D700, D3 still relevant as a new purchase?

[5711]

<p>there you go..seventy years old and not complaining about weight.<br>

the next time someone complains about the higher weight of the bigger bodies i am going to <br>

qoute you :)</p>

<p> </p>

[scott_murphy5]

<p>My D700 is still my only DSLR. I am used to heavier cameras and my go-to 35mm camera is an F4E, which is about the same size and weight as the D700 with the battery pack on it. And commercial images I have taken with it have wound up on billboards. For most work, <em>12MP with high quality glass</em> is all you really need.</p>

[Richard Williams]

<blockquote>

<p>Andrew, the d800 shutter vibration and AF accuracy issues are <a href="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1309559/0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Known Issues</a> at this point, and likely much of the impetus for Nikon (quietly) improving them in the 810 by adding an electronic front curtain. the dreaded shutter slap wont induce vibration at fast enough shutter speeds, but that's of little consolation if you're shooting in the 1/8-1/250 range where that's most-often reported. also, while the storage issue does offer workarounds like cloud, cloud requires an electronic connection which may not be possible in remote areas with no wi-fi reception. that's an issue if your idea of travel is off the beaten path.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'm sure the D810 shutter improvements are worthwhile, but it's not as if the D800 can't achieve excellent results, even handheld, with a sensible choice of shutter speeds: http://www.luminescentphoto.com/blog/2012/07/16/nikon-d800-maximizing-sharpness/<br>

As for storage, a 64GB card holds about 800 14-bit lossless NEFs. These cards as now very affordable (especially if you only need slower SD cards), probably more so than the smaller cards needed to hold the same number of D700 images that people were buying when the older camera was launched. 2TB USB hard drives are also ridiculously cheap, if you travel with a laptop for image transfer. For me, the most significant limitations are the limited spread of focus points (which the D810 does not improve on) and the slow framerate (better on the 810, but still nowhere near the 8fps of the D700 and grip). I would whinge about the weight, but I don't feel I can after Norbert's comment :-)</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Andrew, the d800 shutter vibration and AF accuracy issues are <a href="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1309559/0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Known Issues</a> at this point, and likely much of the impetus for Nikon (quietly) improving them in the 810 by adding an electronic front curtain.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have been using the D800 and D800E for over three years, and I have never experienced such "known issues." Some early D800 had the left AF point issue but should all have been fixed by now. Fortunately for me, the D800 and D800E I used never had that problem. If I am serious about taking full advantage of 36MP, I use a heavy tripod, lock up the mirror and use live view to fine tune the focus. Mirror slap and AF are not even in the picture.</p>

<p>The D810 indeed has quite a few small improvements over the D800, but those "known issues" are, in my opinion, mostly excuses for those who need justifications to spend a lot of money for a fairly minor upgrade to the D810.</p>

<p>In other year or two, those same people will no doubt come up with another set of "known D810 issues" to justify the next round of upgrade to whatever the successor for the D810 will be. Nikon can hardly find better customers (than those who are willing to upgrade with every generation).</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that since the D3 and D700 from 2007/2008, Nikon FX bodies are all quite good. There are some more gradual improvements from one generation to another, especially in terms of video capture. High-ISO results and dynamic range has improved by a stop or two over a span of 7, 8 years. Otherwise, the one thing that Nikon really needs an update is the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module, whose fundamental design hasn't changed after 8 years.</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<blockquote>

<p>I have been using the D800 and D800E for over three years, and I have never experienced such "known issues."</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Nor have I, for the record. My D800E has turned into my real workhorse for serious work. Going on three years out, I recently noticed that it has three dust spots. Guess I really ought to clean them off, all three of them. I can see them on some sky shots.</p>

<p>It is a darned fine camera.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Again, I agree. I believe the D800 may be slightly more likely than "lesser" cameras to show vibration in a particular shutter speed range, but I've always believe that's only a function of the resolution (and I wouldn't be surprised if the "issues" seen on the A7R were mostly resolution-based as well); I might be a bit nervous around 1/30s (although if I'm using a shutter speed of 1/30s I'm usually in such dark conditions that I expect to lose resolution to noise anyway) but I'm really not feeling the need to top 1/250s just to avoid camera vibration. Does the D810's EFCS help slightly at some shutter speeds? I'm sure it does (although, incidentally, I've never understood how the shutter <i>closing</i> isn't just as much of a problem). But just as you don't need to use mirror lock-up on every shot to get a sharp image out of a D800, the shutter doesn't somehow ruin every shot. As for the autofocus, I had some more trouble with a few lenses (notably the 35mm Sigma, although that has proven "weird" on the D810 as well) than with the D810, but absolutely no trouble with others. I do think the D810's autofocus is improved, but I have no reason to believe the D800's is any worse than the D700's, beyond the additional ability to see when the focus point is missed. I trust the D810 slightly more than I trusted my D800, but it's not like most of my D800 shots were out of focus - misbehaviour was rare. Of course, my D800 didn't have the left focus point issue. For what it's worth, I do believe I was right to upgrade from a D800 to D810 - not just for NAS - the difference has been detectable and appreciable. But nothing like as huge as the D700 to D800 upgrade.<br />

