William Michael Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) . . . I appreciate the advice I've received here. It appears that I can take a risk and use Ektar 100 pushed for slight underexposure, f11 on my lens, aperture priority for the most part, and don't forget a tripod. I went ahead and ordered a few rolls of the film . . . Out of idle curiosity I did some of the research which I suggested to you. In the first instance I viewed, on Flickr, about a dozen of the type of shots that you have described. Those sporting a "dark sky" and the "balloon glow", typically were pulled around: F/2.8 @1/15s @ ISO 800. I think that you should re-think using Ektar 100. And also re-think using F/11. Here are some of the samples which I viewed: [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] WW Edited October 4, 2019 by William Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_hutcherson Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I would use a tripod personally. It's been quite a few years since I shot a balloon glow, and I did it on film. IIRC, I spot metered the balloons themselves and used that as my exposure, which is pretty much what I do(film or digital regardless) in any kind of extremely high contrast situation like a night scene with a bright objects that I'm trying to capture. I'm 99% sure the N90 has a spot metering mode, and if it's not explicitly marked by a circle in the center of the screen, put the AF point over what you want to spot meter and you should cover it. I'd also suggest manual so that you can meter what you need to and then recompose as needed. I've never been a big Portra person, as I find it a bit bland. With that said, the current Portra line is about as technically perfect of a color negative film as you will find for a given speed. Just a few weeks ago, I shot my first roll of Portra of any kind in a while, in this case Portra 400. It scanned beautifully(I wish I had examples handy to show, but don't and won't be able to get to them for a little while) and gave good results. With that said, it's been a while since I worked with any 400 speed color negative film, and I was shocked at how grainy it was compared to the 50/100 speed slide films I'm use to using, and especially the barely discernible from base ISO results on my full frame digitals. I was looking at them larger than one realistically would likely print, but still it kind of hit me in the face. There again, Portra 800 is about as good of an 800 speed film as you will find, but it's drastically worse in my experience than Portra 400. So, with that in mind, I'd suggest sticking to Ektar that you know and using a tripod. At this point also, I'd toss out any notion of pushing or pulling film. You can't change the ISO of a film-all changing the development time does is change the contrast. I've done it with reasonable results in B&W, but color is a whole different ball game. If you need a faster film, use it rather than trying to push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 Hi everyone, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who took some time out to ponder my questions and offer up some advice and suggestions. It's funny that not all of it is in agreement, but such is the nature of the beast. I have a tripod, my F90X, some Ektar 100, and the gently used Nikon MC-20 release came in the mail today. Hopefully I'll end up with something to show for all of this. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I confess it was dusk, rather than night. The balloon was being inflated. Like all slide films of the day, there was very little latitude. I was probably going for saturation and shooting at EI 80 If I were shooting film today, I'd use Ektar 100 Ambient Light [ATTACH=full]1312707[/ATTACH] Ok, I found this: Film Review: Kodak Ektar 100 by Night – On Film Only The forth pic is what I'm talking about. The sign might be brighter and whiter than a glowing balloon, but the principle is the same. Photographer said he exposed for the highlights, which I'm gonna guess means that he metered on the sign. So, the sign dominates the photo, but the dark areas of the pic weren't ruined. There are still some details. All the pics were taken in low light using Ektar 100 in low light. Some of them may lean a bit toward cyan, but they all have appeal. This shows that it can be done. I've been shooting some Ektar 100, I'll post a couple pix I shot at dusk or after and you can see what mine look like, can't seem to drag em into this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 These 2 pix are recent. from early September. Caution, file size might be pretty big, if you choose to click on this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 These 2 pix are recent. from early September. Caution, file size might be pretty big, if you choose to click on this... [ATTACH=full]1313965[/ATTACH] This one proves that what I want to do is possible, and it looks really good. Did you happen to remember the technical details, like lens size, f-stop, shutter speed etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grh Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I grew up in Albuquerque, and have been going back to the Albuquerque International Balloon Fiesta for several years now. Here are some shots taken with a Nikon D5100 (crop sensor), ISO 3200, 1/100s @ f/5. I can't comment on film (never used it, never will) but this might give you a reference point for deciding what to do. FWIW, glows are awesome. Enjoy your time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 This one [View attachment 1313965] proves that what I want to do is possible, and it looks really good. Did you happen to remember the technical details, like lens size, f-stop, shutter speed etc? Not really, not proof. The lighting scenario of a Fair Ground at night is different to your aim of capturing the glow of Hot Air Balloons at night. