On the job insurance question

[Edwin Barkdoll]

I’ve got a friend who has an upcoming, weeklong project which will involve shooting video from an ultralight aircraft. The employer is a major video camera company. My question is: what type of insurance is usually in place during a shoot like this, particularly since the activity involves some risk? I assume the company provides coverage? Include accidental death?

Thanks.

[William Michael]

Firstly - It would assist to know the location (jurisdiction) of the job: insurance cover where I generally work is different to that required in Hong Kong, as one example.

Secondly - Clarification is required - are you asking about what Insurance Coverage the Photographer would be required to have? - or - What Insurance Coverage the 'major video company' is required to have? - or - The aircraft company? - or - generally what are all the insurances policies applicable? etc.

Thirdly - the specific nature of the 'employment' is probably relevant: as one example if the Photographer is 'an employee of' the 'major video company' and that company is located in, for example Australia, then that company would (should) have insurance which generally covers the well-being of their 'employees' - however, if a video shoot from the light aircraft is typically a one off event an not specified in their employee's contract agreement, then it would be typical (probably a legal requirement, but I am not sure) that the 'major video company' would need insurance pursuant to the safety (death and injury coverage) for the one event.

On the other hand, if a Photographer (in Australia, for example) is 'employed' as a 'sub contractor' (which in simple terms means the Photographer has their own business and that business is 'hired' by the 'major video company') then the Photographer's business is generally responsible for insurance coverage for all aspects of the jobs that business undertakes including damage to persons and their property, and, typically the Photographer's death, illness or accidental incapacity as a result of said work - BUT - there could be a legal wrangle if the 'plane went down and the Photographer died and it was argued that the Pilot was at fault or the 'plane was faulty.      

Notwithstanding the above - the 'Ultra Light Aircraft' business is likely responsible for many aspects of insurance, including death of passengers, in many jurisdictions.

Insurance requirements for any business can be complex in nature, and legally precise in their execution: the complexity and precision of execution is exacerbated if the policy is written and executed in an actively litigious community.

WW               

 

[samstevens]

3 hours ago, Edwin Barkdoll said:

My question is: what type of insurance is usually in place during a shoot like this, particularly since the activity involves some risk?

I would recommend your friend ask the employer.

[Edwin Barkdoll]

2 hours ago, William Michael said:

Firstly - It would assist to know the location (jurisdiction) of the job: insurance cover where I generally work is different to that required in Hong Kong, as one example.

Secondly - Clarification is required - are you asking about what Insurance Coverage the Photographer would be required to have? - or - What Insurance Coverage the 'major video company' is required to have? - or - The aircraft company? - or - generally what are all the insurances policies applicable? etc.

Thirdly - the specific nature of the 'employment' is probably relevant: as one example if the Photographer is 'an employee of' the 'major video company' and that company is located in, for example Australia, then that company would (should) have insurance which generally covers the well-being of their 'employees' - however, if a video shoot from the light aircraft is typically a one off event an not specified in their employee's contract agreement, then it would be typical (probably a legal requirement, but I am not sure) that the 'major video company' would need insurance pursuant to the safety (death and injury coverage) for the one event.

On the other hand, if a Photographer (in Australia, for example) is 'employed' as a 'sub contractor' (which in simple terms means the Photographer has their own business and that business is 'hired' by the 'major video company') then the Photographer's business is generally responsible for insurance coverage for all aspects of the jobs that business undertakes including damage to persons and their property, and, typically the Photographer's death, illness or accidental incapacity as a result of said work - BUT - there could be a legal wrangle if the 'plane went down and the Photographer died and it was argued that the Pilot was at fault or the 'plane was faulty.      

Notwithstanding the above - the 'Ultra Light Aircraft' business is likely responsible for many aspects of insurance, including death of passengers, in many jurisdictions.

Insurance requirements for any business can be complex in nature, and legally precise in their execution: the complexity and precision of execution is exacerbated if the policy is written and executed in an actively litigious community.

WW               

 

Thanks for the feedback. Apologies for the vague nature of the question - the videographer is not at liberty to tell me more than “a job involving shooting from an ultralight.”
This is in the US. This is a general question about “what are all the insurance policies applicable.” This is her first job of this type.

