Portable medium format advice needed

[alex_bonham_carter]

Hey guys,

I am looking for recommendations for a fairly light (mostly plastic would be nice), fairly modern, and "portable" medium format camera for

street photography and the like. I don't want something too cumbersome as I have an RZ67 that I absolutely love. I just need something

that I don't have to prop up on a tripod to use. I don't care if it has a light meter or autofocus, I can tackle both obstacles. I'm leaning

towards the Fuji GA645 for low price easy, but I'm also interested in the Mamiya 6/7 for their reported image quality. Should I consider a

TLR? I'm interested in spending $1000 towards the top, but I know that I will have to go higher for the Mamiya rangefinders. I'm not set on

any of the medium formats but I think 6x9 would be too big to be useful for my mostly online uses. Any recommendations or advice is

appreciated.

Thank you,

Alex

[User_6502147]

<p>How about Holga ? Well, kiddn aside, the Fuji 690 (..) would be a good option....tho they also make 680, but it looks beastly.</p>

<p>Les</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>You might want to look into the Fuji 645Zi. </p>

[allancobb]

Something to consider, although a bit pricey is the Bronica RF645 rangefinder system which always appealed to me and

may someday obtain for myself. Currently, I use a Bronica ETR, which I really like and with the speed grip and AE finder

still isn't much larger than some 35mm SLRs and handles nearly as easily.

[steven_clark]

<p>A good medium format folder? One of those could actually fit in a pants pocket. Get one made after about 1950 and it may even have a coated lens. Something like a Super Ikonta? An Isolette might be fine if you're willing to build a replacement for the paper bellows and use guess-the distance focus.</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>I 'd agree with Steven on this - a Zeiss Ikonta. Or maybe a Voigtlander?</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>What is your logic for believing that a lighter camera will allow you to do away with a tripod whilst maintaining the medium format advantage? Are you sure that there's a favourable relationship there?</p>

<p>If you are absolutely persuaded by this logic, be aware that some of these folders are 50+ years old- I'd call them enthusiasts cameras rather than something for extensive frequent trouble-free use. The Fuji's and Mamiya 7 are more modern and are light, though more expensive and rangefinders rather than slr and there are differences between a slr and a rangefinder that you'll need to buy into. </p>

<p>I'm not committed to film -though I used to be- and I have to say that for your purpose- light, portable,modern, no tripod, presumably quick to use on the street, I wouldn't look past a Dslr with IS unless I wanted prints bigger than say 20" x 16". And I'd probably put a zoom on it.</p>

[alex_bonham_carter]

<p>Thank you all very much for your suggestions!</p>

<p>I may have a couple of modifications to my previous requests. I'm not avoiding a tripod, I just want to take inconspicuous street photos and attempt to take portraits of people I see around. If I have to focus by feel or by distance measuring or adjust on a tripod, it wont be a spur of the moment and people may decide to walk away. The most I'd like to do, is quickly meter under their chin, set the camera and shoot. If there is a trial by error focus method, it will be very frustrating for those first few rolls. That is not to say that I am dismissing any suggestions, as I had looked at the Super Ikonta and other vintage cameras prior to buying the RZ67. I decided on the RZ67 due to its unanimous community support. Not everyone likes it, but most everyone knows how it functions.</p>

<p>I've only been shooting film for a year (digital born and raised) so while I have used a rangefinder, and I am getting lots of experience with new and unusual film cameras, I'm more looking for a pick up and go without issue camera. I would like a camera that a lot of people are familiar with and have used because I do not have a repair shop locally so if I have an issue with it, it would be convenient to easily find a wealth of knowledge through this site and others. A more obscure, vintage camera, might earn me “I would sell that thing and buy a D7100” type responses. ;) At some point in the future I’d like a few vintage cameras such as a Zeiss Ikon Nettar and Speed Graphic, but for now I’d like something more familiar in shape and function.</p>

<p>If money was not as much of an object I would buy the Mamiya 7II in a heartbeat. I may still spring for the 7 and call it a day. Those and the GW670 II are still on my short list, though the Fuji is more limited lens-wise. <br /> <br /> I'm now beginning to think that the Mamiya C330 is the camera I've been looking for all along. Inexpensive, unobtrusive, can be hand held reasonably well for most practical people shutter speeds.</p>

