Why not a small Lumix with a 20mm as casual walk around rig?

[GerrySiegel]

I have lately become attached to my micro four thirds EM- Oly camera with the all weather all round everything and the

grips and bells and whistles. But to let you know, for all around simplicity, the almost old/gettin- on- a- bit Lumix GX 7 micro 4/3 mini model with a 20mm 1.7 Version I small and sharp

lens is a hard combination to beat for those improvisational grab and go days.

 

If you have no time at all to fuss around, store type lousy o'head lighting, an impatient shopgirl subject...I

say it is fine, no, more than fine..., to leave the camera on Program and even forget on board decent flash. The

small mirrorless like this GX7 and its siblings ( I know there are comparable machines and I do not make

invidious comparisons ) are not intimidating and easy to use and deliver results good enough for the likes of me.

Click off a couple of shots and let auto everything do its number.

 

 

Every time I grab this camera over my other higher end model it surprises me with a) decent exposure and b)

decent auto white balance and c) fair enough auto focus. And,- big and,- it pops into a small ThinkTank

feather weight bag with a bagel or two :-). The LCD screen is big enough to compose as is the raise up to vertical sharp eyeball finder. my

preference usually, compact but not so tight in squeezing the controls either unless you have HULK fingers.... I can squeeze in on top even a more powerful

flash like the compact Olympus FL36 or FL 20 in auto mode.

 

Bottom conclusion= Panasonic is getting to be my current fave company for mirrorless models well thought out and

easy to use. Olympus now dont get me wrong is fine as well and I could have posted there but felt for the heck

of it to lay this out here...for those wooed by Sony and Fuji, also nice goods got to add no slight on

them....... Just saying that for microminiaturization the engineers at Matsushita are doing just great with the

m4/3 format and I expect it will get even better...

The lenses are equal to the best at comparable prices, my current feeling. Even my miserly old version 20mm does

the trick as in this grab shot. Yes it focused fast enough for my taste....

 

Here is the rub. Does Panasonic also make rice cookers, microwaves and TVs? How interesting.. Aloha, gs<div></div>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>I've been looking at the Panasonic GM5, much tinier and <a href="http://camerasize.com/compare/#570,472"><strong>weighing just over half as much as the GX7</strong></a>, It does seem like a good match with the 20mm f/1.7. Haven't bought it yet though. (Disclosure: I worked for Panasonic for many years in R&D, not on photography or sensors.)</p>

[starvy]

<p>They are much better now than my G1 where the noise was actually rather horrid. It died after six months in use. That was £60 wasted. When I can afford to I will probably get another G series body, maybe the G3.</p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Have Gx7, like it a lot. Would like to see upgraded version pretty much the same with better high ISO, better image stabilization, and weather sealing, plus a control to keep the flash bent up for bouncing with out having to hold the thing with your ringer while you use the shutter. Maybe even a little higher resolution as that is part of the general upgrade cycles. Love the size. Great with a Leica Summicron lenses and adopter, nice solid feel, also with the Pany lenses as well.</p>

[machts gut]

Up to ISO1600 the G3 does a pretty decent job. For the price for used cams you have to pay, I guess you hardly find a better deal. My only complains are about battery life and DR. Both could be better.

I'm in the market for a used GX-7. Held one in my hands and liked it :-) I have the 20mm Mark I and although focusing is slow it's definitely a keeper.

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>I have that v. 1 of the 20, and it's wonderful. I use it on an EM-5, and sometimes on my EPL-1, both very portable.</p>

<p>It is a little noisy, and in good light, honestly, I prefer a kit zoom. I only really use the 20 for low light stuff.</p>

<p>I think the 40mm equiv. f.o.v. is just about perfect for a "standard" lens, though.</p>

[Sanford]

<p>I sometimes use just the Panasonic 14mm with one of my smaller M4/3 cameras (GX1, GF1, EP2). After the initial panic of being limited to just a wide angle lens I adjust and it becomes liberating. I even used the square format several times to eliminate ALL decision making.</p><div></div>

[GerrySiegel]

Peter I totally agree that equivalent of 40mm is just about right for my taste and the 20mm does the trick. Tiny. I add a rubber screw on hood and it is still tiny...... Well I bought the GX7 because of the significant drop in retail price and because of good reviews, that plus inclusion of Panasonic's adoption of IBIS. Never held it and wasn't expecting to be won over to it at first, I was after some use though. And it delivers on all measures that I can find including the built in flash in close quarters and my ISO stays at 400, good enough for most stuff without flash if one is steady...

