Nikon AI Nikkor-P Auto 105mm f2.5 Telephoto Lens

[deantaylor]

<p>hello<br /><br />The owner of the lens indicates that an adaptor is needed for mounting this lens...in good condition, what is a fair price? what type of adaptor is called for?<br /><br />thank you</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>If the lens is a Nikkor AI lens it should mount on any Nikon SLR from the original Nikon F onward with no adapter. It will meter only on cameras that have a mechanical meter coupling (which means not on the D3xxx or D5xxx, for example). But it will mount and operate. I use an earlier version on my D3200.</p>

<p>There were many generations of the 105/2.5. It looks as if the version you refer to would cost about $145 from KEH.com in excellent condition (by their ratings, that's likely to be very nice). </p>

<p> </p>

[luke_kaven]

<p>If the lens for any reason does not say "AI"on it, then you should not mount it on a modern camera. The adaptation is a simple one, and it involves carving a small notch in the aperture ring to accommodate a follower-ring on the camera body. Without this notch, the lens will crush the follower-ring when the lens is mounted. But the adaptation is a one-time fix, can be done by a Nikon tech shop, and should cost only about $35.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Maybe the owner thinks of selling it to an owner of a mirrorless camera?<br>

If it is a proper AI lens, it will mount anything with Nikon F mount, as Matthew described. What Luke warns for is the older lenses (manufactered before 1977) - but you do not need an adapter for those, to adapt those the lensmount is actually physically altered, so it's not a spare you can buy. I don't think it actually says "AI" on the lens itself (it doesn't on any of my AI lenses), so it's better to check a photo of the lens mount itself (ask the seller if he can send one), and compare it. <a href="http://www.kehblog.com/2011/10/nikon-lenses-non-ai-ai-ai-s-and-aid.html">This blog article</a> explains the differences quite well, so you can verify that way whether it is AI/AI-S/ AI'd (=works fine) or 'Pre-AI' (=do not mount, risk of damages).</p>

<p>The 105 f/2.5 is one of Nikon's classics, and deservedly so. A really great lens, well worth trying out. As far as I am concerned, performance wise, it's still up there with the best.</p>

[robert_bouknight1]

<p>The "P" designation indicates that the lens was made before somewhere around 1973, which is well before the factory made any AI lenses.</p>

<p>It could have been AI converted with factory components as indicated by the more modern aperture ring with holes in the ears, or the original aperture ring could be milled to work on AI cameras. The milled conversions work fine.<br>

<img src="/photo/18020977" alt="" /> Picture of an "experienced" P-C 105mm AI converted with a factory ring (in my gallery)</p>

<p> </p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>KEH at the moment does show one "Nikkor P AI" lens, and the picture shows the P designation on a lens that is clearly AI, but their description is ambiguous. If it's AI at all, I think it must be a conversion, because it's also said to say "Nippon Kogaku" on it, which marks it as pre-AI era. Mine is an early iteration of the later "Gauss" design, a pre-AI Nikkor P, with the ring milled for AI, and it works very nicely indeed. I would mention though that unlike many other pre-AI lenses, this one had a little assist spring attached to the aperture ring, which made home conversion pretty finicky. The 35/2.8 and the 85/1.8 were a piece of cake, but that took some time.</p>

<p>As Robert Bouknight mentions, the "Nikkor P" designation suggests a Pre-AI lens, as the last Pre-AI iteration was a Nikkor PC with slightly improved coating, and the AI, as far as I know, dropped the P designation altogether. Many were converted, though. If the price is right, it's worth following up. </p>

<p>If you can get a serial number on the lens, this site will tell you which kind it is, or at least which kind it started out as:</p>

<p>http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html</p>

[CoryAmmerman]

<p>The 105/2.5 Nikkor P was a non-AI lens to begin with. Nikon dropped the designators for the number of elements before switching to the AI system (P is for penta or 5 in this case). It won't be labeled if it's non-AI or AI or AIS. You'll need to determine that visually.</p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/18021047-md.jpg" alt="IMG_20150512_1100157_rewind" width="680" height="490" border="0" /></p>

<p>If it has been factory converted to AI, It will look like this one. Note the aperture follower ridge (yellow arrow) and the fact that the rabbit ears have holes in them.</p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/18021046-md.jpg" alt="IMG_20150512_1059316_rewind" width="680" height="470" border="0" /></p>

<p>If it has been hacked by some third party, the rear of the lens aperture ring will have been ground down, leaving a ridge like the one above and the rabbit ears will probably still be the original solid ones.</p>

<p>If there is no ridge, then it is still non-AI and can only be mounted to the 3xxx and 5xxx series Nikon DSLR's without modification.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>If it is non-Ai, that is not a problem. Ship it to John White at AIConversions.<br>

http://aiconversions.com/</p>

<p>He did four of my lenses, including the 105 f/2.5 P, that I used on my FTn. They work perfectly on my F100 and should work on any Nikon DSLR with an F mount. Mr. White has the proper jigs and mills the cut; a professional job.</p>

<p>The 105 f/2.5 is a classic Nikon portrait lens, one of the best Nikon made, and is a nice telephoto.</p>

[henryp]

<p>If it's unconverted it may still be worth buying, depending on price and condition, Then send it to <a href="http://www.aiconversions.com/">John White</a>. The 105/2.5 is widely considered one of the finest lenses Nikon ever produced.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br />B&H Photo-Video</p>

[Kent Shafer]

I believe KEH designates

older lenses converted

with factory parts as "AI"

and lenses converted by

machining as "AI'd."