<p>I’m sorry that I’m so difficult to please, my head is filled with camera options and I’m having a very hard time narrowing them down. I appreciate all of your suggestions.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Warning: Reality checks ahead. No film camera is getting any younger. If you can't nail down reliable local repair or depend on your DIY chops, you're looking at disposable cameras, AKA "doorstops." Solution? Buy the newest gear in the best shape you can afford. Mamiya TLRs always remind of the old Raymond Chandler line: "about as inconspicuous as a <em>tarantula</em> on a slice of <em>angel food</em> cake." They're also far from light. Granted, the WLF helps a bit with invisibility with any camera. If you're importuning people for portraits with handheld metering and posed shots, your Mamiya RZ is all you need. Otherwise, 35mm might be better. Digital better still.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>As you are considering a 6 x 4.5 MF camera and a 6x7 may be more than you need (your interest for mainly online applications), the Mamiya 6 may fit your needs,. It is an absolutely sweet camera for street and most other applications, very quiet and compact (significantly more so than a Mamiya 7 series) with excellent optics. I prefer the 50mm lens (rough 28mm 35 angle of view) or 75 mm lens for street shooting; you don't have to put the camera on its side for simulated non square portrait or landscape framing.</p>

[alex_bonham_carter]

<p>Thank you again for your suggestions. Newest gear possible is excellent advice and while I thought that the C330 would be a lighter alternative to my existing RZ67, I could be mistaken. Perhaps the rangefinder is the ultimate street performer. My reservation with using my existing RZ67 is that for medical reasons, I cannot hope to adequately support it with my left hand without dumping the thing on the ground. I love it, but it lives on a tripod when not in the case. Now that I have been sorting through all the advice, I'm beginning to think that I should just get a rangefinder that I can quickly draw to my face, take my picture, and be finished. The C330 may be no easier than my RZ67 for handheld shooting on the fly. I can imagine racking the focus back and forth several times to focus, which sounds a little slow for street shooting. Now I must wrestle with the 35mm vs medium format for ease of use.</p>

[nickc1]

<p>Digital is the obvious and easy choice in todays world, however I would like to suggest some reasons to consider a film TLR.</p>

<p>I totally agree with the comments regarding the waist level finder as it seems to be the act of holding a camera up to the eye that makes the photographer noticeable and triggers the 'you can't take pictures here' response.</p>

<p>Despite this I wonder if the C330 is quite the solution you are looking for. Apart from the age question mentioned above, they are quite hefty brutes and may be no easier to use without a tripod - my limited personal experience with these is that they are not hand holding cameras.</p>

<p>My suggestion is a twin lens reflex of the Rollei / Yashica size on a carefully adjusted neck strap so that the strap takes the weight and you need to hold the camera steady. These are all quiet in use which cannot always be said about a camera with a focal plane shutter, and even more so a SLR. </p>

<p>You will need to find one that has not had a hard professional life, but equally if you can find a professional quality camera that has been in amateur hands it may be barely run in today.</p>

<p>Obviously they are quite old, and you would need to take care regarding condition and repairability - but you may wish to send it for a CLA anyway. You would also need to consider if film and processing is available convenient to you.</p>

<p> </p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Small, lightweight and unobtrusive are terms that really don't match up well with medium format. I have a Mamiya C330 and it doesn't fit any of those descriptions. But I also have a Yashicamat 124G TLR and it might come close to what you're looking for. Lightweight and compact (by MF standards) and has a bulit-in meter. If you want a MF SLR, look at the Mamiya 645 and Bronica ETR series -- both are a smaller version of the Mamiya you have.</p>

[david_tellet]

<p>As much as I love my C330, it is a bit of a handful on the street. A folder would give you a lot of what you want although the rangefinder ones (like the Ikontas) can be pricey. I've used a Nettar, Perkeo, and a Isolette to good results as long as the light was good. Zone focusing for all of them, but that is okay with a little practice. I know people are wary of these because of the age, but I have found them to be very dependable as long as the bellows are in good shape and if you don't need the really slow shutter speeds. <br>

The Fujis are probably the closest to what you want (with the budget). I haven't used the GA645s, but my GS 645 S is my go-to travel camera and anytime I want better image quality than my 35mm rangefinders. Only problem is the relatively slow lens and dim rangefinder patch. But it is light and easy to handhold and the lens is great. <br>

Good luck. Be careful of contracting GAS.</p>

[robert_bowring]

<p>Get a Mamiya 6 with the 50mm lens. I have used this combination for street photography for a long time. Light, reliable, quiet, great lens. Not cheap but well worth the extra cost.</p>

[alex_bonham_carter]

<p>i know that I'm a worry wart, but should I be concerned with the "fragile" film winder of the Mamiya 6? I think a 7 might be a safer option despite it being bigger/bulkier. I think the lens options, or lack of them, makes me write off the Bronica RF645 (cheaper body, but very expensive lenses) and the Fuji rangefinders (plenty sharp and good, but limited lens options). I think either the Mamiya 6 or the Mamiya 7 is the camera I want. It's bigger than I wanted, but I'd like to stay with medium format as much as possible to avoid juggling different sizes of film when possible. I also am not really attracted to 35mm film having a 5D mkIII for digital 35mm already. Yes, I could easily do everything I want with the 5D, but that's not as fun to me. </p>

[User_5888660]

