steve_g2 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Clearly they don't care. Some of the serial numbers will become known by Nikon corporate, lots more could be discovered with a little more sophisticated investigation. The responsible party could be dealt with by Nikon if they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Hi, I would appreciate your opinions on this : I just bought a new Nikon D850. (At Rhinocamera I found it online for the lowest price.) Now that I've unboxed it, I notice that there are no warranty papers included, and that the serial number on the box does not match the number on the camera. The serial number on my camera is 9106723. In the list here above of roland_vink I see no numbers starting with 9 for the D850. I only see those numbers (9000001- 9133369) for the D610. That is quite confusing ! Is this a Gray market camera, intended for another market that is smuggled into Europe (avoiding taxes probably)? And no official warrant is the price I pay for trying to save 300€ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Hi, I would appreciate your opinions on this : I just bought a new Nikon D850. (At Rhinocamera I found it online for the lowest price.) Now that I've unboxed it, I notice that there are no warranty papers included, and that the serial number on the box does not match the number on the camera. The serial number on my camera is 9106723. In the list here above of roland_vink I see no numbers starting with 9 for the D850. I only see those numbers (9000001- 9133369) for the D610. The EXIF info gives me yet another serial number ( 8814292) . That is quite confusing ! Does anyone know which number is the true serial number ? Should I report this to Nikon ? Who puts all the efforts in changing the serial numbers of camera's? Is this a Gray market camera, intended for another market that is smuggled into Europe (avoiding taxes probably)? And having no official warrant is the price I pay for trying to save 300€ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Wow, what a number conundrum! Aslong as EXIF IDs it as a Nikon D850, I'd not worry too much. However, if it's actually been stolen somewhere along the line that may be a different issue. Like swapping the VIN numbers on cars... Is this your's? https://www.rhinocamera.com/product.aspx?ProductID=22079 Err try here Nikon D850 Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) From rhinocamera's website it appears that a 5-year warranty is offered - apparently by rhinocamera itself. That and the absence of original Nikon paperwork most certainly indicates a gray market import. Whether or not their own warranty is worth anything, I don't know (and hopefully you won't have to find out). The reviews on sitejabber.com (whatever that's worth) aren't bad at all; those for rhinocamera.de aren't either (apparently the same company). Rhinocamera is part of PHL group - from this Dutch court case that stands for Primary Holdings Limited of Gibraltar: Google Translate - rhinocamera certainly doesn't appear to be at good terms with Nikon. Don't know where you're located - have you tried registering your camera with Nikon? the serial number on the box does not match the number on the camera Certainly disconcerting. Could indicate that the camera isn't new or a customer return. What's the shutter count on your camera? Edited September 9, 2020 by Dieter Schaefer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Thanks for the replies ! I live in Belgium. It is my personal camera. The shutter count is 100. Those are my first 100 shots ;-). So it is new camera ! I registered my camera with Nikon, and I also contacted them about this situation. The reply said that the serial number on the camera is correct ( ' the one on the EXIF is provided by Lightroom, and could be wrong' ...;-). It is a camera that was intended for the Chinese market. How Rhinocamera got hold of it, they don't know... They also suggested that I could contact Rhinocamera to send me warrant papers. The camera is new and genuine, that is the positive news for me ! I just hope no problems occur in the first years, because I doubt it that I will get the warrant situation solved with Rhinocamera. Today, I read some reviews concerning Rhinocamera, warrants and repairs ; They have a horrible reputation if it comes to that. I would suggest to everyone here to stay away from them. It is not worth the risk ! Thanks once more for the input ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 The serial number on the bottom of the camera body should match the serial number in the EXIF data. I suppose it could be an error during manufacturing. If everything else checks out OK, I would ask Nikon to correct that in the electronics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 The serial number on the bottom of the camera body should match the serial number in the EXIF data. I suppose it could be an error during manufacturing. If everything else checks out OK, I would ask Nikon to correct that in the electronics. Yes, I thought so too. The reply from Nikon the the EXIF info came from ADOBE (Lightroom) and not from Nikon, so they cannot confirm that the info is correct, was disappointing. I checked the EFIX on Lightroom with my former Nikon camera and the serial numbers match ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Yes, I thought so too. The reply from Nikon the the EXIF info came from ADOBE (Lightroom) and not from Nikon, so they cannot confirm that the info is correct, was disappointing. I checked the EFIX on Lightroom with my former Nikon camera and the serial numbers match ... If that is what Nikon told you, they were telling you some complete nonsense. Your D850 writes the EXIF onto the image files, be it NEF or JPEG. Adobe merely displays the EXIF data imbedded in the Nikon NEF/JPEG files. I suppose it is possible that Nikon's factory messed up the serial number on the bottom plate of your D850 and the number stored in the electronics inside so that they don't match. However, most likely the serial number on that D850 has been switched. Therefore, I