Starting a C-41 Processing Business ?

[paul_c8]

<p>So I have always shot film and developed my own B&W, I have seen a resurgence of people shooting colour neg over the last couple of years myself included.<br>

A Noritsu QSF-v30SM has just come up for sale and Im thinking of buying it as there is room in my photography studio, I would like to know a few things as I'm starting off completely blind with this.</p>

<ol>

<li>What is that machine like ?</li>

<li>Can i develop 120/220 as well as 35mm ?</li>

<li>How many rolls of film would i have to put through it a day/week ?</li>

<li>What chemicals are best ?</li>

<li>How much are the chemicals ?</li>

<li>What volume of chemicals would a machine like this use ? </li>

</ol>

<p>Any help would be amazing. </p>

<p>Cheers </p>

[glen_h]

<p>I don't know those answers, but it seems to me that you also need to know the supply of C41 processors in your area.</p>

<p>There are now two professional level C41 labs in Seattle, and as far as I can tell, they plan to stay in business. The third lab closed about five years ago, so it looks like Seattle doesn't have the demand for three of them. They charge about $7.50 develop only for 35mm or 120, more for 220. </p>

<p>As far as I know, the service offered by Walmart and Walgreens is mostly used by people with disposable cameras, where not returning negatives is fine. I suspect you don't consider them.</p>

<p>There is advantage in having your own lab, but it sounds like you want to offer the service to others, to keep it affordable.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>What resurgence? There's a reason you're as likely to find a mastodon in your garden as a nearby film processor. I found one in the Chicago area, about 25 miles away, risen from the ashes of the Calumet Photo bankruptcy. They do 35 mm on site, but send 120 to a company in Wisconsin.</p>

<p>For starters, a business is a business. Technology is just a small part of it. It's really about money, which means convincing a bank you know what you're doing and there is a viable market for your services. In other words, you have a business plan. Even if you persuade the bank, you have layers of bureaucracy to penetrate, not the least of which is the EPA.</p>

<p>If you want a quality experience on an amateur basis, stick with Tetanal, but mix your own bleach, use a separate fixing step (Kodak Rapid Fix), and forget about BLIX forever.</p>

[wblynch]

<p>The V-30 should process 135, 240 (APS) and 120 film. Possibly also 126 and 110 instamatic film and even 127.</p>

<p>I believe it requires a 240v source but I don't know if that would be single-phase or 3-phase.</p>

<p>I've been wanting to get on but don't have the space right now.</p>

<p>A V-15 is smaller, processes only 135/240 and I believe takes a 120v source.</p>

 

[rossb]

<p>Color film is a shrinking market and the resurgence is not likely. Some things to consider is who will service the machine and the cost of that. Can the machine even be repaired. Also environmental standards for disposing of large quantities of chemicals. There are local hazardous waste disposal laws that would require compliance. </p>

<p>I guess what I am thinking is the machine is an albatross and ownership would be unpleasant. </p>

 

[wblynch]

Someone has to do it.

 

 

My brother restores antique motorcycles. Anything from 1900-1939. He specializes in Indians and Hendersons but also Thor, Excelsior,

Ace, and more.

 

 

So the thing is one would call that a "diminishing market". But there is a market. There are people with thriving businesses making parts

and equipment for these machines. And I am not talking about generic, functional replacement parts. These are highly detailed pieces

that are often indistinguishable from the originals.

 

 

A diminishing market but a market.

 

 

We need these services and supplies. It might not be "easy money" like the old days when any goofbal with no interest, care or

knowledge of photography could order up a mini lab and watch the dough roll in. As soon as the market diminished they ran off, closed

the doors and reopened as a smoke and vape shop. Or whatever is the easy money trend of the day.

 

 

There is a market and people can decide how much business they need to make it run. One person might say it's not worth

bothering for less that $20,000 a month. Another might be happy to make $1,000 a month of extra walking around money running a

couple hundred rolls in a month.

 

 

Why not give it a try?

[Bill C]

[bill Lynch] "It might not be "easy money" like the old days when any goofbal with no interest, care or knowledge of

photography could order up a mini lab and watch the dough roll in."