<p>I shoot a lot of MF film with different cameras. My go to camera for travel/street/landscape is the Mamiya 7. The camera body and two or three lenses fit nicely in a small bag and are easy to carry all day long. While expensive, this camera certainly fits your bill. It is basically the size of a full feature DSLR. The rangefinder is quick to use and it has a very quiet shutter. </p>

<p>I have an older 330, and it is a big box compared to the 7. Much more difficult to carry and to use in an unobtrusive manner. If you are coming from digital or SLRs, the adjustment can be daunting. </p>

<p>I also have a Fuji GA645, which I use on occasion, when I am traveling and I want a smaller camera and don't need interchangeable lenses. The fuji is a nice compromise. It works similar to cameras you have already used. It is noisier than the Mamiya, but not so much so that it is distracting. I find the Fuji easier to use for portraits given the format and close focusing of the camera. Albeit, I haven't ever synced it with my strobes, so I can't comment on how it works in a studio. <br>

I highly recommend the Mamiya 7. But they are expensive. The Fuji (or a similar 645) camera may just meet your present needs with out giving up too much. </p>

 

[david_henderson]

<p>All Mamiya 6 cameras are over 20 years old. I think I'd also be concerned by the incidence of problems with wind on and the lack of Mamiya parts to repair this problem. I'd also not be happy to use a 50mm MF lens for street photography, but that's more subjective. I'd imagine that I'd end up cropping so much of the image away that I might as well have used 25mm. </p>

<p>That said, it depends what you mean by "street". Jeff Spirer used to use a Mamiya 7 with a wide lens for what you might term "head to waist" environmental portraits when travelling. That said, his subjects were mostly clearly aware that they were being photographs and happy about it. I'd use different <strong>MF </strong>cameras for close/co-operative and further away/unaware.</p>

[alex_bonham_carter]

<p>I am certainly more interested in intentional portraits. I want to approach perfect strangers and challenge myself to make a nice photo. I think a 50mm will be too wide for me, but probably for my use, the 80mm would be a good start with the Mamiya system. I am convinced that the Mamiya 7 is the best all around performer for me.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>The points about the Mamiya 7 are good, as it is likely still easily repairable with parts. However, other factors like image aspect ratio are important and while I love my Fujifilm 6x9, often on a tripod, for landscapes and architectural photography undemanding of need for perspective alteration (lens to film plane lateral movements), the square image is one I often use and print to for street work, or nearly that format (say 16 x 16 to 16 x 20), the Mamiya 6 is preferred for its compactness.</p>

<p>I am gentle enough (just normal handling) with the 6 wind mechanism that it has never been a problem in 15 years, although at one point I purchased a used 6 body for parts but then resold it a number of years later when it simply sat on a shelf. If I could accept the bulk of the 7 for portrait and street work (the 6 with standard 75mm lens, collapsed or not, is quite small) I would have one and use it as a more all around camera and then probably acquire the excellent 43mm lens. </p>

[john_photos]

<p>Shot a Mamiya 7 for around 10 years. An extremely fragile and cheaply constructed camera. Mine was constantly going out of alignment and more than once on overseas trips. YMMV though I am very careful with my gear so keep this in mind.<br>

Great travel camera for non tripod use though. Miss it sometimes. Now have a fuji 645zi that I picked up cheap and use in its place as the 645 format works great for 90 percent of my intended output. <br>

If u think of all the things that degrade image quality with handheld photography I think in many ways 6x7 is overkill as it was always a compromise versus using a MF SLR with tripod. The Mamiya 7/6 cameras have great optics. Unfortunately, if u use the cameras handheld u degrade some of the advantage over an SLR optics wise. However, if u must shoot handheld they are quite nifty and will trump any Medium Format SLR at the vast majority of shutter speeds . If money is no object then go for it but if you want really big prints its always better to use a tripod. MF rangefinders on a tripod are an absolute nightmare ergonomically and framing wise vs a MF SLR when used on a tripod. This was my experience.</p>

 

[brandon_ward]

<p>I got my Mamiya 6 with the full assortment of lenses a month ago from Japan. My early impressions:</p>

<p>1. I can see that the film winder could be fragile, but IME it's always the problem you don't anticipate that bites you, not the one you think will happen. Consider all of the '6 owners that HAVEN'T posted problems to the Internet.</p>

<p>2. Plastic/rubber appears to have degraded ever so slightly over time - it's a little sticky, especially if my hands are the least bit sweaty. No biggie so far.</p>

<p>3. Images are NEEDLE-PRECISION-TACK SHARP. WOW. Looking at a tripod mounted RVP 100 chrome on my lightbox with a Schneider 4x loupe takes my breath away. I should also add, my Bronica ETR images (when tripod mounted) look fantastic, too. But there seems to be something "extra sharp" about the Mamiya - believe the hype.</p>