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Not really, not proof. The lighting scenario of a Fair Ground at night is different to your aim of capturing the glow of Hot Air Balloons at night. WW Yes, there are some differences, but the overall theme is the same. Dark sky and colorful lights. The balloons might be brighter, depending on how close I'm willing and able to get. But the shooter was able to preserve the contrast between the sky and the bright lights. I'm thinking about just taking my 50mm f1:1.8 and seeing what happens. It might limit the ability to get those "group" balloon shots, but it's nice and sharp and doesn't take up much space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 This one proves that what I want to do is possible, and it looks really good. Did you happen to remember the technical details, like lens size, f-stop, shutter speed etc? Honestly, I don't recall. I'd been shooting with the 180mm lens but pretty certain this was the 80. Too many frames under the bridge between now and then, I should write these things down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Yes, there are some differences, but the overall theme is the same. Dark sky and colorful lights. The balloons might be brighter, depending on how close I'm willing and able to get. But the shooter was able to preserve the contrast between the sky and the bright lights. I'm thinking about just taking my 50mm f1:1.8 and seeing what happens. It might limit the ability to get those "group" balloon shots, but it's nice and sharp and doesn't take up much space. The 'theme' is the same, yes. However - the point of the commentary was that the Exposure required to capture the Fair Ground activities lit by Electric Lights and the Exposure required to capture the glow of the material of a Balloon, lit by a Flame will likely be much different I'd guess is that the Balloon Glow will require more Exposure, not less. I think that if you are committed to using 100 ISO Film, then taking a lens that can open to F/1.8 is a very good idea: you can always stop it down and/or use a faster shutter speed for a bright scene, but a fast lens is very useful if you are stuck on ISO100 with a relatively Dark Scene and Subject Movement. WW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Wouldn't a faster lens almost always be better for low light photography? Not that I know a lot but I'd guess you have more flexibility with a fast lens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Wouldn't a faster lens almost always be better for low light photography? Not that I know a lot but I'd guess you have more flexibility with a fast lens? Yes. Pretty much "always": especially when using Film, as is the OP's want, (i.e. less capacity to bump the ISO on demand unlike the case of a digital camera) and also as the OP has committed to ISO100 Film where there is already less wiggle-room (as opposed to using, for example ISO800 Film). I'm sure that there'd be a few pedantic arguments for using a better quality slower lens than a poorer quality faster lens in some situations, but, (again in this case) where the situation will consider Subject Movement, the faster lens is a much safer bet. The OP's 50/1.8 is Speedy Gonzales compared to his Sigma 28-70mm F/3.5~4.5, which at FL=50mm would typically have a maximum aperture of F/4.5... the 50 Prime is 2 2/3 stops faster... so, in the case that he does need to pull the shot at 1/8s with the Prime at F/1.8, he'd be pulling around 1Second with the zoom at 50mm, that difference may be the difference between too much Subject Movement rendering most of the negs. U/S, or, on the other hand, getting a relative high amount of Keepers. As I have alluded all along in this conversation, I have no firsthand experience as to what Shutter Speeds will be required using ISO100 Film to make Balloon Glows against dark night skies: I have only been pushing the point of view for the OP to make first hand research of exactly those details, and, at the least be prepared for Low Light Photography, where there will likely be Subject Movement. WW Addendum: Considering it is 2019 and where Digital Photography sits - "Very Fast Lenses" are mostly always Prime Lenses (i.e.not Zoom Lenses). I think that there are presently two Sigma Telephoto "Art" Lenses at F/1.8 and both cover only the image circle of an APS-C Sensor, there may be others: but in the main a "Very Fast Zoom" is at F/2.8, yet (some relatively inexpensive) Primes can make F/1.8 and F/1.4 and for more spend we acquire F/1.2, F/1.0 and as an extreme example, I have a 35mm F/0.95. So, as a general comment, for the 24mm to 100mm Focal Lengths we can get two more stops from a Prime than a Zoom. However - the "need" for very fast Primes for Low Light Photography where there is Subject Movement has dramatically lessened over the last 10 years, or so. The advance of Digital Cameras in the aspect of High Quality High ISO has made this so. As one simple and practical example: in 2004~2010, I (and others) were advising budding Wedding Photographers to have at least one fast prime (F/1.4 or F/1.8), personally, I preferred the idea of two, for several reasons, a fast 35 and a fast 85 (on "full frame format digital"), nowadays my script has changed: a good quality modern digital camera and a quality 24 to 70/2.8 can eat up the low light stuff with ease and simplicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Thanks, all good solid information there. I think, in this situation I’d probably take a roll of whatever film I wanted to shoot, my camera and a couple different lenses, and so shot test shots, on something like bright, colorful neon lights at dusk and after- I’d make copious notes, and see how things turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Thanks, all good solid information there. I think, in this situation I’d probably take a roll of whatever film I wanted to shoot, my camera and a couple different lenses, and so shot test shots, on something like bright, colorful neon lights at dusk and after- I’d make copious notes, and see how things turn out. That's the problem... Getting practice. The event is next Friday night. The weather is being less than cooperative right now. I say that less because I'll melt in the rain, but more because clouds lighten up the sky some. The forecast is for a cool, clear evening for the event itself. I'm also not sure I would be able to get a roll of film processed quickly enough ahead of time to see what worked and what didn't. I'll see what I can do during the week, but there's a chance my trial run might be the event itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomspielman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) The easy thing to do would be to take your test shots on a digital camera with the ISO set at whatever film speed you intend to use. If you don't have a DLSR available, get a camera app for your phone that allows for manual settings of ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. You could probably do a little testing ahead of time by shooting a light through stained glass at night or behind some translucent material I'd also recommend a tripod, shooting the balloons while on the ground (not moving), and hoping for a calm night. If the shutter speeds are going to be slow, - and they probably will be, a remote shutter release or using the self timer to trigger the shutter might be a good idea. Edited October 28, 2019 by tomspielman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 The easy thing to do would be to take your test shots on a digital camera with the ISO set at whatever film speed you intend to use. If you don't have a DLSR available, get a camera app for your phone that allows for manual settings of ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. You could probably do a little testing ahead of time by shooting a light through stained glass at night or behind some translucent material I'd also recommend a tripod, shooting the balloons while on the ground (not moving), and hoping for a calm night. If the shutter speeds are going to be slow, - and they probably will be, a remote shutter release or using the self timer to trigger the shutter might be a good idea. Yes, I was planning to take the tripod and purchased a wired remote release to use with the Nikon. The balloons are supposed to be tethered, so up/down movement won't be an issue. So far, weather forecast is calling for a cool, clear, and relatively calm evening, so maybe there won't be much side/side movement. I'm not too intimidated by doing this, but I do know that the shots need to be able to stay at around 4 seconds or less due to Ektar's tendency toward cyan shifting. As far as a digital camera goes, I have a Kodak EasyShare P880 that works. Seems like its lens at 28mm is around f1:2.8 IIRC. It can be operated in full manual mode and has a tripod attachment. However, it does not have provision for a remote release. It has a 2-second shutter delay for tripod-mounted situations. I would take it with me, but I haven't had it long enough to really learn how to use it well in a situation like Friday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 HI, After this event, will you please show us your images when you get them sorted and stuff? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 HI, After this event, will you please show us your images when you get them sorted and stuff? Sure, if I got anything, I'll share it. I'm keeping my expectations a little low, though. Aside from the technical challenges that have been mentioned here, the festival itself was a bit of a bust with regards to the balloon glow. I did use a whole roll of Ektar, so maybe i was able to get something worth seeing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 . . . I did use a whole roll of Ektar, so maybe i was able to get something worth seeing. Have you developed the film yet? What was the outcome? WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 Have you developed the film yet? What was the outcome? WW I just shipped the film, along with a couple of other rolls, to Process One, so it shouldn't be too long before something comes back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Roger that. I am interested in the outcome, because I shall be interested what you learned from the exercise. WW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamtk1974 Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 I have some pictures I can share, but I'm not sure how to get them in here. I try to copy the link from Dropbox, and all I get is that broken IMG thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G. Dainis Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Save the photos on your computer. On this page at the bottom next to "Post Reply" click on "Upload a File" then click on "Browse" and click on the picture that you want to use. James G. Dainis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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