Elon Musk's Cherry Red Tesla Roadster In Space Images

[Wouter Willemse]

Having criticism on Elon Musk doesn't mean that the person delivering that criticism must present a better solution himself. There is nothing wrong with expressing doubts, as long as they're reasoned, balanced and considering that alternatives would be needed or possible.

Plus, there is a difference between criticism on how Elon Musk does things, why he does things and what he does.

 

The how - well, let me put it mildly: his way of presenting things isn't mine. Putting a car up in orbit - for me, it doesn't add anything really. Nice photos, but ultimately also photos that seem useless to me.

 

The why - can't really fault him there, and since he's mostly putting up his own money (as far as I know anyway), it appears to me as a genuine desire and drive to do what he does. I appreciate that drive.

 

The what - this is where things do get messy. Tesla continues to loose money, so the case that electric cars are the future doesn't seem that clear cut yet. Also, we might solve one ecological issue with going from fossil-fuel to electricity, it introduces new ecological problems (=manufactering of batteries is far from clean) and electricity generation itself isn't clean in most places in the world - being either coal or oil based, it's the same evil, just elsewhere. At the same time, the cars include improvements that are worth the effort. SpaceX is likewise complicated: yes, governments stopped spending money on space-travel while we're increasingly dependent on satellites, and the commercial interest in satellites is real. Still, do we really want commercial efforts there, or maybe a bit of regulation isn't all that bad? If SpaceX provokes the discussion - that's good. If it storms ahead and unleashes commercial exploitation of space, I'm not too sold on the idea.

 

So, the achievements of Musk, real as they are, deserve criticism for the simple fact that those achievements provoke discussion, and those discussions are worth having. For me, provoking those discussions are the real achievements, not a car in orbit (nice as the photos are).

[Ed_Ingold]

We never learned whether Harold Hill could actually play a trombone, nor have we seen Elon Musk deliver the Tesla 3 cars he promised. There is no space between "Conn" and "con."

[Moving On]

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt

A careful read of the quote in the context of this thread suggests it's ill suited as a rebuttal of what I posted.

Somehow I don't see TR as being terribly enthusiastic about converting worthy endeavors to such things as dumping cars in space for photo ops.

[Moving On]

"in the country of the blind, the one eyed man is king." You appreciate / get it or you don't. I am not a great fan of Mr. Musk, but his considerable achievements outweigh those of his critics.

 

His considerable achievements outweigh this, by far.

If his critics are to be limited to billionaire entrepreneurs, I expect none here is qualified to comment.

If he brings it back to earth in a year or two, gets in it and drives off, that would be nice.......

Edited February 13, 2018 by Moving On

[Norma Desmond]

We never learned whether Harold Hill could actually play a trombone, nor have we seen Elon Musk deliver the Tesla 3 cars he promised. There is no space between "Conn" and "con."

Hey! Don’t sell the professor short. He recognized the evils of pool playing among teenagers and connected Trouble to Pool via the rhyming of a Capital T with a Capital P, foreshadowing rap with an otherwise very Broadway musical number. :)

 

To be fair, Musk’s resume has a whole lot more depth than Hill’s, though Hill gets the recalcitrant librarian in the end, which may well be more important than anything Musk ever accomplishes.

[tomspielman]

PN Guidelines: Post only photos you, yourself, have taken. That’s the reason Mark LINKED to the photos instead of posting them.

 

Noted

_________________________________________________________

 

 

The what - this is where things do get messy. Tesla continues to loose money, so the case that electric cars are the future doesn't seem that clear cut yet. Also, we might solve one ecological issue with going from fossil-fuel to electricity, it introduces new ecological problems (=manufactering of batteries is far from clean) and electricity generation itself isn't clean in most places in the world - being either coal or oil based, it's the same evil, just elsewhere. At the same time, the cars include improvements that are worth the effort. SpaceX is likewise complicated: yes, governments stopped spending money on space-travel while we're increasingly dependent on satellites, and the commercial interest in satellites is real. Still, do we really want commercial efforts there, or maybe a bit of regulation isn't all that bad? If SpaceX provokes the discussion - that's good. If it storms ahead and unleashes commercial exploitation of space, I'm not too sold on the idea.