<p>4. I'm good with the bokeh, at least so far. Some have complained of it. Maybe I'm just bowled over by the tonality, creaminess and "medium format look", but I like the OOF areas and what have you. Quite pleasant.</p>

<p>5. Leaf shutter! You can squeeze a couple of extra stops out of your shutter speed and still get good results. I think I shot an available light portrait of a buddy at 1/15 with the 50mm lens and the in-focus areas are perfectly sharp, at least on the 4" reference print.</p>

<p>6. Leaf shutter! This camera is so quiet to operate, it puts a grin on your face, especially when you are trying to be quiet and hear the light "click" of the shutter. No mirror slap is nice.</p>

<p>7. Rangefinder limitations and pros/cons - they exist.</p>

<p>8. Not digital! For good and bad. Returning to film after 10 years (though not exclusively) has been an excellent challenge for me and reinvigorating. I shoot differently with my DSLR than with my Bronica ETR than with the Mamiya. And I love shooting all of them, but especially MF film.</p>

<p>9. Be prepared that you may only be able to shoot B&W through this one day, if she serves you loyally and stays functional. The lovely color emulsions seem to be dying off a few at a clip. Commit to hoard film (I need to spend my $200 on 120 film yet this month, note to self). </p>

<p>10. The 150mm is a bit tough for me to focus, as the RF overlap area is a bit hard to see, or else I just need more practice (probably both). It's the least used of the 3 lenses on my rig so far.</p>

<p>11. You're buying into a (most likely) fully depreciated, devalued, obsolete operating system (film) and can get fantastic deals - hence the risk outlined above. And, yeah, I love seeing images from a 5DMKIII or D800, and want to want to upgrade my digital rig, but...I enjoy film. No matter what anyone says, a DSLR WILL be obsolete quickly. If you buy new in this market, you get great image quality at the top end, but...you're pre-paying someone else's depreciation. </p>

<p>12. We have lots of options as photographers today. Don't overthink it. Maybe buy two Fujis, or buy a Mamiya 6/7. But buy one. You'll buy more. I'm in the process of getting my granddad's Ikoflex restored. Why not? We live once - if a camera helps you get off the couch and shooting, or just "fits" properly in your hand, that's what counts. The Mamiya 6 feels right in my hand, as does my ETR. And I'mg digging formats other than APS-C or 135, especially square - "refreshing" is the word that comes to mind when I look through the finder.<br>

Good luck with the decision and getting to know your new camera(s)!</p>

 

[patrick_giagnocavo2]

<p>I would second the use of a TLR. <br>

The Mamiya C330 is heavy and bulky, with the C220 weighing less but about the same size, but still able to take interchangeable lenses. Two caveats - the film transport on the C330 can work, but in a way that causes the film to buckle, reducing sharpness; and, some of them were heavily used. Even the C220 might be too heavy for you. If the size and weight don't bother you , they are good cameras overall.<br>

I would suggest either a Rolleiflex, (most expensive option) or even a known-working YashicaMat, Autocord, or Ricoh. The completely manual Ricohflex with the geared lenses is very light and compact, has no double-exposure prevention, and you have to use the "red window" technique to advance the film; but the lens itself is excellent (Tessar design) and will give you the same big 6x6 negative.<br>

If you can, try to handle a few of these cameras beforehand. If you are talking to people (vs being completely invisible and unknown while you take a picture with no one else noticing you), what camera you have in your hand is not likely to matter too much ; and the use of the waist-level finder, with you looking away from the person, seems less "direct".<br>

One other option - get a sturdy monopod for your RZ67, make sure it is firmly attached, and heave it over your shoulder to carry it like an old-time photographer (or hobo).</p>

[neil_poulsen8]

<p>My problem with the Mamiya 6, 7, TLR, etc., is that they don't have interchangeable backs. If one's using color film, then it doesn't matter much. But if black and white, for my purposes, interchangeable backs are essential to match development to conditions at the time of exposure. </p>

<p>Have you considered a Mamiya Press camera or a Koni-Omega? They're both rangefinders, and they both have interchangeable backs. As for the former, they can be reliable cameras, if one has the finder adjusted and the lenses checked. (I don't own, and can't say much about Koni-Omegas.) The backs hold film extremely flat. However, a Mamiya Press Universal (for example) is a bit klutzy. No automated features like auto film advance, auto-shutter cocking, double-exposure protection, etc. But, it's a well designed system with parallax correction and internal frames (6x7 & 6x9) for 100mm, 150mm, and 250mm lenses. Wider lenses, like a 50mm, 65mm, or a 75mm require their own finder.</p>

<p>There is some variation between the lenses. The 150mm isn't as sharp as one would like. But, the 100mm f2.8 and the wider 50mm are quite sharp. For street photography, motion is also going to have it's own set of consequences. One does have the larger 6x7 or 6x9 negative on these cameras, which won't require as much enlargement.</p>