Which full frame? What would you do?

[cam_shaw]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Been racking my brain for a while now about which full-frame camera to go for next year.<br>

Bit of background: I'm currently shooting with a 700D and although it's a great little camera and I love it, I'm getting the feeling that I need to go to full frame. The reason for this is multifold. Firstly noise performance. I do shoot some indoor events and I'm up at around ISO800 - 3200, sometimes 6400 and the 700D is strugging there. I also shoot portraiture, classic vehicles, a little motorsport, the odd wedding, etc. I'm also finding the focussing is ok but not great on the 700D, so I'd like to improve that (I generally use the centre point). I also love the 'look' of the full frame images as I also shoot film (35mm and 120) and love the 'look'.</p>

<p>When I first bought the 700D I had the 18-135mm IS USM kit lens which was fine for a while, and I added the EF-S 10-18 which is a great lens. Then I started thinking about full frame and I decided that I would not buy any more EF-S lenses which only fit the crop sensor cameras but go for the EF lenses. <br>

Since then I have aquired the Canon 50mm f/1.4,<br>

Canon 40mm f/2.8<br>

Canon 85mm f/1.8<br>

Canon 24-70mm f/4 IS (my go to lens)<br>

Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS<br>

Tamron 150-600mm</p>

<p>So, around April/May next year I will be looking for a full frame body. I was thinking of getting the 6D which should meet my needs, but what's bugging me is that it's 2012 technology and by the time of purchase it will already be 5 years old... perhaps I would be better waiting for the replacement model? I know it's only rumours but if the past is anything to go by the 6D was released around 6 months after the 5D MK3, so perhaps the 6D replacement will be announced around Feb/March 2017? Sounds like a plan BUT the other thing that's bugging me is do I NEED a better camera than the 6D? Is the image quality likely to be THAT much better than the 6D? also will the focussing be that much better?</p>

<p>It's driving me nuts! and I know I won't be purchasing the full frame body until next year, but I like to have a plan!</p>

<p>Opinions would be very welcome. Thanks.</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<blockquote>

<p>I know I won't be purchasing the full frame body until next year, but I like to have a plan!</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />The best plan, then, would be to wait and see which bodies are announced in the New Year, and decide then.</p>

<p>I've resisted "upgrading" my 5DII and 7D because their successors don't offer me much more for the kind of photography I do. You won't know whether the 6D's successor will be better for you till it arrives. One thing we do know, however, is when the 6DII (or whatever it'll be called) is announced, the price of the 6D will drop.</p>

[mark_schafer1]

<p>As you're looking to buy in the Spring of 2017 you have Photokina coming up in September '16 with lots of new equipment that should be available at that time. And if you don't feel the need for any of the newly available cameras you will be able to source great (current summer '16) gear in the used market. And as for which one, make a list what each can do for you, what you can live without and decide. I personally always keep a current model 5D around (currently 5Ds).</p>

[cam_shaw]

<p>Thanks for the replies guys! Good advice. <br>

I guess the prices might be (guessing) £1,000 for the 6D and £2,000 for the MK2 and probably a little less for the 6D in spring 2017. I know the mk2 will be over twice the price of the mk1 but if it gets me where I need to be then I'm ok with that, but of course I don't want to spend out on the 'latest & greatest' if I don't need it.</p>

<p>Making a list is a great idea and and present (off the top of my head) what I need is:<br>

1. Full frame sensor<br>

2. Fast & accurate focussing (especially in low light)<br>

3. Good high ISO performance 6400 - 12,800</p>

<p>What I'd also like (but not essential):<br>

1. Reasonable dynamic range<br>

2. flip & twist screen<br>

3. 2 x memory card slots</p>

<p>What I don't need is:<br>

1. a gazillion focussing points<br>

2. high burst rate<br>

3. GPS<br>

4. WiFi<br>

5. touch screen</p>

<p> </p>

[G-P]