[blumesan]

<p>All of the responses contain good and accurate information. I too would second the recommendation of John White.</p>

<p>But bottom line, the owner's mention of the requirement for an "adapter" indicates that he/she is ill-informed. You really need good photos of the lens, including the serial number, to correctly determine what is being offered. <br>

As Matthew mentioned, if KEH is offering this lens at $145, that gives you a good indication of a fair price.</p>

[deantaylor]

<p><img src="http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah250/stonewhite54/a.pn1_zpsyyry7oew.png" alt="" width="1024" height="679" /><img src="http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah250/stonewhite54/a.pn_zps6wvpz8tn.png" alt="" width="1024" height="679" /></p>

[deantaylor]

<p>Is it possible to evaluate the modification on this lens?</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>Looks like a factory AI ring replacement, but I'm really not too sure. The perforated shoe is right, and it has the secondary aperture scale, but it doesn't <em>quite</em> look like the factory aperture ring replacement I had done on a few of my pre-AI lenses. So I wouldn't say for certain that it's a Nikon conversion. Might be a 3rd party adaption.</p>

<p>I once owned a 105mm f/2.5 Nikkor-P of this vintage - pre-AI version. It will only have single coated optics, and IME it's only an average performing lens.</p>

<p>IMHO, if you're not a collector but a user (sounds like you actually want to use the lens Dean), then I'd leave this lens alone and get a newer Ai-S version, which will be fully compatible with modern Nikon DSLRs and will have NIC or SIC multi-coating.</p>

[deantaylor]

<p><em>"It will only have single coated optics, and IME it's only an average performing lens."</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

<em><br /></em>thanks for the input, Rodeo Joe and all who weighed in...</p>

<p>Best,</p>

<p>Dean</p>

[blumesan]

<p>To add to what Rodeo Joe has said:<br>

Yes the photos look like this lens has been AI converted and should thus attach (without adapter) to any Nikon F mount camera. Unfortunately no photo of the front of the lens. If it is labled "P" only it will lack multicoating. <br>

If labled "P-C" it will be multicoated if the serial number is greater than 500001. If this is the case, and if the asking price is very attractive ($100 - 125) you may want to consider the purchase.</p>

[deantaylor]

<p>it's labeled 'Nikkor-P' with a serial #277155...better to let it ride, as has been pointed out...</p>

<p>Best,</p>

<p>Dean</p>

[User_502260]

<p>One of my 105/2.5s is all black and has the P marking. It was the one right before the PC and the slightly later 'K'. The all black P lens I have has a coating with the same colors as the 'K' so some P lenses, very late a black ones, were also multicoated even if they were not yet marked PC. As a manufacturer switches from one model of a lens to another there is bound to be some overlap as some parts are used up more quickly than others. Some Minolta MC Rokkor-X lenses still had the depth of field preview tab left over from the MC lenses. I also have a Canon 24/2.8 FD SSC with the chrome front ring.</p>

[deantaylor]

<p><em>"...some P lenses, very late a black ones, were also multicoated ..."</em><br>

for a beginner, then, how to detect the fact of multi-coating...?</p>

<p> </p>

[blumesan]

<p>Dean,</p>

<p>Based on the serial number: Lens made before Mar 1971. Not coated. See here:<br>

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html#105</p>

[User_502260]

<p>If you compare the look of a lens which is known to have multicoating with one which does not have multicoating you can see the difference. Typically the multicoated lens will show reflections from the front and near front elements and these reflections will show more than one color. I have an old 13.5CM f/3.5 which has older coating with a blue cast. It is coated but not multicoated. The comment that the 105/2.5 with the serial Number of 277155 is "not coated" is not correct. It simply has an older coating, which we would not call multicoating. The next batch of 105/2.5s is shown in the details section to be black. My black P lens, which I do not have in front of me right now, was probably made at the tail end of that production run and may have overlapped the production of the PC model for a short time. The photosynthesis website, like the Canon Camera Museum website, is a good resource but not all of the information in it is guaranteed to be correct in every detail. According to what I have seen on the photosynthesis website, production of the early 50/1.8 AI and the late 50/2 AI also overlapped. </p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>My 105, which is, like Jeff Adler's, one of the last iteration of the single coated pre-AI ones, Serial 465136, shows a pinkish purple (lilac, perhaps) reflection. This is similar to the older lenses that I know for sure are single coated, including a very old 85/1.4 and 28/3.5. Among other pre-AI lenses, the 1970 vintage 50/1.4 shows lilac and yellow. The known multicoated 35/2.8, the last pre AI version, shows green. The 35/2.8 PC is an outlier from the transitional years with a multitude of colors, all faint, coating unknown. </p>

<p>Of approximately 9 AI, AIS and AF lenses I looked at, all show a green reflection or have green as a major player. </p>

[User_502260]

<p>Now I will have to find mine It will be no easy task. You must mean a very old 85/1.8 because according to the photosynthesis website the first 85/1.4 was an AIS and dated to March of 1981. I have never seen a 35/2.8 Nikkor with the SC marking. The 'K' lens which replaced it has six elements rather than seven. It was carried over to the first version of the 35/2.8 AI. This six element design was better than either the old S or the five element design which followed as the second AI and the AIS. I have one 'K' version and one AI version. The late AI with five elements isn't bad. It's just not as good as the six element design.</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>Yes, that was a misprint, and I meant 85/1.8 from about 1970. Not as old as I'd originally remembered. The 35/2.8 is a K version from about 1975, and I've never been really fond of it. It's not bad, but not as sharp as the PC.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

I have a Nikkor-P 105 f/2.5 and a much later AiS 105 f/2.5. The only thing where I notice the difference (the multi-coating and over 15 years of age) is wide open; the older has slightly less contrast at the widest apertures. On the other hand, it has a much nicer weighted focus ring. If the price is right, I would get this lens. There is nothing mediocre about it.