 

Hi Bill, actually it never WAS like that, at least for most people in the U.S. The outfit where I spent a number of years tried

to run a profitable mini-lab business, eventually reaching 600 locations before selling off that division. The problem was

the proliferation of mini-labs in large stores that didn't need much profit - it was enough to bring customers into their store

for an hour. It's hard to compete against someone who doesn't need direct profits.

 

I have no idea if it could be profitable today.

 

For Paul C, I don't know that machine (I think Bill Lynch may, though), but here was a fairly recent thread:

http://www.photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00b5Hw

 

Now, the machine you are looking at has ...sm in the name. I take that to mean that this machine requires the "SM"

chemicals - these come in individual containers that "plug in" to the machine; "mixing" is done inside of the machine. You

can get info on the SM system from Kodak's Z-101 manuals, available online. There is some specific info on low volume

operation in Kodak's CIS190, where your machine is specifically referenced.

 

I'm not sure what your effluent issues would be. I know you're in Australia, but in the U.S.the normal procedure is that you

obtain a "sewering permit" from your local POTW (publicly-owned treatment works). There would be municipal regulations

that set specific limits for a number of chemicals, as well as the methods to make sure you're conforming (and no, you

don't have anything to do with the EPA). The main problem typically is meeting the silver limits, and this might be

insurmountable in some locations. For Australia I have NO idea how things work, but there's a good likelihood that it's

similar.

 

One last note is that this might be a "washless" machine that doesn't even need a sewer connection; in this case, in the

U.S. you would need a licensed waste hauler to pick up and dispose of the waste, typically at exorbitant cost. So be sure

to look into this.

 

I would personally want to check into the availability of replacement parts. If, for example, you have some sort of "rubber"

coated roller of precise dimension that gets damaged, and it's NA, what do you do? Something like this is very difficult to

manufacture on your own. (Having a second machine, as a parts donor, might be an option.

 

Best of luck on your project.

[paul_c8]

<p>Hi Guys thansk so much for the response, I make my living from commercial/Advertising photography so even if the machine only made me a couple hundred bucks a month extra id be happy with that, I should of made that more clear. I know prob enough people in my city that I could prob break even (hopefully) with this machine and thats without marketing it. <br>

The resurgence I talk about is maybe not a resurgence but younger people taking up what older people are maybe leaving behind, I understand big places are shutting down and its happened here in Australia but you can always find the old independent photograph store processing c-41 and a few other new companies hoping up along the way. <br>

I just basically needed to know how much chemicals the machine takes, how long it lasts and whats the minimum rolls I would have to put through the machine to keep the chemicals at there best. <br>

I have space for the machine and it comes with drying racks clips and everything you would need to use it and the person seeing it was keeping the waste and it wasn't plumbed in and it would get collected every other week by professionals. </p>

[Bill C]

[Paul] "I just basically needed to know how much chemicals the machine takes, how long it lasts and whats the minimum

rolls I would have to put through the machine to keep the chemicals at there best. "

 

Hi, you probably haven't had time to read the pubs that I referenced, but most of the info is in there. (For machine tank

sizes, you'll probably need the Noritsu manuals.)

 

I think they said about 20 rolls/day (135-24 size) minimum, otherwise revert to the special "low utilization" settings per

CIS109, which MIGHT require a Noritsu service call.

 

To estimate the chemical usage, see Z101_2, table 2.2 (from my memory); there is a "replenishment rate" for each of the

components. To estimate the cost per roll, you'd need to find pricing info on the chemicals, then divide the chemical

package size by the replenishment rate to get the (approximate) number of rolls per package. (Do this for each of the

chemical components.)

 

One last note: it might not be clear what the "process control" parts of the Z manuals are about. Basically, the

replenishment rates are a starting point. Different film types and exposure levels may need different replenishment rates.

The way you determine this is to periodically process a "control strip." These are pre-exposed by the manufacturer, and

come with one "ideally processed" reference strip. You use a densitometer to compare your own processed strip to the

reference strip. If yours, for example, is "hotter" (higher densities) than the reference, then you would want to slightly

reduce your developer replenishment rates. Or you may have some other chemical problem that can be detected by the

control strips. Anyway, this sort of monitoring is one of the tradeoffs that comes along with the low chemical costs you

can get by using replenishment. Note that if you do things right, the lifespan of the process-tank chemicals is indefinite.