<p>Saw this a while ago - worth the look - maybe it will help you make a decision! Crop Sensors vs Full Frame: Crop Or Crap? <a title="http://bit.ly/2asofjF" dir="ltr" href="https://t.co/haJqFQyT2N" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" data-expanded-url="http://bit.ly/2asofjF">http://bit.ly/2asofjF </a> by <a dir="ltr" href="https://twitter.com/zarias" data-mentioned-user-id="11057242">@zarias</a></p>

[cam_shaw]

<p>Hi Glenn! Yes, I have seen that and love Zack Arias. I think he's brilliant. Kind of puts it all into perspective. Having said that, I think he also shoots with a medium format Phase One? So, perhaps they aren't all the same. ;-) lol.</p>

<p>Incidentally, I was not disrespecting crop sensors at all, I love mine and the reach and extra depth of field it gives, BUT there are certain instances where full frame (or 35mm) gives better results. Horses for courses really and being as I also shoot with 35mm film (and 120) I am used to the focal lengths from those and full frame would make things a bit easier for me. I will still keep and use my crop sensor and use it when conditions are appropriate.<br>

One example recently was when I was shooting at a disused railway yard in the evening as the light was going down. I was using a Pentax K1000 with the 50mm f/1.7 and 35mm film. I also wanted some digital photos, so I slapped my 50mm f/1.4 on my 700D and was frustrated by the fact that I could not get the same shots as I would have to stand much further away and there were things in the way! Yes, I could have used a 35mm lens but I don't have one and it would have to be a fast one as I was shooting around f/1.8 <br>

Also, on the flip side I was shooting at a model show (small model railway/houses - not supermodels!) which was indoors and and even my crop sensor did not give me enough depth of field for the shots. Yes, I could have used a longer exposure and stopped down to f/22 but using a tripod would have been cumbersome and inappropriate. OR I could have used focus stacking, but it made me think as my step-daughter was getting much better DOF with her point and shoot with it's much smaller sensor albeit with much poorer image quality. Each has it's pros and cons I guess.<br>

</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>As suggested, wait and see.<br>

I waited until the 5Diii came out, saw what advantages it had for my own shooting style, and so bought a spanking new 5D<strong>ii</strong> which met all of <em><strong>my</strong></em> needs at a nicer price. There's usually an overlap in which dealers and Canon themselves try to clear the shelves of the older product.<br>

It's fun to plan ahead, but unless you have a really good Magic-8 Ball, you can sometimes be sorry you didn't wait to be sure.</p>

 

[Robin Smith]

5d4 announcement due this month, and 6d probably due in 2017. So I'd wait and see.

[cam_shaw]

<p>Good advice guys. I'll wait and see. Just wondered if anyone was in the same boat and what their thoughts were. Thanks again.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Buying ToDAY, I'd go for the 5DsR. It's IQ is stunning and the noise performance is better than any full-frame that you mentioned. I own the 5DsR and love the resolution. For instance, I stood on the dock in Amalfi, Italy and took a shot of the town. The resolution is so good that I can blow the shot up 300% and look at people in the windows.</p>

<p>If cost is a concern, then waiting for the 6D MkII makes sense. It's due for replacement. I think that you can count on it gaining even better high-ISO performance, a couple of more fps and, hopefully, a little better AF performance. If the 6D2 isn't out by the time you're ready, then a used 5D MkIII would be a good investment to hold you over until the new generation. The improvement over your current body will be stunning, in every respect.</p>

[cam_shaw]

<p>Hi David,<br>

Interesting slant. I was talking to a guy at a race meeting in January who had a 5DsR and he was raving about it. For me the pros would be exactly as you describe, but the cons (in order) would be: Not as good high ISO performance as the 6D in low light (even Canon admit that), HUGE file sizes and cost. It is a fantastic piece of kit though and if I was doing high detail studio work I would get one without blinking. I am also liking it's autofocussing system.</p>

<p>With regard to the 5DMK3, it's a big old beast but again 5 year old technology (when I am ready to buy) with an excellent autofocussing system but the IQ almost the same as the 6D for a fair bit more money. I'm not sure about buying a used body. Primes ok, but zoom lenses and bodies I'm a bit nervous about unless they are from a dealer and come with some sort of warranty.</p>

