hand.

(Hopefully not on the floor.)

[glen_h]

On 1/4/2024 at 5:06 AM, michael_goldfarb said:

I absolutely agree: Nikkormats and non-Ai lenses are a tremendous bargain these days, absurdly cheap compared to tons of popular gear nowhere near their build quality.

My first Nikon is (I still have it) the FM.

But more recently I have bid low on too many Goodwill auctions, and sometimes win.

 

I do have a Nikkormat FTN, but I more often use the FT3.  That is, the AI version.

The FT3 seems like practice for the FM, and one of the early AI cameras.

They weren't made for very long, though aren't all that hard to find.

 

AI lenses aren't all that hard to find for low prices.

One of my best lens bargains it the Nikon AI 80-200/4.5 zoom for $11.

This is a push-pull zoom, though it always seems backward, that you push to zoom out, and pull to zoom in.

Though more often I use the Nikkor D AF 24-120 3.5/5.6.  Not the newest 24-120, but works fine for $75.

[michael_goldfarb]

Good to know.  But I can't speak re AI gear, I've never personally handled any.

My folks never made the leap to AI bodies and lenses.  Our last NIkon purchase was an F2 Photomic around 1973; at that point we had three bodies and six lenses, and we didn't really need anything else.  The majority of their work was always on 4x5 sheet film, and there was no compelling reason to buy the new Nikon equipment.

Their only major camera purchase still to come was a Mamiya RB-67 around 1980, trading up from a C330.

Picture: My dad and a commercial artist friend fooling around with a Nikkormat and Nikkorex F at the studio in 1968.  Shot with my Minox B on Tri-X, scanned from a 4x5 print.  (Yeah, 60s TX in the Minox yielded "grain like cannonballs" plus all the dust and scratches.  Hey, I was just a kid - I did much better in my second era of Minox shooting starting in 1995.)

 

[Rick Helmke]

Somehow I have ended up with an Ftn, Ft2 and an FT3. We used them in the newspaper business as backups to a motor driven F2 because it was lighter and less expensive. Also, shooting Friday night football with a Sunpak 511 the F2 1/80 flash sync speed meant a lot of ghosting but the 125 speed n the Nikkormat solved the problem. I don’t know why but I put together a camera bag basically the same as what I carried in those days and love it. I also know why I walk leaning to the left all the time.

 

Rick H.