Difference between Voigtländer Bergheil and AVUS 9x12 cameras!

[emil_ems5]

<p>Hi,<br>

I am currently writing a book based on glass negatives taken between 1912 and 1918 with a 9x12 camera in Sweden. Unfortunately, I do not have any information about the camera having been used. However, the pictures are of good quality, with vertical lines kept parallel and pictures sharp overall. Since this is Europe, I gather that the Gentleman in question owned a Voigtländer folding camera. I would like to present one of those in the book but don't know whether a Bergheil or an AVUS wold be the most representative. Could someone knowledgeable about these cameras please tell me the difference between them, assuming that the camera was bought around 1912? The gentleman came from a middle class family that was reasonably well off.</p>

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>Do you have a reason to assume it's a Voigtländer? Why not an ICA, Goerz or Ernemann, or any of several other makers? See the <a href="http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Category:German_9x12_folding">category of German 9x12 folders</a> at Camera-wiki. This doesn't include <a href="http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Category:9x12_strut_folding">9x12 strut-folders</a>, which might have been a convenient choice for touring.<br>

There are articles on both the Avus and Bergheil, though there isn't a picture of a Bergheil as old as 1912. They do look similar: both seem to be double-extension,and I think in 9x12 both would have geared front rise and shift. I see the Bergheil article makes mention of convertible lenses on early Bergheils (double-anastigmats, where you can unscrew half the lens to get twice the focal length), and detachable lens and shutter in later ones. There was a horizontally-oriented model of the Avus. There's also the Alpin; triple extension, and horizontally oriented.</p>

 

[Jochen_S]

<p>I'm no real expert, but this would be like showing a Nikon F in WW2. I dug out the following museum link and hope they are right and Google translate will be with you. http://www.museum-digital.de/nat/index.php?t=serie&serges=349<br>

Avus production started in 1914 Bergheil in 1912. Since the latest and greatest took a moment to spread back when folks still lived offline, I'd look for images of a Voigtländer Alpin made since 1905 or 1907 according to http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Alpin<br>

Good luck!</p>

[colin carron]

<p>sorry incorrect post!</p>

[john tonai]

<p>My 9x12 Bergheil has a lock on the elevation knob. It also has a bayonet attachment for the shutter assembly. There are two focus scales presumably for the normal focal length and a longer one. My Avus doesn't have any of these</p>

[colin carron]

<p>Along with Peter I also would ask you why Voigtlander? Do you have information that this was the make of camera used?<br /> As Jochan says the Avus was definitely made after 1912 and the Bergheil would be just starting production.<br /> However if you wanted to use either the Bergheil or Avus as representative of the sort of camera that was used then perhaps you should look at their original price as that possibly gives some indication of who might have bought them. Both cameras had very similar capabilities with detail differences such as John describes. The main difference between them was that the Bergheil was a luxury camera while the Avus was competent but perhaps not luxurious. The main differences were to be found in the lenses fitted : the Avus had the 4 element Skopar lens while the Bergheil was normally fitted with the 5 element Heliar lens. The overall finish was better quailty on the Bergheil. Perhaps one might say the Avus was the Volvo while the Bergheil was the Mercedes S class. The Volvo will do everything you normally want of a car but the S class gives an impression of status. in the US in 1924 the Avus cost $39 while the Bergheil cost $82. With your knowledge of your subject which do you think your subject would have used?</p>

[emil_ems5]

<p>Thank you all for your useful responses. The Gentleman in question was quite well off. So I think I will stick with the Bergheil, especially since he started taking pictures only in 1916, according to his son who still lives! I will mention, however, that he could have used similar models or makes, but that they all looked more or less like the Bergheil.</p>

[william_littman1]

<p>The Bergheil was the top of the line Folder PRE LINHOF with interchangeable lenses bayonet mount rise fall swing. I have several of both in 4x5 and 3x4 Im hoping to get rid of I have been buying them for the lenses and could use the space. I would list them on the auction site but wary to0 spend too much time anaylyzing the condition of something over 100 years old ;) and could use the space.</p>

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>Since the photographer was Swedish, why not a <a href="http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Svea">Svea</a>?</p>