<p>Yes, the improvement over my current body will be very dramatic and I'm very much looking forward to it and the day when I can watch some videos comparing the 5DMKIV and 6D MKII and make an informed choice.</p>

<p>Talking of used bodies, I initially considered a 5Dmk2 and mk1 but after looking at the specs and watching some comparison videos the results were pretty poor so I gave up on that idea as I'd want this new body to last me 5 years or so. Maybe more.</p>

[Ken Katz]

Both the 1DX II and 80D seem to have picked up and addition 1.5+ stops of DR over their predecessors, so I

would anticipate at least that much improvement in the next updates to the Canon line. If this performance

improvement is important to you it may make sense to pay up for it by buying the newly introduced equipment.

If not, you can certainly save a significant amount of money buying older models (or used equipment). Lenses

are much longer term purchases but digital camera bodies become technologically obsolete more rapidly. FYI

obsolete cameras can still take really good photos.

[dcstep]

<p>Cam said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'm not sure about buying a used body. Primes ok, but zoom lenses and bodies I'm a bit nervous about unless they are from a dealer and come with some sort of warranty.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

The L-series zooms are built like tanks. My 24-105mm and 70-200/f4 IS are 8-years old and going strong. A good dealer or seller is very important with any used gear.<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Interesting slant. I was talking to a guy at a race meeting in January who had a 5DsR and he was raving about it. For me the pros would be exactly as you describe, but the cons (in order) would be: Not as good high ISO performance as the 6D in low light (even Canon admit that), HUGE file sizes and cost. It is a fantastic piece of kit though and if I was doing high detail studio work I would get one without blinking. I am also liking it's autofocussing system.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

DxO Mark shows the 6D and 5DsR to have essentially the same low-light/high-ISO performance. See<br>

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5DS-R-versus-Canon-EOS-6D___1009_836 <br>

<br>

Huge file sizes are not a "big" problem these days, with TB of storage available for 50-bucks. You do, need a fast processor, but that's true with the 35MB files that all the latest full-frame cameras produce. Once you handle 35MB, 80MB isn't generally a problem. Cost is cost, throwing candidates like the 6D to the fore.<br>

<br>

Also, the big bottom line about these super-high resolution bodies is will you ever print larger than 48" on the long side. (The 5D2 and later all handle that). I really do hope to do a 72" print from my 5DsR. MOST will never consider that, so all that resolution is wasted, unless you use it to crop and increase equivalent reach. However, if cropping is your usage, then buy a 7D MkII, with the same pixel-pitch and only slightly worse high-ISO performance.</p>

[cam_shaw]

<p>Thanks for all the replies. Some very interesting points made there. However...</p>

<p>With the release of the 5DMKIV, perhaps that could be a contender (excellent in all respects except price). £3600 in the UK at present and that is a HUGE amount of money, BUT potentially possible IF I skip an iteration and upgrade every 8 years or so? At least I know what is physically out there now with the new series of sensors in the full frame sector. If the 6DMKII has the same IQ but the same autofocus as the 5DMK3 then it might be a contender but it's only conjecture as we don't know what the spec will be or even if it will be released at all.<br>

<br />I still won't be buying until next year, but one thing I'll have to concern myself about is the whiplash effect from the upgrade! ;-) </p>

[dcstep]

<p>I doubt that the 6D will get the pro AF system of the 5D4.</p>

<p>Also, the new 24-105/f4 II and the 16-35/f2.8 III are just as big a news to me as the new body. I've already got a fantastic super-wide, but my 24-105 is 8-years old. I could really use 4-stops of IS and even better IQ. Bodies are important, but lenses are where the image starts.</p>

<p>I think that the big improvements from the 5D MkIII to the MkIV are mainly for video, where it leads the class with dual-pixel AF. I'm curious to see the impact on our still pictures of dual pixel Raw. The coming review should help us get to the bottom of that. The AF system, fps and dynamic range improvements are all incremental. If money is an issue, a used 5D3 could be an exceptional investment. (Just sold mine). </p>