She is a freelance, self-employed photographer.

[Edwin Barkdoll]

2 hours ago, samstevens said:

I would recommend your friend ask the employer.

Done.

[William Michael]

Do what samstevens advised and what I wrote should give a scaffold for questions she could ask. Insurance and employment relationships in the USA are similar to here in Aus. 

If she is still in doubt: she could get legal advice; she could become a member of a professional (photographers') association some might have that advice; in the USA there might be similar to here - we have "Insurance Brokers/Agents" these are specialists in the aspects of Insurance for Business and Private, however, their advice comes with a vested interest as they are also are selling a product.

Good Luck to her.      

WW

[William Michael]

Moderator Note - Originally posted in Casual Photo Conversations, I am now moving this thread to "Business of Photography".

[Ricochetrider]

Any freelance operator should have a liability policy in place to cover property damages on the job- as well as possible comprehensive coverage for their own gear. I’d advise she contact her insurance agent and ask that person about policy rider coverage for accidental death & injury- and/or ask for such coverage from the “major video company” as a one-off condition of employment under the job contract. 

Another good question to ask the employing “major” company is: who owns and operates the ultralight aircraft? Could be there’s a third player and I’d make sure their insurance is up to par. 

Additionally, in such a situation as described, I’d be thinking about PPE (personal protective equipment) such as a harness and lanyard or other fall protection- among other possible equipment. That’s a typical early question on any OTJ accident situation: “was PPE in place?” 

Best general policy, always: 

CYA 

[AlanKlein]

2 hours ago, Ricochetrider said:

Any freelance operator should have a liability policy in place to cover property damages on the job- as well as possible comprehensive coverage for their own gear. I’d advise she contact her insurance agent and ask that person about policy rider coverage for accidental death & injury- and/or ask for such coverage from the “major video company” as a one-off condition of employment under the job contract. 

Another good question to ask the employing “major” company is: who owns and operates the ultralight aircraft? Could be there’s a third player and I’d make sure their insurance is up to par. 

Additionally, in such a situation as described, I’d be thinking about PPE (personal protective equipment) such as a harness and lanyard or other fall protection- among other possible equipment. That’s a typical early question on any OTJ accident situation: “was PPE in place?” 

Best general policy, always: 

CYA 

She needs personal liability for herself as well in case someone gets hurt and sues her as a result of her actions.  I can't imagine the major studio hiring her doesn't have requirements to work for them as an independent contractor, just to protect themselves.  I'd check with them.   Usually personal liabilityt and property damage comes with Workmen;s Compensation insurance as well if she;s set up as a business. 

[Edwin Barkdoll]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions. Will pass along.

[PapaTango]

You may also wish to investigate "Errors & Omissions" (aka professional liability) insurance if doing regular commercial client work.  This protects you and your business from claims if a client sues for negligent acts, errors or omissions committed during business activities that result in a financial loss.

For many years I kept this along with traditional Liability insurance (accidents, damage, etcetera).  The average coverage for this is around $1M, but a smaller amount such as $250-500K serves a small operator well, and is a very reasonable cost for the protection it provides in this overly litigious society we inhabit.  

[AlanKlein]

55 minutes ago, PapaTango said:

You may also wish to investigate "Errors & Omissions" (aka professional liability) insurance if doing regular commercial client work.  This protects you and your business from claims if a client sues for negligent acts, errors or omissions committed during business activities that result in a financial loss.

For many years I kept this along with traditional Liability insurance (accidents, damage, etcetera).  The average coverage for this is around $1M, but a smaller amount such as $250-500K serves a small operator well, and is a very reasonable cost for the protection it provides in this overly litigious society we inhabit.  

Errors and omissions is more for architects and consulting engineers when they design something wrong. 

[PapaTango]

@AlanKlein that is one subset of application.  I carried it as both a consultant and contractor--working with the tangible and intangible.

E&O is a broad thing.  It protects you personally (or your practice) from any reasonable claims of financial loss due to your performance--or lack thereof.  Costs and coverages vary according to your business type, annual income, number of employees, and associated risk factors.  In the context of the commercial photographer, what about a lost shoot?  Or delays in delivery that cost the company a month's advertising revenue?

