New IPS Monitor without Flicker

[jim_mohundro1]

Here's the set-up:

It's time to bring my ailing, but classic, VX922 Viewsonic 19" 1280 x 1024 to the next traveling Antiques Roadshow and upgrade to a

modestly-priced 23" or 24" IPS monitor. Considering I'll also have to upgrade my video card to at least deal with as much as 1920 x 1200

native resolution for my desktop PC on which I'm running Lightroom 5.7.1 (soon to be LR 6), I've set my maximum budget to about $350

(well, maybe uo to $400 maximum). I've also just moved up from a Spyder 3 Express calibrator (which I'd comfortably used to date with

the Viewsonic) to a Spyder 4 Elite, of which I made a fortuitous purchase in Vancouver, B,C., taking advantage of the excellent (for US

folks) US/Canadian exchange rate.

 

Rather than rely on the sometimes problematic HDMI/DVI adapters, I've chosen to stick with my desktop PC's straightforward DVI output

and that has limited, a bit, my choices within my budget constraints. The size of the monnitor itself is also somewhat narrowed, literally,

by the physical space I've been able to allocate to my monitor choice.

 

I had sort of focused my choices, based on my budget and some reviews balanced between positive and slighty negative, to the NEC

ea234WMI-BK on the smaller side, and the NEC ea244WMI and Asus PA248q on the larger side.

 

I was close to making the final choice, also constrained a bit by the fact that no one of these monitors is actually on view where I live, so

my buying choice needs to be on-line. Although I've comfortaby puchased a Nikon D700 on line from B&H, I'm a bit nervous about the

monitor; it's a much larger, more awkwardly re-packable item to return to an online vendor if the monitor is DOA or obviously

unsatisfactory otherwise. I have found that, for a price not much greater than some online sellers, and even sometimes less, that

Staples will honor an online order of any of the monitors I've considered with delivery to a local Staples store which will return the monitor

for me to the manufacturer within 14 days if there's a problem with the monitor, so that firm may be my eventual vendor.

 

Now, at last, the "flicker" issue. In my review of online forums postings on the subject, I've suddenly been confronted with a problem that,

in pratical use, may or may not be a problem. An apparently quite knowledegable and veteran poster on another forum has discussed at

some length the apparent problem of "flicker" and has linked to web sites and YouTube videos that purport to show actual flicker on many

monitors. Apparently it's a phenomenon mostly peculiar to the now-common LED backlinghing for most current monitors, and the Pulse

Wave Modulation (PWM) "circuit" that most moniors employ to "control" monitor brightness. There is at least one web site that tests

monitors for the employment of PWM and reports its effects on montor viewing. My monitor choice was simple until I starting reading and

worrying about this stuff!

 

The NECs and Asus in which I've been interested apparently have the PWM problem. On expensive, beyond my monior budget level,

the problem does not seem as prevalent. The poster who first brought this to my attention noted that there is a Dell P2414h which has

been characterized by the Flicker Database web site to be flicker-free but really no others within my budget that also have DVI

connections. I've had two or three Dell desktops in earlier years but no Dell monitors, but I infer from many internet postings that Dells

can be great and Dells can be not so good and, in general, in their very large line, tend to be uneven, even among the same models.

 

Now I seem to be stuck on the flicker "problem", hesistant to make the move.

 

Is flicker generally a problem in practical photo editing (and MS Word, etc) use?

 

New illumination on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[JDMvW]

<p>Nobody "knows" anything any more:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The exact refresh rate necessary to prevent the perception of flicker varies greatly based on the viewing environment. In a completely dark room, a sufficiently dim display can run as low as 30 Hz without visible flicker. At normal room and TV brightness this same display rate would produce flicker so severe as to be unwatchable.<br /><br />Another factor in detecting flicker is peripheral vision. The human eye is most sensitive to flicker at the edges of human field of view, and least sensitive at the center of gaze (the area being focused on). As a result, the greater the portion of our field of view that is occupied by a display, the greater is the need for high refresh rates. This is why computer monitor CRTs usually run at 70 to 90 Hz, while TVs, which are viewed from further away, are seen as acceptable at 60 or 50 Hz (see Analog television Standards).</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_%28screen%29<br /> <br /> I haven't seen flicker on a monitor in many years, even with my peripheral vision. Had forgot about it, frankly.</p>

[Supriyo]

<p>I use dual Dell U2414H monitors, and I haven't noticed any flickering. They are great for photo editing, since they are factory calibrated.</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>I haven't seen flicker on a monitor in many years.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Me either, it's a non issue. At least with a display that cost more than a few tanks of gas. </p>

[jim_mohundro1]

I can't find an "edit" link on Photonet, so this is my edit: The maximum budget of $350(or maybe $400) is for the monitor

itself.

