Mass Processing of B&W Film

[new hampshire john]

Heya, folks -

 

Hope you're all warmer than we are here in New Hampshire this morning.

 

I've got a question about film processing. We've just moved, and I

haven't got the dander up to set up another full darkroom in the

basement. I go through many many rolls of B&W film, and was thinking

about getting one of those table-top film processors that controls

temp, time & agitation to bulk-process the film once or twice a

month. Any suggestions out there? I was looking at the various JOBO

or Nova-type things, and wondered if there was one or another that

was particularly geared to mass processing (minimum 4 rolls of 35mm

at a time, 6 would be better).

 

Also, any concerns about rotary processing? JOBO seems to tout its bi-

directional roller agitation as avoiding streaks -- any thoughts? Is

rolling necessarily better/worse/more predictable than the inversion

method?

 

Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[andrew_hull]

John:

 

I started using a CPE2 that I got used from B&H in NY for next to nothing. I can process 5 rolls of 35 and intermingle any 1120 film that I may have shot in the tank (of course at teh expense of space for 35mm). I enjoy the rotary process as it uses very little amount of chemicals (500ml plus a little) of developer, stop, and fix, per FIVE rolls of film. I find I am able to maintain my temperature very closely. The lift attachment is very nice enabling me to fill and dump chemicals quickly and neatly. I load all of my film in the tank in a light tight closet and then process with the processor in my bath tub. One other note, although "they" recommend reducing development time to compensate for the constant agitiation, I found that my actual dewvelopment times are right about recommendation, maybe -5%, not the 15-20% that some have spoken of, just my two cents. Also, the automatical rolling I imagine is more consistent than inversion. So you have managed to control agitation and temperature, time is up to you.

[al_kaplan1]

It's a delightful 70 degrees here in Miami. Thank you for caring :-).

 

I use stainless steel tanks and reels. The 4 reel tanks take about 30 oz. of solution. My standard soup is D-76 1:1 which puts my developing times in the 8 to 11 minute range for Tri-X depending on temperature. I have two each of 1,2 and 4 reel tanks. For "mass processing", which is rarely more than 8 rolls, I'll start one tank. When I get to about 4 minutes I'll start the second tank. I find it no problem to hand agitate the two tanks, and do whatever pouring and refilling is required. All my tanks, lids and caps are color coded and numbered with Dymo tape to avoid confusion. I have 12 reels so as soon as the first batch is in the dryer I can start third tank. If I work fast I can actually do about 20 rolls to bone dry in about three hours.

 

I've never had any uneven development or streaking problems using the stainless steel tanks and reels. Other people have had problems using my stuff because I have a motley collection of Nikor, 2 generations of Kinderman, and Acura reels with an assortment of center clips or lack there-of. I know each reel by feel so to me it's no problem.

[david_goldfarb]

How much is "mass"? Have you considered setting up a tank line with cages that hold 20 or more rolls at a time?

[art_haykin]

I became a pro WAY back when B&W was still king as a custom lab working out of my home, the lower half of a small duplex, though I did do many shooting assignments. I started with a ragbag collection of stainless tanks and wire reels, and a plastic tank for 4x5. In time, I acquired a 6 and an 8 reel tank, then, in more time, I went to 3 1/2 gallon tanks and a 36 reel basket into which you could crowd 40 rolls, and also do 8x10. Frankly, I don't consider under 20 rolls a day as "mass" processing, but opinions will differ. I had a widely differing clientel, so I maintained 3 large tanks of developer: Microdol-X, D-76, and Acufine, which were all popular in those days, and I used the small tanks for special work using other developers on demand.Are you also going to forego building a darkroom for printing? Small, tabletop processors are fine if you can find one to suit your needs, volume, and quality requirements, and for the right price.

[david_goldfarb]

My largest stainless steel tank holds 8 35mm reels or 4 medium format reels. It's manageable, and not too unusual that I might have 8 or 10 rolls of 120 to process, and they probably need to be in more than one batch anyway, so for these kinds of quantities, the traditional stainless tanks work fine for me.

[new hampshire john]

Thanks for the answers thus far. I guess I was thinking I'd be doing something in the zone of 8-12 rolls, but because I'll be foregoing setting up my enlarger (I'll either just not print for a while or think about scanning), I'm not in a rush, so could wait until I had 20-30 rolls. I guess also implicated here is the compactness factor -- I tend to be pretty messy in the darkroom, and have crappy water temperature control, so the self-contained, self-heat-regulating kits looked pretty attractive. I must say, I'm intrigued by larger-amount processing (30+ rolls at a time) -- are those baskets light-tight rigs, or are they used in total darkness? It looks like I'm leaning towards the desktop rolling JOBO-type kits, I guess.

 

Again, thanks for the most helpful comments (except the Miami reference, pal -- that's out of line -- we're under a wind-chill advisory here in the middle of the afternoon).

 

John

[andrew_hull]

Not that you asked for the adivce, John, but I found the best economical "dryer" is a plastic garment bag for storing coats in the closet. It zips shut and has a bar at the top (for hangers of course) and you can clip your negs to teh bar and at the bottom to dry straight. It's only about $15-20 for your trouble and they dry in about 1-2 hours, maybe 3.