Just a suggestion, and increasingly cogent the larger and more important commercial projects one takes on.

[samstevens]

13 minutes ago, PapaTango said:

@AlanKlein that is one subset of application.  I carried it as both a consultant and contractor--working with the tangible and intangible.

E&O is a broad thing.  It protects you personally (or your practice) from any reasonable claims of financial loss due to your performance--or lack thereof.  Costs and coverages vary according to your business type, annual income, number of employees, and associated risk factors.  In the context of the commercial photographer, what about a lost shoot?  Or delays in delivery that cost the company a month's advertising revenue?

Just a suggestion, and increasingly cogent the larger and more important commercial projects one takes on.

True. I had a typesetting business for many years and had this kind of coverage. The bad thing was paying for it (not all that expensive in the scheme of things, to be honest). The good thing was never having to use it. 

[William Michael]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:37 AM, Edwin Barkdoll said:

the videographer is not at liberty to tell me more than “a job involving shooting from an ultralight.”
This is in the US. This is a general question about “what are all the insurance policies applicable.” This is her first job of this type.

Thinking on this over the past two days:

I am not a worry-wart by any stretch of the imagination, I am however, one, when doing business, to think through all the possibilities based upon the facts as I see them.

Irrespective of whether you were asked to ask this question or you asked simply because of your curiosity: based on what has been written, I reckon it is very important that your friend do her homework diligently and seek advice outside the "major video camera company" mentioned.

My advice, agreeing with samstevens, to ask the employer still stands, and so does the advice 'scaffold for questions she could ask' - in fact many responses here provide a more precise scaffold for her questions.

The message of this comment is: I suggest she be very thorough - it would be a mistake for a self employed person, ignorant and a first timer to a particular type of job, to seek advice only from the employer, especially if that job (as it appears), has a (large) degree of confidentiality to it.

WW         

[William Michael]

10 minutes ago, samstevens said:

The bad thing was paying for it . . . The good thing was never having to use it. 

I thought that is the definition of "Insurance"?

Clever (and probably very wealthy) person who thought up the concept.

WW

[samstevens]

10 minutes ago, William Michael said:

I thought that is the definition of "Insurance"?

Perhaps. I prefer to think that I just happened to be an ace typesetter, though I suppose both things can be true. 

[Ricochetrider]

6 hours ago, AlanKlein said:

She needs personal liability for herself as well in case someone gets hurt and sues her as a result of her actions.  I can't imagine the major studio hiring her doesn't have requirements to work for them as an independent contractor, just to protect themselves.  I'd check with them.   Usually personal liabilityt and property damage comes with Workmen;s Compensation insurance as well if she;s set up as a business. 

 

Currently, we know nothing at all about @Edwin Barkdoll 's friend. And we know zero about this "major" video company.

BUT I'm not one to read too much into the word "contractor".  Although things have tightened up quite a lot in recent years, many if not most major companies will get away with everything they can. "Hiring" a "contractor" could mean many things- with no guarantee that the "contractor" will even be 100% qualified, much less be paid decently. Nor does it mean the "company" gives a hoot about anything beside their own interests. There might not even BE a contract, hiring someone to accomplish a job, gig, or task could simply be a word of mouth arrangement of the loosest variety. The whole thing might be "on record" - or not.  

An actual, 100% legit contractor will have filled out an IRS Form W-9, and matching company HR & outside payroll entity paperwork too. AND be registered and/or licensed with the state or local municipality, having a certificate of insurance on record and a government issued contractor's number of some sort that IDs them, from the State Capitol to City Hall to curbside- as legitimate.  

i rode the "contractor" wave from top to bottom in all its changes since the 1980s. On one hand it's getting harder for companies and workers to conduct "freelance" operations; on the other hand, it's more prevalent than ever before, to have non-employees working alongside actual employees. It even has its whole own FInancial Sector: the Gig Economy sector.   

 

Anyway, flying around in an ultralight shooting a camera does sound like my kinda fun!