Suggestions for entry-level 6x6 SLR

[s_l26]

<p>I'm finally ready to jump into the world of medium format and I need some suggestions for a good beginner's system. I prefer 6x6, and I am looking to spend $200-300. I really like the Bronica SQ series but it seems to be a bit outside my price range. The Mamiya M645 looks like a solid choice for the price but I really would rather have 6x6. Are there any other SLRs out there that priced similar to the M645 but in 6x6? Bonus points for having lots of ready available parts available second hand. </p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>Recommendation: No money = No SLR; buy Mamiya <strong>T</strong>LRs instead. - Focusing & composing through an orange or even red filter sucks big time. You don't want to use a tripod built before WW2 to be carried by 4 soldiers to either hold a machine gun or cope with your mirror flap induced camera shake either.<br>

And here is the poisonous list: Chinese Great Wall. <-horror. - Lenses Leica threaded, IDK if there are interchangeable ones. / Soviet Kiev - Maybe go for the Hasselblad lookalike versions but lenses not great & clunky. Pentacon Six: Known to have issues with film counterpresseur and prone to develop issues with film spacing. Kiev clone of it: worse and no Zeiss lenses (worse too). - Reunified German Edixa same mount, maybe finally OK but nastily priced. - Schneider lenses, the same.<br>

Again: If you are lucky you get what you pay for, via somewhat regular retail. MF film and out of house processing are far from dirt cheap, so I 'd recommend to get a somewhat reliable serious solution to burn it. From my practical POV (especially considering how labs charge for their service): The 6x6 format is meant to substitute a rotating 645back by film wasting. If you are going to print your homeprocessed B&W you'd be happier with a 6x6 TLR system, if you 'll end staring at lap printed proofs, you'll stay poor for the rest of your life paying the same as for 5x7" premium size to get your 5x5"s done.</p>

[BrianS1664879711]

Reality check: unless you are very very lucky that

budget won't allow you to make the leap.

[rajmohan.]

<p>I agree - a good/reliable 6x6 SLR system is tough with your budget (even the SQ system, once you have body + back + lenses, is likely to be more - at least the last time I looked).<br>

But as Jochen suggests, a TLR might be a good way to start. You can get a Yashica TLR for around $100 if you look around, which saves you a bit of cash for film and processing. The image quality is very good, especially from the models with the Yashinon lenses. They are light, compact, purely mechanical without too many complex parts, and are a very good intro to medium format. I started with one before moving on to others (but it instilled in me a love for shooting TLRs, and they remain my favorite cameras for shooting MF).</p>

[robert_bowring]

<p>You don't state where you are but I saw this on Milwaukee Craigslist and thought you might be interested. I don't know anything about this camera and like anything on Craigslist you should be careful. It just looked like a good deal to me. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pho/5531141341.html</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>How about a TLR like the Yashicamat 635, or 124? They might be within your budget.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Give some serious thought to 645 SLR systems--Mamiya, Pentax, Bronica. A basic 75-80mm lens+body+prism finder+120 back kit might be possible with some searching, patience and a willingness to spend a bit more. Too many age-related problems with relic TLRs. The only film-related service vanishing faster than pro labs is competent repair, so don't think the cure-all "CLA" will be easy to find or especially cheap when you do.<br>

Buy the newest MF gear you can afford(not an ancient M645). Fixer-uppers are usually a false economy and nothing kills the mood and the fun faster than a semi-functional camera.</p>

[ondebanks]

<blockquote>

<p>Are there any other SLRs out there that priced similar to the M645 but in 6x6?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Pentacon Six TL. Check Trevor Allin's marvellous site: <a href="http://www.pentaconsix.com/">www.pentaconsix.com</a></p>

<blockquote>

<p>Bonus points for having lots of ready available parts available second hand.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Everything for the Pentacon Six is second hand! Especially plentiful in Europe.</p>

