Stand and compensating developers

[jack_welsh]

<p>Thinking about doing stand development and 2 bath developing,too<br>

Question, have heard people mention Rodinal, HC-110 and D-23 First 2 I have. Also hear things about Borax, washing soda and Kodalk. Now, of those 3, which works with what.Trying to find info on HC-110 with dilution."G" and it's developing times. Have done a little of 1:100 with Rodinal.Know that Kodalk is used with D-23 for some applications. but, what about Borax and washing soda? Is, the latter only used with coffee? Why would some one add Borax with HC-110 or Rodinal, or anything else.? Do mostly MF and some 4x5. Use roll film tanks and a 4x5 Yankee tank. No trays for sheet film.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

[jaydann_walker]

<p>Specifically what are you trying to do? What results are you expecting from your film processing?</p>

<p>You seem to be all over the place and not clearly defining what your processing goals and intentions are.</p>

<p>Over many years of observing darkroom workers playing with this and that developer, I have concluded that stand and two bath developers mostly appeal to the basically lazy who can't be bothered learning proper technique and want a "one size fits all" solution to all their processing.</p>

<p>Personally I have no time for stand development and I have seen only mediocre or outright bad results from all attempts to work with it. It gives you virtually no control over the end product but at least you will have time to watch a video movie or have a beer or two while your film basically stews in a chemical bath. </p>

<p>Two bath development has many followers (I happen to be one of them) but unless it it applied with great care, film contrast options can be fairly limited and adding or modifying chemicals in a haphazard way to either bath must be done with great care to avoid disasters. The process times are not always but can be critical. </p>

<p>Again, the effect you want is everything. As I don't know that, I feel very limited in what else I can tell you.</p>

<p>Some disciplined reading on your part will surely help you gain a basic understanding of what you want to do with your shooting and processing. I would recommend, as a start, the two excellent books on basics by Henry Horenstein, as well as one of the Steve Anchell darkroom guides. The answers to your many (and seemingly disjointed) questions will be found in those two books. There are many others you can then go on to read. Horenstein covers all the basics in B&W, he writes well and is easily understood. Anchell you may find somewhat more complex, but he outlines many different options with developer mixes and after reading him, you should be able to think through what it is you want to do and then return to us with some less general and more definite questions about your processing. we can then help you with some more exact answers.</p>

<p>In photography as well as in darkroom work, clear goals and exact knowledge are indispensable.</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>thanks,<br>

Have done B&W developing for at least 40 years. Not looking for everything. Just trying some thing new. Heard that Adams did semi-stand with HC-110 dilution G. just looking for a start. When a person uses Rodinal or D-23, for example, looking for which of the 3 Borax,Washing soda, or Kodalk would work with which ones, if any, and under what circumstances. From what I understand, doing Rodinal with stand development isn't lazy. Can take a lot of experimenting to see what works best for your conditions,etc.</p>

<p>thanks, again.</p>

[charles_h2]

<p>Hey Jack,<br>

I think one of the most important factors is how much shooting/processing you'll be doing. Both Rodinal and HC-110 have a long self life, so it's hard to go wrong with either one. I don't agree with the stand and two-bath developers being for lazy people. Ansel Adams and Barry Thornton weren't lazy photographers. Semi-stand development with HC-110 is one of the best processing techniques in the history of B/W film. It works best with times over 12 minutes. Under that, it's probably better to do normal agitation, with the developer of choice. </p>

<p>Two bath developers can be problematic because of re-usage and not keeping a log on when mixed and how many rolls/sheets you've processed, especially with solution B. It was created for roll film to get consistent results from various exposures, then expanded and modified to include all formats. </p>

<p>I have seen bad, good, and great results from almost every developer on the market. There are many good books out there to help get you started, but the final decision should be based on the look you want, and the time you put into learning the quality of each. Rodinal has a very special look (grainy, but sharp grain), HC-110 does everything well, as a normal developer, but great as a semi-stand developer (based on exposure and agitation techniques). At any rate, trial and comparison is the best way to be sure.....good luck </p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>thanks wondering since Adams developed Tri-x in HC 110 dilution G for 18 minutes, does it apply to only that film, A slower speed for less,etc. And, can Borax be good for any of the 3 developers I mentioned? Or Kodalk is for D-23.<br>

Experimenting is fine, maybe that's why we all use film. But, any time tested starting points is helpful. Heard that Borax can be used to reduce fog, for example.</p>

[charles_h2]

<p>Jack,<br /> The emulsion on Tri-x during Adams test was different than today's Tri-X, and so is the HC-110. Proprietary products like commercial developers, etc. can change their formula without notifying the public. This is why many serious photographers mix their own chemicals. Your exposure for shadow detail will determine the best development time. With that being said, 16-18 minutes is a good starting point. Also, there is a difference between the 320 and 400 asa version. Your results can even be different based on the batch # of the same type film.</p>

<p>The alkali (accelerator) go from mild to strong. Borax, Kodalk, Sodium carbonate. They activate the developer. The more the activity, the more contrast. Borax is used to achieve lower contrast and fine grain. Sodium metaborate (Kodalk), is the most used for modern films. Beautiful mid-tones.</p>

<p>Question: what film developer have you been using?</p>

[charles_h2]

<p>Here is an example of Tri-X and Rodinal. I like Rodinal for people and HC-110 for products and landscapes</p><div></div>

[glen_h]

<p>I started using Diafine when I was ten years old, just after I inherited much of my grandfather's darkroom equipment, and after he told me about it. Before that, I used D-76, and never tried anything fancier than the times that Kodak recommended.</p>

<p>In the case of sheet film, you have the possibility of developing each sheet as appropriate for that picture. With roll film, you don't have that choice, and so much less reason to vary development from recommended times.</p>

<p>The compensating effect is often enough useful. </p>

<p>Diafine keeps pretty much forever. I do always try to keep air out, but it isn't all that sensitive, anyway. There is very little reaction in bath A, other than that some soaks into the film. Some also gets lots filling and emptying the tank, and otherwise. Most development happens in bath B, but the concentration is high enough that it isn't very effected by use. </p>

<p>I suppose I am lazy, in not needing to keep close temperature or timing.</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>Every one thanks.<br>

For years D-76. More recently Rodinal and HC-110.<br />have been thinking of getting D-23 and Kodalk. Liking the old processes, guess I like to experiment. more.</p>

[scotty_elmslie]

<p>I tried Rodinal and HC110 for stand development of CMS 20 and had problems with Rodinal - bromide drag, where the un-exhausted developer flowed down the surface of the film. I had better luck with HC110 because it seems to be more viscous.</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>My HC-110 dilution g for 16 minutes with T=Max 100 came out very well.</p>

[cj8281]

<p><a href="http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/">http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/</a><br>

might give you a bit of insight to HC110.</p>