<br />

I went to the Wildlife Photographer of the Year Exhibition at the London Natural History Museum yesterday, as I do every year. A remarkable number of the shots on show were taken with a D800 (including one by an 8-year old with a 200-400, allegedly). Thom Hogan referred to it as the best camera available (price no object) for some time. It's not perfect, but there's really not much wrong with it.<br />

<br />

Unless you need motor power, the D6x0's autofocus is going to be a huge improvement over the F5's. Frankly, the D3000's autofocus is better than the F5's - the F5 was very early in the autofocus game, and doesn't have anything like the calculation ability of a DSLR (or barely of a calculator...) It doesn't sound as though speed or autofocus is a huge issue for Dennis, otherwise a D3 or D700 would make more sense. But the D6x0's autofocus is definitely a step back from the D7100's.<br />

<br />

Dennis sounds like he's settled on a D750, which is a fine camera, the closest in behaviour to the D7100 he already knows, and I'm sure will meet his needs perfectly well. I just felt the need to "clear the name" of the D800!</p>

[chip_chipowski]

<blockquote>

<p>I have been using the D800 and D800E for over three years, and I have never experienced such "known issues."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for sharing this, Shun. When somebody mentions "known issues," I tend to take the statement with a grain of salt. Especially when that person is not speaking from first hand knowledge. True, there is sometimes substance behind the "known" issue. But the amount of substance is usually not well known.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Chip, if you read that "known issues" link, it is merely a forum post on Fred Miranda: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1309559/0<br>

Essentially just about anybody can make any claim on a forum post, on photo.net or elsewhere. There are a lot of fairly outrageous posts on various forums. If it were an official review on DPReview, I may give it more creditability.</p>

<p>I didn't bother to read that post on Fred Miranda very carefully, but they are talking about hand holding a 70-200mm/f2.8 VR @ 200mm, f2.8, and they claim that on the D810, they can hand hold at 1/4 sec and get really sharp images. If you can't do that on a D800, apparently that is the big "known issue." And sure enough, that is their justification to spend $800 to upgrade from a D800 to D810.</p>

<p>It makes it wonder whether people actually read the stuff they link into this forum first.</p>

[pieter_wolters]

<p>We all know that until 2 or 3 years ago, no proper images were made. You can only make good photo's with the latest kit... <br>

But seriously: it all comes down to the price. If the difference between a D700/D3s and the newer equivalents is not that big, go for the new ones. But if there's a substantial saving, I would buy the older camera's. You probably only notice the improvements when comparing old and new side-by-side. </p>

 

[dennisbarnett]

<p>BTW, I know this is a slightly late response to my own thread, but to answer Barry Fisher and perhaps other respondents on my use of an M9, and as long as I had that, why look at the others?... I only used that camera for a short time. I can no longer trust my eyesight and, of course, the Leica is manual focus, and I often do like the flexibility of a good zoom lens. I then rented a Fuji XT-1 and loved its combination of weight for travel, image sharpness and color, and AF, so I purchased that system second-hand and don't regret it. I still would like to get into an FX format with the Nikon.</p>

[stephen_smith17]

<p>Dennis...I am a working photographer who owns and uses the D700, D3s and D50. All three are fine cameras. If you are looking to get an FX camera now for your needs as described the D610 would be a good choice, factory refurbs are available for around $1000 at this time. That's a great value for the performance of the 610. The 750 gives you a little more low light capability and a better focus module, costing around $900 more.<br>

I would not recommend buying a D700 at this time. I love my D700, have almost 200K shots on it, still use it often for interior work, but the 610 and 750 are better at higher ISOs, have video capability etc. The D3s is as good in low light/at high ISOs as the 750 but its truly a camera for news, sports and event shooting for working professionals. The 750 is a better choice for most other purposes at that price point.</p>

[dennisbarnett]

<p>Thanks, Stephen. I appreciate your input.</p>