have concerns where this D850 has come from. If it were me, I would return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanKlein Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Nikon's gray market link page. Nikon Shopping Help | Gray Market Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Nikon's gray market link page. Nikon Shopping Help | Gray Market << These often are genuine Nikon products that were intended for other countries; therefore, they may not meet Nikon’s specifications for US products or perform as expected, >> Hmm, this doesn't seem to make sense. So Nikon admits they make "inferior products" for other countries? Do these countries know that? (e.g., UK, Canada). US companies (even B&H) sell gray market products too. I had bought gray market products too. Never a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 they may not meet Nikon’s specifications for US products or perform as expected, I'm not sure it means inferior? Although not perform "as expected'", is kinda weak. "Specifications" could be something as simple as the wrong plug adapter for the charger....;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) Nikon's gray market link page. Nikon Shopping Help | Gray Market Nearly the same wording is used on the Nikon Europe website: https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?lang=nl_NL&articleNo=000004838 - though I believe consumer protection laws in Europe prohibit Nikon Europe from not providing service for gray market imports - but you will most likely have to pay for those services as the products don't come with the correct warranty paperwork (or any at all). NikonUSA just plain refuses to work on these gray market imports at all; hence the differences in wording between the NikonUSA and the Nikon Europe websites on that aspect. +1 to what Mike said above; there aren't any differences in the cameras or products themselves (though there might be country-specific certification paperwork missing). IIRC, Sony cameras for the Japanese market may not allow to change the language from Japanese and won't allow to load firmware written for other countries. The only way this gray market nonsense is going to stop if camera manufacturers are giving up their regional pricing policies - which I doubt will happen anytime soon. Camera manufacturers are often involved in these gray market games themselves - dumping cameras into one cheaper market well knowing that a lot of them will end up as gray imports elsewhere while also bumping the sales figures for the area they have been dumped into. Therefore, I have concerns where this D850 has come from. If it were me, I would return it. I would too - especially since it now turns out that not only does the serial number on the box not match the one on the camera, but the one in the EXIF doesn't match the one on the camera either (does the EXIF one match the one on the box?). Something smells definitely fishy here. Though I expect that returning the camera may not be easy. Edited September 11, 2020 by Dieter Schaefer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik-Christensen Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 Rhinocamera advertise that they are in Gibraltar and part of EU, however, non of the products have never seen the shadow of Gibraltar, they are all shipped from HKG and quite a few European customers have faced a bill for import duties and VAT etc. Warranty claims is according to my knowledge something special. Cameras with a warranty claim in Denmark, has to be sent to an letter box address, the company is not registered at the place. What I here from Denmark, it is mainly first time buyers, who buy from Rhinocamera, as many of them have burned their fingers. cedricvandenbossche - did you pay import duty and VAT and in case of warranty claim where did they tell you to send it - I am aware of the missing warranty papers, as they were only valid in HKG. Danes call it a scam company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Williams Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) I would too - especially since it now turns out that not only does the serial number on the box not match the one on the camera, but the one in the EXIF doesn't match the one on the camera either (does the EXIF one match the one on the box?). Something smells definitely fishy here. Though I expect that returning the camera may not be easy.So there are 3 different serial numbers, or do 2 of them match? The electronic serial number is the only one that can't be tampered with, and so is the most reliable. It has nothing to do with Adobe - take an image straight off the media card without using Lightroom and upload it to: Jeffrey Friedl's Image Metadata Viewer and you should see the same number in the 'Serial Number' field under MakerNotes (MakerNotes are metadata fields specific to a camera manufacturer - here Nikon is reponsible for them, not any third party). But perhaps the Nikon rep just doesn't want to endorse the output of a program that isn't under Nikon's control. In theory, third party software could be reading the serial number incorrectly (though that's extremely unlikely). Edited September 12, 2020 by Richard Williams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Jeffrey Friedl's Image Metadata Viewer What a neat useful tool! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erincottee Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 There is no way to fake a camera that you don't know because making a fake camera to perform any where near the original is more expensive than the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 So there are 3 different serial numbers, or do 2 of them match? The electronic serial number is the only one that can't be tampered with, and so is the most reliable. It has nothing to do with Adobe - take an image straight off the media card without using Lightroom and upload it to: Jeffrey Friedl's Image Metadata Viewer and you should see the same number in the 'Serial Number' field under MakerNotes (MakerNotes are metadata fields specific to a camera manufacturer - here Nikon is reponsible for them, not any third party). But perhaps the Nikon rep just doesn't want to endorse the output of a program that isn't under Nikon's control. In theory, third party software could be reading the serial number incorrectly (though that's extremely unlikely). The box does not have a serial number. Only a bar code with a number underneath. That number is not related to the serial number. I can clearly feel that a sticker hes been removed from the box! So I have 2 numbers : The serial number on the camera bottom and a different one in the EXIF. NIKON asked me to give them the serial number in the SNAPBRIDGE MENU. That number matches the one in the EXIF. They also wanted to know the FIRMWARE version, which is C. 1.11 and LD. 2.018. They now also agreed that the EXIF number I got from Lightroom should match the one on the camera, and that the information from ADOBE LIGHTROOM is correct. Rhinocamera's claim that the serial number from the EXIF is the serial number of my lens is absolute nonsense ! How I regret buying the camera there! But there is no way I can send it back without getting into more trouble ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 So there are 3 different serial numbers, or do 2 of them match? The electronic serial number is the only one that can't be tampered with, and so is the most reliable. It has nothing to do with Adobe - take an image straight off the media card without using Lightroom and upload it to: Jeffrey Friedl's Image Metadata Viewer and you should see the same number in the 'Serial Number' field under MakerNotes (MakerNotes are metadata fields specific to a camera manufacturer - here Nikon is reponsible for them, not any third party). But perhaps the Nikon rep just doesn't want to endorse the output of a program that isn't under Nikon's control. In theory, third party software could be reading the serial number incorrectly (though that's extremely unlikely). Thanks for the link to Jeffrey Friedl's Image Metadata Viewer ! For my camera it read the same serial number as the on my EXIF. Presumably the sticker with the serial number on my camera is a fake ... Although NIKON, in their first reply confirmed that the number on the camera is correct. I'm not yet at the bottom of this ! Thanks for the help ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedricvandenbossche Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Rhinocamera advertise that they are in Gibraltar and part of EU, however, non of the products have never seen the shadow of Gibraltar, they are all shipped from HKG and quite a few European customers have faced a bill for import duties and VAT etc. Warranty claims is according to my knowledge something special. Cameras with a warranty claim in Denmark, has to be sent to an letter box address, the company is not registered at the place. What I here from Denmark, it is mainly first time buyers, who buy from Rhinocamera, as many of them have burned their fingers. cedricvandenbossche - did you pay import duty and VAT and in case of warranty claim where did they tell you to send it - I am aware of the missing warranty papers, as they were only valid in HKG. Danes call it a scam company. It is a scam company, that is for sure. But I found that out too late ... I have the camera now, and I cannot sent it back because there is no guarantee at all that I will get my money back from a company like that! Since I bought the camera, I read many complaints by Rhinocamera customers from Germany, Denmark and other European countries. I would not dare to return the camera or to let them repair it ! My camera was shipped from the UNITED KINGDOM. I did not have to pay any import duties ... I've reported this to NIKON ,I'll see what they make of this all. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Rhinocamera's claim that the serial number from the EXIF is the serial number of my lens is absolute nonsense ! How I regret buying the camera there! But there is no way I can send it back without getting into more trouble ... Since your camera is a D850, that is completely nonsense. However, on Nikon mirrorless Z bodies, if you also mount a native Nikon Z-mount lens on them, the image EXIF data will contain both the camera's serial number and the lens' serial number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Doo Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I have the camera now, and I cannot sent it back because there is no guarantee at all that I will get my money back from a company like that! Not only that, they may send you another one with another set of issues. Sorry about your trouble. On the positive side, the camera does perform as a D850 would - (right?). This is the more important thing. If it ends up not being registered with Nikon (talk with them and see what happens), it is probably not a big deal anyway because most equipment do not need service anyway. it's a good idea to check customer feedback before buying from any non-major companies. I do this especially when buying from eBay companies and have not had a problem. Good luck! :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanKlein Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Could cameras be going out the back door of where they are manufactured for Nikon especially if it's in China or Thailand? So the OEM manufacturer uses phoney serial numbers so Nikon doesn't even know they were manufactured. 1 Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsonfarthing Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Hey, I doubt there are any fully functioning fake copies of Nikon DSLRs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 So I have 2 numbers : The serial number on the camera bottom and a different one in the EXIF. So apart from the serial number mismatch, is there anything actually wrong with the camera? I believe that something as simple as changing a damaged body panel can entail having a new serial number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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