 

I now use GX7 it as part of a two lens kit in a small bag along with the Olympus very very infinitesimally tiny 45mm 1.8. The GX7 plus the two fit neatly in ThinTank Mirrorless Mover 20 bag with a two cell flash that tilts and has adjustments and own 2AAbatteries (thinking of saving battery power always). I have two Wasabi lithium ion batteries along with the Lumix one. Work great at great price. The Wasabi and its charger are really small too....

 

So I am preaching one approach that works for me: One bag for 1) the light incidental trips where you normally would not bother to pack any more shoulder hangers on. And another kit like 2) the EM-1 3 ring circus model with its wonderful battery grip and my- (life is short and you can't take it with you- splurge buy) of the wonderful sharp 12-35mm F 2.8 beauty for more serious adventures, and versatile zoom design.

 

I find truly nothing solidly worth mentioning on the top of a list of CONS to fault in the GX7 (No I am not averse to critique of bad design ) Okay, you want a CON I can dig up one if I try. If it had the swing out LCD like the GH 2 I could do selfies and other stuff I suppose. And as to controls , camera companies have a problem with real estate location. I usually forget that the playback arrow is not where I am used to it. The EM-1 locates it where it ought to be. So tell that to the engineers for the next model if they are interested....

 

I think we all know one can't optimize everything, though we human give it a good shot, which is why a 'couple' of good versatile camera kitss is a decent default choice if one can afford them. Size gets to be important as time goes by. If one can get results with small. But I underline Not Too Small for handling well. No phone will do for me. so far, not excluding next year or the next knock wood. Oh yes, forgot I do not care for the dioptric slider, it is not as fine as a wheel, but that is a small matter in the end...I can see well enough with my left away and so so with right...for my age that is.

 

 

Close focus is not ignored. I sometimes get right in there. Auto or auto plus manual with peaking does it. For close close in the field I will now and then use a Zuiko ED 50mm F 2 original version ten years old.

 

But on a trip I may find and still testing it out that my old Nikon 5T diopter with step up adapter will do fine on that 12-35mm. For a little reach beyond native close distance. Conclusion. I am happy. Without Harry Joseph's million bucks I hasten to add :-) PS: In the ThinkTank photo you will see the original strap. Company just sent me as a courtesy the latest strap with grip material on top, nice improvement in this company's solid lineup methinks....they have won me over I think. ThinkTank that is.<div></div>

[GerrySiegel]

Hector, that GM 5 does look like a worthy one to consider as well. When does small get too small is one I can't say. I like the feel of something like a grip for my hand and already have trouble keeping my paws off buttons that place me somewhere in a screen I did not want to be...the Kuiper Belt function ring, you know what I mean. I would not want the job of micro miniaturization and location of buttons. Until all cameras get voice recognition which may be the next step.

 

 

As to tilting the little flip up flash as one suggested for next iteration. I don't know, maybe yes maybe not. I kin dof think if we shoot off a ceiling or wall , I wonder. Do we think the little poofy small output flash bounced can carry its weight, I do not know. Maybe if we use high ISO but why make that choice I am thinking if a hot shoe is sitting there lonely and needs company..:-(.

 

I finally thought about it and decided to buy a used FL 36R for about 150.00 like new and liked it so much I bought another exc+ from KEH to use on a little included stand in trigger by optical mode. FL 36 got a bum rap IMO for recycling wimpiness, not that I find in pracrtice so far. The plastic fill card for 12 bucks is cute too...solid and stiff cord to keep it on the flash for bounce and fill....just mentioning that little thingie..... With NiMh batteries FL 36 out of mfr is just fine by my reckoning for TTL use, keep the two cells fully charged and batteries are not a big deal anymore ....personal viewpoint sure , and the companies have gone for the four ell units by customer demand....I don't demand it for flash fill and a little bit of light. Too bad I suggest. Because is a nice inderrated flash. Oh yes, I have an older FL 50 for heavier duty use and a Quantum Turbo but the FL 36 fits the wee bag for grab and run. I do still run these days now and then and almost forget to carry a camera but light is the thing. A phone you say? Gotta be kidding. My clamshell is on my belt for calls only. A camera is still a camera. Purpose built and we can discuss sometime convergence technology. Even my iPAD takes OK pictures, but it just aint the same feeling....