[dk_thompson]

the baskets are usually for tanklines that would range anywheres from 1 to 3.5 gallons. The large 3.5 gallon size would be like Art is desciribing, and the footprint for a tankline this size is around a 4-5 foot sink or more, it just depends on how many tanks you incorporate. But the processing itself is done in a darkoom in the dark, either by hand or using a nitrogen burst plenum for agitation and moving the basket(s) by hand. Unless you get something like a Linear processor, which is an automatic stainless processor that uses a big worm drive to move a custom basket through a series of tanks--they make them custom in sizes at half gallon or so up, but the prices start around $15K.....

 

fwiw, I run a smallish tankline where I work, using a custom 2 gallon stainless steel tank--5 total--that sit in a water jacketed tank, that sits in a deep 4 foot Regal sink....this is about a third the size of Art's setup, which actually is too small for our studio on a busy day, but just the right size otherwise. We run 28 sheets of 4x5 on 7 4-up racks, or about 8-12 rolls max. I usually do them in sets of 4-6 though, because we don't have a basket for the roll film (we don't shoot much besides 4x5) and I have to do them on liftrods by hand, I only have 2 hands unfortunately, so I like to keep the agitation simple...

 

Then you have to weigh in the chemistry costs. Tanklines are only effective if you process enough film daily to justify them. It's cheaper to do multiple runs in smaller tanks, than to maintain a big tankline for just one run of film. It may be more inconvenient, or take longer of your time, but that type of setup requires replenished chemistry to be cost effective--and you need to be using the chemistry frequently for it to be in good shape....a 3.5 gallon tankline will be about what? 14-15 gallons of chemistry total, if not more. I work next door to a lab that uses a tankline this size and they use 4 tanks, with the wash tank in the middle. This is a quick dump tank, and serves for both the water rinse between the dev & fix, and the final wash tank. There's another tank for hypo clear. The numbers on that are more like 98 sheets of 4x5 and almost 30 rolls of 35mm. FWIW, I mix up a total of about 10 gallons of chemistry a month for our line, and replenish TMAX RS as the dev. I do as many as 4-5 runs a day, and use a Leedal drying cabinet in between each run--it takes about 45-60 minutes per run, and about that long to dry sheet film, less than that for rolls. Each tank will have a floating lid and a tank cover to ward off oxidation. The best tanks have a lip on them for spillover. S.S. is the best for temp control, but hard rubber or plastic work well too. You probably don't have a cold water problem in NH, but we use a water chiller on our line as well as control panel & filtration...

 

BUT---all you really need is a dark room, a few tall graduates, and some liftrods for your reels. I've run film in makeshift darkrooms like this using Patterson graduates--they fit a hewes s.s. reel perfectly and in a 32 oz size you can run about 4 rolls at a time.....your waterjacket can be a dishpan.....

 

hope this helps. Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of my agency

[graphicjoe]

John,

Note that if you have a wreck while processing several rolls of film at the same time, it's a big wreck. So, be very sure that you have the process control down well before you run any film that you can't afford to loose or can't reshoot. There are disadvantages to doing only 1-3 rolls at a time (my range), but there is that one big advantage.

Keep warm,

Joe S.

[chris_eve]

My only reservation about using a rotary processor rather than intermittent agitation for conventional b&w film is the loss of acutance. As I understand it, perceived edge sharpness is decreased with a continuous agitation sequence. Having used a Jobo for many years for both conventional b&w and C41, I've reverted to development by inversion for my b&w and "think" I can notice the difference ... maybe it's imaginary, I haven't done "similar image" side-by-side tests. I still use the Jobo for fixing the film.

 

Admittedly, more developer is needed, except for a single 35mm film, but that's a small price to pay for improved negative quality.

 

I also have a degree of reservation about "bulk" processing once a month. I may not get around to printing for a while, but I do like to know that the negs have "come out" and the camera is working as expected ... it'd be a blow to have lost a month's pictures for want of an unrecognised hardware fault.

[new hampshire john]

Just a note to say thanks again for the help. It's vastly more useful to have your experiential views than to read promotional stuff.

 

Thanks, too, for the mass-processing concerns. I think I've reduced my risk based on many mistakes (no processing while drunk, angry, or tired, which coincides nicely with a once-a-month processing schedule) in the past, so I'll probably just risk it. It's obviously a hobby, so no worries if a batch or two goes by the wayside, anyway.

 

So it looks like a JOBO or similar rig. My one residual concern is the accutance factor -- I'll try to process some side by side and see if my non-discerning eye can tell the difference. In the end, sharpness might be sacrificed on the altar of convenience.

 

Thanks again.

 

John

[kameran_kashani]

Does anyone have any recommendations on agitating a deep tank rack with film reels? I recently picked up a used Arkay (holds 18 reels of 120) and am getting some 3-1/2 gal deep tanks, so I'm looking for some agitation time recommendations to use as a starting point in testing.

 

I've been told that all you have to do is raise the rack in the tank about 1/4 inch (.6cm) or so, and let it drop back to the bottom, and to do this as often as one would do inversions in a small tank.

 

Any other opinons and recommendations would be appreciated.

 

thx,

 

Kameran