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>I've got a Dell U2412M (with Spyder 4 Pro), which fits your budget quite easily; for the price I think it is a good performer. It is, however, not a wide gamut monitor, those tend to have prices more towards the upper end of your budget.<br>

The flickering story sounds a bit like a limited product issue mixed with internet hype and claimed expertise on the subject. With all the LCD panels I've seen (quite a few), I never ever noticed anything like it. It would be interesting to add the link to the actual site discussing it, and the youtube videos, to understand what it's all about and whether there is legitimate cause of concern.</p>

[keith_b1]

<p>The flicker is a non-issue for the vast majority of people. There are a few who claim to see flicker where 99% of folks don't. If you happened to be one of those---unlikely, since you would already have had issues with current monitors----then it'd be good idea to have an easy way to return the purchase.</p>

[jim_mohundro1]

<p>Wouter Willhelmse,<br>

Thanks for the tip on the Dell U2412M but it is no longer being sold in this country.<br>

I'm not aiming, on my budget, for a wide-gamut IPS monitor; I know that's not possible. I would like a monitor affordable to me that will do a decent job in the SRgb gamut (say 90% - 95%) and anything left over for Adobe Rgb is a possible bonus.<br>

These are the web links for the general TFT site and for its "Flicker-fee" database:</p>

<p ><a href="http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews_index.htm">http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews_index.htm</a></p>

<p > </p>

<p >http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/flicker_free_database.htm</p>

<p >Perhaps I should just dismiss these articles but now that they've been brought to my attention...<br /></p>

<p >It's unfortunate that no photo-editing IPS monitor is available in my locality to view in a brick-and-mortar store, but I'd really at least like to see how the Lightroom panel format lays out on a 16:9 and a 16:10 monitor, to see if I should have a preference between the two. I know it would be different from my existing, older, non-IPS 19" Viewsonic. I posted the question on the Adobe Community forum yesterday but I've not seen a screen shot so far.<br /></p>

[AlanKlein]

<p>In Windows there use to be a refresh rate when right clicking the Desktop so you could select let's say 70 or 80 cycles rather than the standard 60 cycles refresh rate. I use to do that with old monitors but that was years ago. It would get rid of the flickering.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>There's enough persistence in an LCD monitor to preclude visible flicker. Besides, these displays work completely different from a CRT - there's no space between refresh frames. You might get a strobe effect in videos from a 30 Hz refresh rate, but 60 Hz is easily achievable with most displays and video cards, even at the highest resolution.</p>

<p>Aliasing is more of a problem. Avoid that by setting the video card to the native resolution of your monitor.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>TFTCentral is a pretty good source indeed, so I guess I've got some reading up to do for this flickering :-)<br>

As for 16:9 versus 16:10, I think the main thing to look out for is the vertical resolution. The difference between 1080 and 1200 is easy to notice; but moving up to larger panels with higher resolutions, 16:9 may work fine because you simply get enough pixels vertically. I don't use Lightroom myself, so I cannot help with a screenshot. When given the choice, I much prefer 16:10, but brick and mortar stores indeed usually have only 16:9 low(er) end panels.</p>

[jim_mohundro1]

Wouter Willemse,

 

I think if I were only using the monitor for photo editing, using Lightroom, I'd be pretty indifferent between the two formats,

but I also do some teaching and writing and I'm not so sure how, for example, MS Word will work on a smaller screen

vertically. It's clear from the screen dimensions I've found that my old 19" Viewsonic povides more vertical landscape

than, especially, the 16:9.

 

Of course, most modern 16:9 and 16:10 monitor displays can be rotated 90%, and that might work for me if the

mechanism is smooth and, perhaps more important, long-lasting and maintenance-free. This new feature for me adds a

mechanical element and mchanical elements can bring an additional source o repair concerns.

[jim_mohundro1]

As a follow-up and correction to one of my previous posts in this thread, I've talked with B&H which had, and still has, two

listings for the Dell U2412M, one stating it is available and one, just below it if you use the search panel, that states that it

is no longer available. B&H now agrees that the second listing is incorrect and that the monitor is availble. My earlier

note on this seemed also to be verified to me because the U2412M was no longer avaiolable on the Staples web site, and

based on these two sources of information, I made my mistaken note of the monitor's lack of availability.

 

By the way, I did and continue to consider Staples as a possible on-line vendor for my monitor purchase because Staples'

policy provides for Staples handing the return of any item purchased through its web site if the item turns out to be faulty

(a DOA monitor or non-functioning camera, for example).

[Richard Williams]

<p>Like JDM and Andrew, I haven't seen flicker on monitors for a very long time and I'm pretty sensitive to it. CRTs at 60Hz and below really bother me, but LCDs at this frequency are absolutely fine, as Edward says. Although I don't think I've used any of the supposedly troublesome models with PDM, I do use the (60Hz) U2412M you mention and can confirm that I have no problem with it. For a 24" monitor, I also much prefer the 16:10 ratio (now rare).</p>