 

Now in the mesh pocket I display my 12 yo but great little FL 20 made for Camedia 5050. Sure it was never designed to work with Lumix in TTL back then since Panny was not in SLRs but one can set a custom C setting on GX7 to use FK 20 in auto mode. Auto is not a bad approach, you know. i.e. , for years we relied on Vivitar 285 in auto. There are other flashes and not a one is a bad one. I do not have experience with some of the Yongnuo so can't speak for them. I expect Metz is still in the market. Bottom line is that I use flash when EV requires flash. Aloha and a good Spring weekend to all...gerry

[GerrySiegel]

The waiting room crowd at the clinic. I wonder if red suspenders might be a litle too gauche for your community member. Heck. Why not. This is a laid back state.<div></div>

[Sanford]

<p>Off subject a bit but what do you all think about the current B&H offering of an EM5 (Elite package!) camera and kit zoom lens for $500? </p>

[GerrySiegel]

Looks to be a deal to me at B and H. If I were after one I would likely want to add the multi - piece grip (according to all user reviews, noone ever had one on shelf out here. Not even Best Buy so I never held one in hand. Users say the grip is very helpful in handling.)

 

So..if it were me as a possible buyer I would likely factor in the complementary grip accessory package. Still a hell of a bargain.... Found after months of use, and to my pleasant surprise , that the HDL 7 battery grip is, for me, a 'sine qua non' complement to the EM line of camera. Wish the package included the grip. Hey call, and see if one can negotiate a knock off price on the grip. (Tell 'em Bugsy sent you. No no. I jest...)

 

Seems on can't miss on the deal for a first rate camera at a budget price,- I mean check the reviews. It was not long ago a top tier unit; still is far as I know in functionality. You may or may not need the throw in lens What do I think? It will sell out I betcha.

[Sanford]

<p>"If you need it" - you had to add that...</p>

[GerrySiegel]

Yeah, and I revised that little noodge, Sanford old chap....

[Ian Taylor]

<p>I used a Lumix GF1 with the 20mm pancake as my <a href="https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.556795241049135.1073741830.171846589544004&type=3">walk-around</a> for a few years. Can pick them up pretty cheap. </p>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>I love my Olympus E-PL5. I use it with the VF-2 EVF and the Panny 20mm. Truly pocketable with superb image quality. The AF with Olympus lenses is lightning quick and accurate. I also like the "film grain" look of the high ISO shots (ISO 3200+), they look better than the high ISO files from my 5D MkII.</p>

[Sanford]

<p>These small mirrorless cameras with a fixed focal length lens are the real successors to the Leica IIIF.</p>

[GerrySiegel]

When I read comments like yours Jamie, with EPL-5 w/ 20mm in same sentence as 5D Mk II, I know I have company in my kind of gushy comments. That micro 4/3 is a real contender in the mirrorless marketplace and in the field. Welter weight , - maybe,-but it sure competes.

[jamie_robertson2]

<blockquote>

<p>When I read comments like yours Jamie, with EPL-5 w/ 20mm in same sentence as 5D Mk II, I know I have company in my kind of gushy comments. That micro 4/3 is a real contender in the mirrorless marketplace and in the field. Welter weight , - maybe,-but it sure competes.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>In my opinion Olympus are the only ones to have really got it right with the mirrorless camera idea. Olympus are the only company to have REALLY concentrated on compactness matched with performance. The Fujis and the Sonys are good but with APS-C and full frame sensors they have no real size advantage over DSLRs because the lenses are as big as ever. The Olympus AF system runs rings around the competition and their built in stabilisation is the best in the business. Their latest EM-5 MkII also gives us full frame beating image quality with its multi shot 40MP mode. (And before people jump in and say you can stitch shots together with a full frame camera it is NOT the same thing). </p>

<p>Looking forward to the EM-1 MkII :-)</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>Jamie, I think the Fuji is awesome, even though I chose the Olympus. In many ways, and for many people, they are better. (I don't like the Sony's form factor, but they take great pics).</p>

<p>And Panasonic has done a great job with their µ43 offerings, too. That GX7 was really tempting, but I opted for an EM-5.</p>

<p>And... the Samsung stuff, especially the latest... is really pretty amazing.</p>

<p>For me, the biggest disappointment is that Nikon (which has been my brand of choice for most of the past 10 years) never put 2 and 2 together with mirrorless. What I really wanted was a DX sensor in a mirrorless compact that worked seamlessly with Nikon lenses... </p>

<p>Bottom line... what a great array of choices we have, eh?</p>

[andylynn]

<blockquote>

<p>In my opinion Olympus are the only ones to have really got it right with the mirrorless camera idea. Olympus are the only company to have REALLY concentrated on compactness matched with performance. The Fujis and the Sonys are good but with APS-C and full frame sensors they have no real size advantage over DSLRs because the lenses are as big as ever.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You don't have to have a tiny sensor to have a small camera. I have two Fujis, a NEX and two DSLRs on my desk right now and the mirrorless camera/lens combinations are much smaller.</p><div></div>