<p>Now, I have to dispute or expand on some of Jochen's statements:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Soviet Kiev - Maybe go for the Hasselblad lookalike versions but lenses not great & clunky.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The original Kiev 88 limits you to Kiev screw-thread lenses. The later/modified Kiev 88cm (and similar under different names such as Arax and Hartblei) have a different lens mount, which takes all Pentacon-Six mount lenses: Schneider, Carl Zeiss Jena, Meyer/Orestegor/Prakticar, and Kiev itself. So I very much disagree with "lenses not great" - the first two of these marques (Schneider and CZ Jena) are uniformly very good, and the others have certain very good lenses in their lineup.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Pentacon Six: Known to have issues with film counterpresseur and prone to develop issues with film spacing.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I had one of these and liked it. It is extremely light for a 6x6 SLR. The pressure plate issue (a slight bowing forward of the centre of the film) can only be seen in some photos shot wide open. If you get a body with good film spacing and wind it correctly, it will stay good.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Kiev clone of it: worse and no Zeiss lenses (worse too).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Kiev never made a clone of the Pentacon Six. They made their own 35mm-shaped SLR with the same Pentacon Six lens mount, but it looks, feels, and weighs nothing like the diminutive Pentacon. This was the Kiev 6c. Around the time of the fall of communism, it was changed slightly and the new model was called the Kiev 60. This too has seen some more recent tweaks and rebadging under names like Arax. I had an Arax 60 MLU; big and clunky but it took great photos. I chose it over the Kiev/Arax 88cm Hasselblad lookalikes as it was cheaper and had a better reputation for reliability.</p>

<p>Also, "no Zeiss lenses" is incorrect for these bodies. Since they have the Pentacon Six mount, they take all the lenses I listed above, including Zeiss Jena.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>- Reunified German Edixa same mount, maybe finally OK but nastily priced. - Schneider lenses, the same.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's Exakta, not Edixa. The Exakta 66 to be exact(a!). This is basically a Pentacon Six TL body covered in rubber armour, with new viewfinders, some meter-coupling electronics, and better film flatness. It arrived in the 1980s, actually prior to German unification, with a new range of Schneider lenses - the same ones I said you can also use with the Kiev and Arax bodies (and by the same token, the Exakta can also use the CZ Jena and Kiev lenses, not just the Schneiders). The body was tweaked slightly over 3 variants, Mark I - II - III.<br>

<br />All these cameras are lower-tech than even the first generation (all metal) Mamiya 645s; I describe them because you want to have a 6x6 SLR at low cost (although the Exakta will be too expensive).</p>

<p>But if 6x4.5 cm format is not a deal breaker, then the Mamiya 645 is a better built, better featured and easier to use camera - much better options in coupled light metering, grips and drives, for example - with a huge stable of very affordable high quality lenses (in the same performance range as the CZ Jena and Schneider lenses). Plus, with a simple adapter, it can also use the Pentacon Six mount lenses - some of which fill gaps in the Mamiya 645 lineup.</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>Sorry to have mixed up Edixa / Exakta. - I can't report (serious) film spacing issues in <em>my</em> Pentacon either. - OTOH I have seen a East German backyard business offering Pentacon conversions to red window winding as the final cure for spacing issues; so maybe there<em> is</em> a reason to fear them and I just haven't shot enough. </p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>You might consider an earlier Bronica 6x6 system: the S2a. Not the S2 because it has a weak gear train that was improved with the S2a. Good selection of lenses between the Bornica's Zensa system and Nikkors. The biggest drawback to the S2a system is it uses a focal plane shutter, so your flash sync is restricted to slower speeds. I don't recall offhand if a lens with shutter was ever offered for the early Bronica system.</p>

<p>Bronica also made the EC and ECTL models that are compatible with the S2a system -- in terms of lens mount at least. They're both battery dependent. The ECTL has a built in meter. Years ago, I owned an ECTL and I loved it. Still miss it.</p>

<p>If I were you, though, and really wanted to stay with a modular 6x6 system, I'd look for a good SQ starter setup -- body, lens, back, finder -- and then add to it as I could afford it. That's one of the nice things about a modular system, after all. And I'd go for the SQAi body, too. The Ai has mirror lockup and TTL flash with the appropriate flash module and flash unit.</p>