 

Whether Tesla succeeds in the long run or not is a separate question from whether or not electric cars are the future. I see it as almost inevitable that electric cars will make up a major a portion of our vehicle population in future decades for lots of different reasons. As far as the environment goes, it's true that if your electricity comes entirely from a coal, there are ICE cars that would be better choices. Any car that averages 30 mph or better would make that cut. But even in my area of the country coal is responsible for only a portion of the power generation. You'd need a car that averages 40 mph or better to produce less CO2 than an electric vehicle. And in the next couple of decades as ancient coal plants come offline and are replaced with something else, - even gas turbines, the equivalent mph requirement only gets higher.

[Ed_Ingold]

You'd need a car that averages 40 mph or better to produce less CO2 than an electric vehicle.

As I figure (being a STEM player), electric cars run largely on coal (40%) and natural gas (35%) and oil. Unless you are fortunate enough to commute less than 25 miles, or have an employer like Microsoft which provides charging stations, gasoline is a fact of life for the foreseeable future. Iceland has filling stations for hydrogen powered cars. Unfortunately the number one "greenhouse" gas is water vapor. Hydrogen is generated using electricity, which with the exception of Iceland, comes mostly from hydrocarbon combustion.

 

Non-STEM majors can suspend their disbelief at the ads where the guy plugs a cable to his car, bragging how "this is my gas pump." That isn't how things work in reality..

[tomspielman]

The electric utility in my neck of the woods is Xcel Energy. In 2005 53% of their power came from coal. By 2015 it was 43% and by 2030 it will be down to 30% so the equation starts to flip in favor of electric vehicles.

 

I do agree that range is an issue and I think that in 20 years people will still be buying ICE vehicles along with electric vehicles for that reason, but most people in the US commute 15 miles or less each way. Demographics will flip things in favor of electric vehicles as well since car ownership is not as high of a priority among younger generations. Uber has a well known interest in either buying or building a large fleet of electric autonomous vehicles.

 

It might be a small change in how to look at things but in my family no one individual has a car. The family owns two cars and we currently have 3 drivers. There's no reason (other than we are really cheap) that we couldn't replace one car with an electric vehicle and use it for trips within its range, - which 95% of our trips are.

 

Internal combustion engines won't disappear completely (just like film hasn't) but I'd guess that in my lifetime, a true "gas station" will have gone the way of little one hour photo labs. Still around but harder and harder to find.

Edited February 13, 2018 by tomspielman

[Allen Herbert]

"electric cars are the future. I see it as almost inevitable that electric cars will make up a major a portion of our vehicle population in future decades for lots of different reasons. "Fred

 

And that's the way the cookie will crumble.

 

It is is just matter of time before our planet is destroyed by eternal forces or most probably by ourselves...ourselves, the species we name ourselves as humanity.

 

Those among humanity who contribution to finding new homes for ourselves among the stars...what should we name them?

 

'Space the final frontier" yes, I've been watching too much star trek.....but the fiction is often followed... by a desire.

 

Maybe the desire is the fiction.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Allen Herbert

[tomspielman]

Yes, eventually the sun will die and long before that the earth become another Venus and won't be able to support life as we know it. That's a long ways off and I tend to be pretty optimistic about our prospect for long term survival on this planet vs finding somewhere else. Doesn't mean things will always be rosy and that there won't be adaptations and changes required.

[Allen Herbert]

Tomorrow always comes.

 

Sitting on one little burning ember racing through space to the end of time....well, when there's a whole universe to explore.

 

Sort of like living in a pot hole in the ground....hey, i'm a happy pot hole person.

[Norma Desmond]

"electric cars are the future. I see it as almost inevitable that electric cars will make up a major a portion of our vehicle population in future decades for lots of different reasons. "Fred

Allen, I didn't say this. Wouter did.

 

FYI: If you highlight the text you want to quote with your cursor, you should get a little box that says REPLY. Just click on that and the quote will appear in your text box with the original poster's name already attached to it. What you'll get is what you see above, which is how I got your quote attributed correctly to you. You have several times attributed quotes to the wrong people. Doing it this way should prevent such mistakes.

[tomspielman]

Allen, I didn't say this. Wouter did.

 

 

Actually, it was me. ;)

[Norma Desmond]

Actually, it was me. ;)

Sorry about that, Tom. I knew I hadn't said it, so I did a search for "electric cars are the future" and it went right to Wouter's post. I should've added a couple more words and the search would have found your post!