[jamie_robertson2]

<blockquote>

<p>You don't have to have a tiny sensor to have a small camera. I have two Fujis, a NEX and two DSLRs on my desk right now and the mirrorless camera/lens combinations are much smaller.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>You're right of course but in many cases the Fujis and Sonys are often just as much of a burden as a DSLR. Put a mid range zoom on a Sony or a Fuji and it still has to go around your neck or over your shoulder. With the tiny Olympus zooms (except the f/2.8) they'll still easily go in a half decent pocket. If you compare a Canon EOS 100D DSLR and 40mm pancake to a Sony or Fuji with a prime lens there's not a huge difference in size. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>For me, the biggest disappointment is that Nikon (which has been my brand of choice for most of the past 10 years) never put 2 and 2 together with mirrorless. What I really wanted was a DX sensor in a mirrorless compact that worked seamlessly with Nikon lenses...<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think Canon and Nikon are playing the long game. Both their current mirrorless efforts are poor. I think in the next few years we will start to see the death of the pro DSLR as we know it. I believe the exterior design and overall size will remain the same because that's what pros want and need. But, it will move to mirrorless internals and electronic viewfinders. I'm looking forward to that.</p>

[andylynn]

Those Olympuses are only a little bit smaller than theFujis and Sonys. By your same logic there is no real size advantage

in choosing an Olympus over a Fuji or Sony, while there is the disadvantage of the smaller sensor. If you put an f/2.8 lens

on an Olympus, which is necessary to get it up to the performance of a full frame camera with a kit lens or a Fuji with the

18-55 kit, you've lost the size advantage.

 

The tiny Olympus kit lens is equivalent to a full frame camera with an f/7-11 lens or an APSC with AF f/4.5-7.5 lens. I've

never seen any lenses like that, but maybe if they made them they'd be that small. I used to have an Olympus with the

tiny zoom, and while it was convenient and sharp for a lot of daylight uses, it was too limiting to be very useful beyond

that. Might as well get a higher end P&S like an X30 or RX100 and have something even smaller than the Olympus. There's no real difference here from what we had before digital. You can choose mirror or no mirror, and within those

areas you have size vs capabilities tradeoffs.

[jamie_robertson2]

<blockquote>

<p>Those Olympuses are only a little bit smaller than theFujis and Sonys. By your same logic there is no real size advantage in choosing an Olympus over a Fuji or Sony, while there is the disadvantage of the smaller sensor. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>The Olympus bodies are smaller but it's the size of the lenses that make the whole system so compact. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>If you put an f/2.8 lens on an Olympus, which is necessary to get it up to the performance of a full frame camera with a kit lens or a Fuji with the 18-55 kit, you've lost the size advantage.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Nobody said the Olympus cameras were supposed to be a match for full frame image quality. Only the 40MP multi mode of the EM-5 MkII can achieve that with static subjects. My point was that Olympus seem to have got the idea of a compact mirrorless system right i.e. you get excellent image quality in a very compact system. If you put an f/2.8 soon on an Olympus it becomes far less compact but the same can be said about all other cameras. A 24-70mm f/2.8 is a damn sight less compact than a 28-80mm kit lens. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The tiny Olympus kit lens is equivalent to a full frame camera with an f/7-11 lens or an APSC with AF f/4.5-7.5 lens. I've never seen any lenses like that, but maybe if they made them they'd be that small.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Only in terms of depth of field. That's like comparing an f2.8 lens on medium format to an f/2.8 lens on 35mm, it is meaningless. An f/7-11 zoom on a full frame camera would still be huge compared to the Olympus kit lens due to the image circle. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I used to have an Olympus with the tiny zoom, and while it was convenient and sharp for a lot of daylight uses, it was too limiting to be very useful beyond that. Might as well get a higher end P&S like an X30 or RX100 and have something even smaller than the Olympus.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>The same can be said of a DSLR with a standard f/3.5 to f/5.6 kit lens. And a P&S doesn't give you the option of changing lenses to, say, the excellent 45mm f/1.8 or the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7.</p>

 

<blockquote>

 

 

<p>You can choose mirror or no mirror, and within those areas you have size vs capabilities tradeoffs.</p>

 

 

 

</blockquote>

 

Agreed.

 

[jcuknz]

<p>When I bought my 7mm 'bugeye' I needed a body for it so put it on my Oly EPL-1 and found it quite a fun camera to use ... though normally I use one of my other cameras for most things.</p>